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NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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6 hours ago, 10X said:

I don't think anyone has crossed that bridge yet.   N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c says the permit is automatically approved if the PD takes no action in 60 days, but doesn't address what happens next or what time limit may apply to the court.   

Just start carrying.

If a cop asks to see your permit quote N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c to him, or her..

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4 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

A friend on another Forum went to the Nappen seminar yesterday. He reported that Nappen is hot on the carry in car issue and Nappen expects it to be resolved in 2 week given it is a 2A and also a Civil Rights violation...I don't have anymore details as I was not at the seminar, but if someone else was there they can weigh in...Really great news but we pretty much new it wouldn't stand very long given it is so crazy.

That is about all he said about it. I was there. 2 weeks we should have an update.

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5 minutes ago, Bomber said:

Just start carrying.

If a cop asks to see your permit quote N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c to him, or her..

That should help at the trial; but I don't think it will impress the arresting officer.  

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10 minutes ago, Bomber said:

Just start carrying.

If a cop asks to see your permit quote N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c to him, or her..

You need to be approved by the police AND superior court.

c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry.

 

No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun.

 

Each application form shall be accompanied by a written certification of justifiable need to carry a handgun, which shall be under oath and, in the case of a private citizen, shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible, the applicant shall corroborate the existence of any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of the incidents to the appropriate law enforcement agencies.

 

If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing.

 

d. Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun in accordance with the provisions of subsection c. of this section. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes the handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.

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Its great to see so many new people to this forum.  Through this topic.  I suggest you all. Try some idpa.  Uspsa or icore matches.  It will. Improve your firearms shooting abilities.   It will humble you in your abilities.  And make you more aware. And more proficient 

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4 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

Its great to see so many new people to this forum.  Through this topic.  I suggest you all. Try some idpa.  Uspsa or icore matches.  It will. Improve your firearms shooting abilities.   It will humble you in your abilities.  And make you more aware. And more proficient 

Sure. I've been looking to do that. No idea who offers it up here. If you could point me in that direction I would appreciate it. 

I am also going for my instructor certs so I can (among other things) qualify people for their permit to carry. 

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2 hours ago, joeg said:

What is the carry in car issue?

If you look through the older pages in this thread you will see that Ocean and Monmouth County have issued permits with an insane court order. One of the many restrictions was that they are not allowed to be inside of a car while carrying their firearm. They have to remove the firearm and unload it and put it in their trunk before getting in the car. 
 

Edit: I didn’t realize there was another page, someone already answered the question. 

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37 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

Sure. I've been looking to do that. No idea who offers it up here. If you could point me in that direction I would appreciate it. 

Shongum USPSA, Phillipsburg IDPA, Ontelaunee USPSA (PA), Easton IDPA (PA).  Or go down to Old Bridge USPSA (Worth it)

https://www.practiscore.com/

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3 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Shongum USPSA, Phillipsburg IDPA, Ontelaunee USPSA (PA), Easton IDPA (PA).  Or go down to Old Bridge USPSA (Worth it)

https://www.practiscore.com/

You beat me to it    Exactly.  Theres alot around you.  Contact me or krdshrk.  If you’re ok with that nick.  Or radiogunner.  Pizza bob is the ambassador for new shooters in the shooting sports.  If you want i can give you his email address 

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36 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

So basically they're gonna delay by leaving an "objection period", then once that runs out you get issued your permit?

Nobody knows what happens after 30 days in the courthouse with no action by the judge. 
 

But I know one thing for certain:  I do not want to get stopped carrying a gun without a written permit and have to rely on arguing to the Police Officer, prosecutor, judge, jury or appeals court that I should not be convicted because the judge waited more than 30 days to sign my permit. 

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5 hours ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

Nobody knows what happens after 30 days in the courthouse with no action by the judge. 
 

But I know one thing for certain:  I do not want to get stopped carrying a gun without a written permit and have to rely on arguing to the Police Officer, prosecutor, judge, jury or appeals court that I should not be convicted because the judge waited more than 30 days to sign my permit. 

There would be no legal argument to be made. Nothing in written law says that if the Superior Court doesn't issue your permit after receiving your application within 30 days you are automatically issued one or that you can carry without a permit. You will simply be charged with unlawful possession of a handgun if caught.

The 60 day time frame for police stations is written into law however nobody really knows how that works in practice. Meaning, what do you do if they take longer? Show up to the courthouse with receipts and ask them to process? Good luck with that peasant!

If the 60 day police time frame and 30 day court timeline really worked than Jay Factor would have automatically had a permit in his hand after his 2019 application. I can't remember the exact number of days but it was over 200 days for a denial if I remember correctly. Definitely substantially longer than 60 days plus 30 days.

Again, NJs timelines are meaningless. They have been blowing them off for years and they will continue to do so untill automatic issuance is law or there are consequences for not meeting their timelines.

