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NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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15 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The statutes and Admin Code are separate texts. 

The Statute is:

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.
    2C:58-4.   a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by subsection e. of N.J.S.2C:39-5. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.
 
   All permits to carry handguns shall expire two years from the date of issuance or, in the case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of his employment by the company occurring prior thereto whichever is earlier in time, and they may thereafter be renewed every two years in the same manner and subject to the same conditions as in the case of original applications.
 
   b.   Application forms. All applications for permits to carry handguns, and all applications for renewal of permits, shall be made on the forms prescribed by the superintendent. Each application shall set forth the full name, date of birth, sex, residence, occupation, place of business or employment, and physical description of the applicant, and any other information the superintendent may prescribe for the determination of the applicant's eligibility for a permit and for the proper enforcement of this chapter. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath, and shall be indorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least three years preceding the date of application, and who shall certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior.
 
   c.   Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry.
 
   No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun.
 
   Each application form shall be accompanied by a written certification of justifiable need to carry a handgun, which shall be under oath and, in the case of a private citizen, shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible, the applicant shall corroborate the existence of any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of the incidents to the appropriate law enforcement agencies.
 
   If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing.
 
   d.   Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun in accordance with the provisions of subsection c. of this section. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes the handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.
 
   e.   Appeals from denial of applications. Any person aggrieved by the denial by the chief police officer or the superintendent of approval for a permit to carry a handgun may request a hearing in the Superior Court of the county in which he resides or in any county in which he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident, by filing a written request for a hearing within 30 days of the denial. Copies of the request shall be served upon the superintendent, the county prosecutor, and the chief police officer of the municipality where the applicant resides, if he is a resident of this State. The hearing shall be held within 30 days of the filing of the request, and no formal pleading or filing fee shall be required. Appeals from the determination at the hearing shall be in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State.
 
   If the superintendent or chief police officer approves an application and the Superior Court denies the application and refuses to issue a permit, the applicant may appeal the denial in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State.
 
   f.   Revocation of permits. Any permit issued under this section shall be void at the time the holder thereof becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, and the holder of a void permit shall immediately surrender the permit to the superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority.
 
   Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing upon notice to the holder, if the court finds that the holder is no longer qualified for the issuance of a permit. The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the superintendent, or any citizen may apply to the court at any time for the revocation of any permit issued pursuant to this section.
 
   amended 1979, c.179, s.12; 1981, c.135, ss.1,3,4 2018, c.37, s.1.
 
 
 

Ok.. so I'm not confusing statute and administrative code.

Section d is part of the statute, not the administrative code.

Got it. 

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24 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

Isn't that what goes on in the about 25 states that have Constitutional Carry?

well let’s take a look.  Can you carry at federally regulated areas like airports and court bldgs?  no.  Arizona?  can’t carry in schools, liquor stores or any posted place.  Kentucky?  bars, liquor stores, and some government bldgs.   North Dakota, no bars, liquor stores, or state bldgs. 

all 25 states have some sort of restriction. 

Constitutional Carry does not = unrestricted carry. 

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45 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, and not to turn this into a "why would/wouldn't you carry .22" but those are the real people who are beat considering the hollow point .22s do the best on ballistics test, aren't they?

I’m not sure what you’re asking but yes it does suck that we can’t carry 22 hollow point 

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1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

I would carry it.

Also, it is used by one of the biggest agencies that actually does test the ammo they issue - it is the current duty ammo for the FBI.

Odd the fbi guys I know and shoot with are issued federal…..but I haven’t seen them in a couple months so I googled  in Jan 2022 the contracts went to federal &speer

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/07/federal-and-speer-ammunition-awarded-prestigious-fbi-contracts/amp/

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10 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

I’m not sure what you’re asking but yes it does suck that we can’t carry 22 hollow point 

Sorry I wrote that terribly, it's been a long day. What I was basically eluding to was that .22 round nose isn't going to have much of the stopping power of hollow points so it sucks particularly for .22 edc people.

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4 hours ago, ATFspymen said:

Yeah its on the letter its gn-unn-108-22 that 3 digit number is the amount of apps the courts received. Im trying to figure out what number the court is at curretnly in the approval process but Im not in that facebook group.

I’m very close to your number. Fingers crossed that are permits are issued at the same time.

So close!

