NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[RadioGunner 218]

17 minutes ago, joeg said:

Thanks, so the PD does the investigation then forwards to the court - what determines if there is a hearing or not?  Is it the PD investigation or does the court do another investigation?

Entirely up to the judge. The prosecutor, if involved, may recommend one. But it’s up to the judge. 

[SJ Guns 36]

1 hour ago, joeg said:

Thanks, so the PD does the investigation then forwards to the court - what determines if there is a hearing or not?  Is it the PD investigation or does the court do another investigation?

 

1 hour ago, RadioGunner said:

Entirely up to the judge. The prosecutor, if involved, may recommend one. But it’s up to the judge. 

And some counties are holding hearings, some are not.  In some counties the prosecutor's office is involved, in some counties they are not.  Every county is doing their own thing.  Hopefully, it all gets settled soon and there will be one system.

[RadioGunner 218]

On 10/7/2022 at 10:17 PM, Mike77 said:

But....IS the gun a restriction? it doesn't say it. Restrictions say NONE. Per 2C, permit is good for all guns. The gun typed on back is just something they are going....it's not exactly the law as it is written 

Well I am not going to be a test case. So I’ll qualify with the guns I sang to carry. The order says that particular gun. 

[Bushmaster1313 61]

1 hour ago, RadioGunner said:

Well I am not going to be a test case. So I’ll qualify with the guns I sang to carry. The order says that particular gun. 

You do not want to be a test case unless you do it correctly.

For example, with the  complaint for a test case you would swear out a declaration that you intend to carry more than the gun(s) listed on the permit. That way the case can go forward but you stay out of jail. 

[marlintag 223]

Anyone get their PTC in Middlesex County?

Next week it will be 44 days in the court for me..

[JackDaWack 2,895]

3 hours ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

You do not want to be a test case unless you do it correctly.

For example, with the  complaint for a test case you would swear out a declaration that you intend to carry more than the gun(s) listed on the permit. That way the case can go forward but you stay out of jail. 

How so? 

A declaration means absolutely nothing, it actually could be worse since you are now conspiring to break the law and are notifying the authorities to such illegal activities. 

A case moves forward one of two ways, either you petition the court its violating your rights(and maybe they accept the case), which now requires you to hire a lawyer to petition and litigate the case, OR are charged with violating the law. The only "correct way" is the former, the latter is exactly what would occur under your proposal. 

Either way you are paying a shit ton of money for a lawyer. 

Under NO circumstances should you ever admit you plan on breaking the law, or are already breaking it. 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[ATFspymen 15]

Picked up my permit from Union County from my local PD.

No restrictions is checked only thing is my handgun model and serial# is printed on the card.

My PD mailed it over and was recived the by the courts on Aug 22nd they approved on 9/30 and sat for a few days till last Thursday when one of the probabtion officers mailed out a batch of them.

Took a little longer than I wished but still pretty painless after getting all the documentation filled out. No resistance from my local PD.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Downtownv 1,774]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:03 AM, LineItem said:

StrikeForce has already contacted me to tell me that Dan may want to call to discuss. I didn't realize there was latitude for those 14 extra days, so I'm watching the clock and waiting to see if Strike Force has some input. 

How do I get in touch with these people.

Submitted ALL paperwork 7/26, told Town forwarded 9/1 to county judge. it's 10/11/22 not a word!

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[PoppaPops 16]

14 minutes ago, ATFspymen said:

Picked up my permit from Union County from my local PD.

No restrictions is checked only thing is my handgun model and serial# is printed on the card.

My PD mailed it over and was recived the by the courts on Aug 22nd they approved on 9/30 and sat for a few days till last Thursday when one of the probabtion officers mailed out a batch of them.

Took a little longer than I wished but still pretty painless after getting all the documentation filled out. No resistance from my local PD.

Finally, congrats!!

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[JackDaWack 2,895]

34 minutes ago, samiam said:

Premeditation is an aggravating factor in many offenses, is it not?

Yes, but I'm not sure that applies here, but why would you ever notify authorities of your Intent to break a law? It can only hurt you, and in this case if you don't win in court it could be disastrous for sentencing. 

At that point you can't even argue if charged that the law is unclear and confusing when it says "one permit for all handguns owned". 

[Odysseus 2]

My guess is that those choosing to carry handguns not listed on the Judge's order would be subject to contempt of court 2c:29-9. That is, assuming an order was given with the permit. Doesn't matter if the permit has no restrictions, the Judges order stands on it's own.

Seems that Judges do have some authority to place restrictions on our permits, so long as those restrictions are in conformance with the law and our rights.

While I'm all for questioning authority, I don't think this particular avenue is worth pursuing.

[RadioGunner 218]

 

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

How so? 

A declaration means absolutely nothing, it actually could be worse since you are now conspiring to break the law and are notifying the authorities to such illegal activities. 

A case moves forward one of two ways, either you petition the court its violating your rights(and maybe they accept the case), which now requires you to hire a lawyer to petition and litigate the case, OR are charged with violating the law. The only "correct way" is the former, the latter is exactly what would occur under your proposal. 

Either way you are paying a shit ton of money for a lawyer. 

Under NO circumstances should you ever admit you plan on breaking the law, or are already breaking it. 

Precisely. Also I would hate to have to defensively use my firearm, have a good shoot and then get charged on a technicality. 

That said we should be fighting this. I am happy to be a plaintiff, but I don't want to commit a felony to do so 

[marlintag 223]

1 hour ago, Downtownv said:

How do I get in touch with these people.