Someone who applies for their permit and than their police station goes over 60 days will need to file a lawsuit in order to get a NJ court to lay out some type of resolution on how this works in practice. 

Someone may also be able to contact the NJ supreme court about what to do if the 30 day court timeline is blown. However because this is just a directive and is not written into law, I doubt anything meaningful will come of this. Maybe I'm wrong, and hopefully so.

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10 hours ago, Golf battery said:

Its great to see so many new people to this forum.  Through this topic.  I suggest you all. Try some idpa.  Uspsa or icore matches.  It will. Improve your firearms shooting abilities.   It will humble you in your abilities.  And make you more aware. And more proficient 

USPSA not only helps you with your shooting skills and situational awareness. ITS A BOAT LOAD OF FUN ! There are not as many matches in NNJ as there used to be prior covid and the  10 round mag law.

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4 hours ago, nooch450 said:

There would be no legal argument to be made. Nothing in written law says that if the Superior Court doesn't issue your permit after receiving your application within 30 days you are automatically issued one or that you can carry without a permit. You will simply be charged with unlawful possession of a handgun if caught.

The 60 day time frame for police stations is written into law however nobody really knows how that works in practice. Meaning, what do you do if they take longer? Show up to the courthouse with receipts and ask them to process? Good luck with that peasant!

If the 60 day police time frame and 30 day court timeline really worked than Jay Factor would have automatically had a permit in his hand after his 2019 application. I can't remember the exact number of days but it was over 200 days for a denial if I remember correctly. Definitely substantially longer than 60 days plus 30 days.

Again, NJs timelines are meaningless. They have been blowing them off for years and they will continue to do so untill automatic issuance is law or there are consequences for not meeting their timelines.

Someone who applies for their permit and than their police station goes over 60 days will need to file a lawsuit in order to get a NJ court to lay out some type of resolution on how this works in practice. 

Someone may also be able to contact the NJ supreme court about what to do if the 30 day court timeline is blown. However because this is just a directive and is not written into law, I doubt anything meaningful will come of this. Maybe I'm wrong, and hopefully so.

There is a possible as applied Due Process violation.  
1. Statute says applicant must get a permit to carry outside the home. 

2. Applicant does everything the statute requires. 

3. The State fails to issue applicant a permit for no legitimate reason. 

4. Applicant gets charged for violating a law that was impossible for applicant to follow while exercising a Right guaranteed by the Second Amendment. 

This could be argued as an “As Applied” Due Process violation, and would have a strong chance of success if considered fairly on the merits. 

But of course, applicant would be in a world of hurt for the years it would take to get this resolved, and success is not a given. 

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4 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Why is the prosecutor's office involved?  Show me where in the law or A.C. the prosecutor is involved.

The judge has no independent investigatory powers. So the judge asks the prosecutor’s office to investigate. Under the Directive the prosecutor has 14 days to report back to the judge, and assuming the prosecutor got the application immediately upon its presentation to the Superior Court the judge then has 16 days to appove the application or hold a hearing. After the hearing the judge has 14 days to render a decision. 

Of course, this system was set up to deal with applications for employment as an armed security guard and not a post-Bruen world. But it is what it is 

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1 hour ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

There is a possible as applied Due Process violation.  
1. Statute says applicant must get a permit to carry outside the home. 

2. Applicant does everything the statute requires. 

3. The State fails to issue applicant a permit for no legitimate reason. 

4. Applicant gets charged for violating a law that was impossible for applicant to follow while exercising a Right guaranteed by the Second Amendment. 

This could be argued as an “As Applied” Due Process violation, and would have a strong chance of success if considered fairly on the merits. 

But of course, applicant would be in a world of hurt for the years it would take to get this resolved, and success is not a given. 

Keep in mind Bruen explicitly states that each state can have a permitting process, but it can't be a "burden" or take a long time.. 

By those terms you could argue a violation of civil rights, and that you carrying a firearm is constitutionally protected without the permit. 

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13 hours ago, Golf battery said:

Its great to see so many new people to this forum.  Through this topic.  I suggest you all. Try some idpa.  Uspsa or icore matches.  It will. Improve your firearms shooting abilities.   It will humble you in your abilities.  And make you more aware. And more proficient 

While not getting into the drivel of gun-games vs. training; action shooting WILL do a few things that are beneficial to CCW holders.

Improve gun handling, muzzle awareness, safety, etc..

Make you more comfortable with holster draw and reholstering, reloading, malfunctions

Vet your choice of equipment/handguns

Expose you to seldom practiced scenarios (shooting while moving, moving targets, low/no light, kneeling/prone, strong/support hand, etc..

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10 hours ago, nooch450 said:

The 60 day time frame for police stations is written into law however nobody really knows how that works in practice. Meaning, what do you do if they take longer? Show up to the courthouse with receipts and ask them to process? 

 

You find out where the Judge lives and protest outside their residence.

I'm sure you will be treated just as nicely as the mobs were at the SC justice's homes in July.

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