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2 hours ago, pjd832 said:

Odd the fbi guys I know and shoot with are issued federal…..but I haven’t seen them in a couple months so I googled  in Jan 2022 the contracts went to federal &speer

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/07/federal-and-speer-ammunition-awarded-prestigious-fbi-contracts/amp/

Hornady retains the primary duty ammo contract. I did have some trouble in finding what the micro-service contract went to.

From another website:

According to Federal, the new award will keep 35,000 employees trained and ready for duty. Federal and Speer were the only brands to receive awards in all four ammunition categories—Service (full-size), Service (micro), Reduced-Lead Training, and Frangible. Federal and Speer were the primary winners for the training and frangible round contracts and also received secondary designations for the full-size and micro-service rounds.

Either way, the FBI testing protocol, while exhaustive in its requirements, doesn't necessarily equate to better performance in your average SD scenario. I'm pretty certain that any of the popular HP bullets (Gold Dot, HST, Critical Defense, Critical Duty, Ranger, etc.) will do equally well. One only has to look at the everchanging duty handguns to know that criteria can be very vague.

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Gentlemen, although I enjoy discussing carry ammo, I hardly think that is the point of this thread. We have already had several complaints about off-topic discussions making it hard for people just coming on to follow the pertinent information of the intent of this thread, as well as the Moderator weighing in as such....Usually I am  not a party pooper :-) in this regard but with a 103 "pages" and no end in sight I think it makes sense on this thread especially.

You can always start a "Carry-Ammo-in-NJ" thread right "next door" which I think many will be interested in including myself.

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18 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

We officially have permits being issued out of Middlesex. This is from FB group Middlesex County CCW

 

SmartSelect_20220930_140146_Samsung Internet.jpg

This is both good and terrible news at the same time! I am glad that Middlesex is starting the issuance process but, Middlesex is one of the most populated areas in NJ and I know the court has thousands of applications. AT THE CURRENT RATE THIER MOVING IT COULD TAKE YEARS FOR MANY OF US TO GET OUR PTC.I am happy for those 10 people but, it's their issuance rate is very concerning to me. At least it confirms my conversation with Anna regarding pick up at the courthouse instead of the PD.....

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2 minutes ago, marlintag said:

I wanted to thank you for posting these as I am not on that facebook page. My PD sent my application to the court on the same date, no call yet!

No problem at all my man.

There are so many channels pouring out info, but this forum acts as my home base and I know a lot in here aren't in fb so just want to help where I can.

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3 hours ago, marlintag said:

This is both good and terrible news at the same time! I am glad that Middlesex is starting the issuance process but, Middlesex is one of the most populated areas in NJ and I know the court has thousands of applications. AT THE CURRENT RATE THIER MOVING IT COULD TAKE YEARS FOR MANY OF US TO GET OUR PTC.I am happy for those 10 people but, it's their issuance rate is very concerning to me. At least it confirms my conversation with Anna regarding pick up at the courthouse instead of the PD.....

I saw these this morning. So they really have no obligation of time?

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On 9/27/2022 at 2:33 PM, Combat Auto said:

Some of their attorneys (like Napan) are also on retainer to ANJRPC...I am not sure if they are being retained by LawShield to fight the carry issues we are dealing with or any crazy gun laws we deal with in NJ. Alternative l am (sure) they are retained by ANJRPC to fight the carry issues.

As others stated, LawShield cover SD events and equipment issues. I do not think they have a mission to correct bad carry laws explicit to NJ. As such, Napen wears two hates one for LS and one for ANJRPC. Of course there are synergies here which he can leverage.

ANJRPC is the best proponent we have here, not the NRA, and not LS, imo. Although I am a member of all 3, all my add--on donations go to ANJRPC - they are vital to our survival long-term as gun owners in NJ.

Still I joined LS a few weeks ago (in essence they are on "retainer" to their members for SD/equipment charges), I reasoned, for 130$ a year I think it is foolish not to.

Smart man!  It’s a small price to pay for defending yourself in a crackpot state like NJ.  

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39 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I saw these this morning. So they really have no obligation of time?

I think we have to be realistic.  We can’t squeeze juice from a raisin.  There’s only so much that they can do at once.  I would think after the first year, they would have ramped up for the required personnel and streamlined the process.  Than again, that’s just my wishful thinking.  Government agencies are slow to begin with, and now we’re asking them to do some extra work.  I’m sure it’s not going over well, especially since most county jobs are union jobs. 

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1 minute ago, LeaveNJ said:

I think we have to be realistic.  We can’t squeeze juice from a raisin.  There’s only so much that they can do at once.  I would think after the first year, they would have ramped up for the required personnel and streamlined the process.  Than again, that’s just my wishful thinking.  Government agencies are slow to begin with, and now we’re asking them to do some extra work.  I’m sure it’s not going over well, especially since most county jobs are union jobs. 

They won't. The judiciary is going to press the legislator to cut them from the process. 

There will be no stream lining anything, our courts barely operate as is with respect to their normal volume of cases/hearings. 

 

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On 9/29/2022 at 12:23 PM, pjd832 said:

I have a “friend” that applied for a non resident to the Woodstown state police barracks back in July, just for fun as he works for a federal agency and walked into the barracks with 2 weapons on him…..the references were just called 1 each day yesterday being the finaL … as opposed to one right after the other?  the money order still not cashed 

So this "friend", who is a federal officer and can carry in any state under H.R. 218, came and applied just to tie up the Woodstown State Police officers time for fun?  So they have another application to process, background check to do, references to contact, etc... for no good reason and will take that much longer to get to us who live in this area?  Your "friend" can ingest a satchel of Richards and then go fornicate himself.  

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45 minutes ago, Regular Guy said:

So this "friend", who is a federal officer and can carry in any state under H.R. 218, came and applied just to tie up the Woodstown State Police officers time for fun?  So they have another application to process, background check to do, references to contact, etc... for no good reason and will take that much longer to get to us who live in this area?  Your "friend" can ingest a satchel of Richards and then go fornicate himself.  

Come on, thats not cool. Its gonna take a long time no matter what. I've been waiting 25 years (since I was 18) and some of you even longer. Everyone has a right to apply and we should SUPPORT that.

In time we'll all see, we're modern pioneers. The ones that take the risk of applying and getting denied or restricted before the process is forced to be more Constitution-compliant. Its simply a long painful process right now and one person testing the system isn't going to mess it up for anyone.

Not an attack on you, I'd just say simmer down a little.

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1 hour ago, Regular Guy said:

So this "friend", who is a federal officer and can carry in any state under H.R. 218, came and applied just to tie up the Woodstown State Police officers time for fun?  So they have another application to process, background check to do, references to contact, etc... for no good reason and will take that much longer to get to us who live in this area?  Your "friend" can ingest a satchel of Richards and then go fornicate himself.  

Yes he did, and I’m sure he would invite you to lead the way on your suggestions…. 

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9 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

So this "friend", who is a federal officer and can carry in any state under H.R. 218, came and applied just to tie up the Woodstown State Police officers time for fun?  So they have another application to process, background check to do, references to contact, etc... for no good reason and will take that much longer to get to us who live in this area?  Your "friend" can ingest a satchel of Richards and then go fornicate himself.  

Does this surprise you? A Federal officer wasting government based resources, and screwing the little guy at the same time....

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On 9/29/2022 at 11:36 AM, JRT said:

what exactly do you find unacceptable? anyone should be able to carry a gun onto a military base or into a superior court building?  to a giants game section 222, row 6 at metlife?

 Some guy who has an “official” clean criminal and mental history check, fancies himself a good shot after hitting 42 of 50 rounds on a Q target -  has a second amendment right to strap on a gun and go anywhere he wants, anytime he wants?

There are reasonable limits to everything in a civilized society.  

 

 

Shall not be....

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9 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

So this "friend", who is a federal officer and can carry in any state under H.R. 218, came and applied just to tie up the Woodstown State Police officers time for fun?  So they have another application to process, background check to do, references to contact, etc... for no good reason and will take that much longer to get to us who live in this area?  Your "friend" can ingest a satchel of Richards and then go fornicate himself.  

This makes no sense to me either. Every active Leo that I know carry in whatever state they want. 

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That is correct, I asked him why bother.. he said 2 parts 1 he wanted to see them deny him, 2 to have a year 1 nj permit as a collectable….. not sure why some people are so pissed off  seems as though the more people applying/issued  the better

I know of several people that are able to carry nationwide due to employment that have applied… in case people didn’t know…not every NJ cop knows the minutia of the carry rules under the federal statues, and more than a few have had issues when carrying in nj and contact with nj leo..

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