Submitted ALL paperwork 7/26, told Town forwarded 9/1 to county judge. it's 10/11/22 not a word!

strikeforce isn't doing anything about it... I have emailed and called a few times. I am sure some people in my county are past 44 days at the court level. I'm already at 36 days in the court and PD had my application for 60 days, 96 days total strikeforce hasn't uttered a word to me so far....

[Bushmaster1313 61]

4 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

How so? 

A declaration means absolutely nothing, it actually could be worse since you are now conspiring to break the law and are notifying the authorities to such illegal activities. 

A case moves forward one of two ways, either you petition the court its violating your rights(and maybe they accept the case), which now requires you to hire a lawyer to petition and litigate the case, OR are charged with violating the law. The only "correct way" is the former, the latter is exactly what would occur under your proposal. 

Either way you are paying a shit ton of money for a lawyer. 

Under NO circumstances should you ever admit you plan on breaking the law, or are already breaking it. 

In the “test” case now being litigated in upstate New York the first complaint was thrown out because the plaintiffs did not prove they were injured by the new laws. The second case held up, and got some very favorable results last week, because the same plaintiff swore that he would carry in the prohibited sensitive places but for the fact that the new law would make him a felon. 
 

but this was a carefully done up test case with experienced attorneys  Do not try this on your own. 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Mr.Stu 1,916]

I just got an email from Hunterdon Superior Court. They have re-issued my court order listing the additional handguns I sent in. It is now almost 3 full pages instead of the page and a half it was before. It is exactly the same, except the list of guns is more than 3 times as long.

[pjd832 146]

9 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I just got an email from Hunterdon Superior Court. They have re-issued my court order listing the additional handguns I sent in. It is now almost 3 full pages instead of the page and a half it was before. It is exactly the same, except the list of guns is more than 3 times as long.

So a serious question…. You guys have to carry that/those pages as well as the permit correct? Assuming it would breed to be originals not copies…. How does one carry those without them degrading? Mens European carryall?

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

14 minutes ago, pjd832 said:

So a serious question…. You guys have to carry that/those pages as well as the permit correct? Assuming it would breed to be originals not copies…. How does one carry those without them degrading? Mens European carryall?

The court order says I must carry my permit with me. It does not say I must carry the court order. I will have an electronic copy I can access from my phone if necessary, but I am not going to be carrying the CO around with me. No murse needed.

[pjd832 146]

14 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The court order says I must carry my permit with me. It does not say I must carry the court order. I will have an electronic copy I can access from my phone if necessary, but I am not going to be carrying the CO around with me. No murse needed.

I was sure I read in the 112 pages several peoples letters stating must be carried along with permit… so another inconsistency, then if you’re not carrying the court order papers saying which pistols you’re granted permission from the overlords to carry is that not an issue?

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

8 minutes ago, pjd832 said:

I was sure I read in the 112 pages several peoples letters stating must be carried along with permit… so another inconsistency, then if you’re not carrying the court order papers saying which pistols you’re granted permission from the overlords to carry is that not an issue?

Maybe. I don't know.

[LineItem 36]

5 hours ago, Downtownv said:

How do I get in touch with these people.

Submitted ALL paperwork 7/26, told Town forwarded 9/1 to county judge. it's 10/11/22 not a word!

[email protected] is the address - you can write up your timeline and see if they can assist. At the very least it gives them ammunition to use to leverage the system.

[LineItem 36]

2 hours ago, samiam said:

As noted previously, my 60 days passed on Saturday, October 8. Yesterday I contacted the Cape May County court, and confirmed that my application had not been forwarded to them by NJSP. Today, I called NJSP Woodbine station and spoke to a Trooper Dixon, who apparently is on the firearms detail there. Just as happened with my call to check status after 30 days with the Trooper who answered the firearms extension at that time, she refused to give me any specific information. The only difference from the male trooper I spoke to previously, is that he used the phrase "the applications are all being processed", and she would only say "we're working on it". It was worse than that, too. After I introduced myself and told her I wanted to check status on my "PtC" application (I enunciated very clearly) she asked for a moment to "check the computer". She came back on after about a minute, said she accessed my application, and gave me some strange answer. When I questioned further, it was clear she was giving me a response about a Permit to PURCHASE application. I don't even have one of those in, and I would be extremely surprised if Woodbine has one outstanding from someone else with the same name as me. After I clarified that I was inquiring about Permit to Carry, she asked to check her computer again, but was only off the phone for about 5 seconds before telling me "I found your application and we're working on it".  My conclusion is that she probably lied to me about checking for and finding any application. It was pretty obvious that after I corrected her on the kind of application I was asking about, she didn't check anything, she followed up far too quickly. This trooper was touted to me by a member of one of the FB advocacy groups as being "very helpful". I think that some of us have become far too fond of the Kool-Aid. It got late, so I won't be emailing my nice letter to NJSP Superintendent Colonel Patrick J. Callahan today, but it will go certified mail tomorrow, along with copies to NJFIU Woodbine, NJFIU Trenton, AG Matthew Platkin, ANJRPC Strike Force, CNJFO, and Jay Factor (I sent Jay a copy by email tonight). I decided to leave in my reference to the statutes on official oaths of office(in Title 41) and the section that classifies the deliberate violation of such oaths as an act of perjury (I wrote in the letter that I was providing that information "in his interests"). This won't make me any friends in high places, but I this point, I could care less about that. 
 

The most important thing to remember is that the machine we're dealing with are not our friends. They may be cordial; but they seem to almost universally have contempt for anyone who wants permits. I've had some friendly conversations with the cogs, but inevitably they out themselves by action or lack thereof. 

 

[RadioGunner 218]

6 hours ago, Downtownv said:

How do I get in touch with these people.

Submitted ALL paperwork 7/26, told Town forwarded 9/1 to county judge. it's 10/11/22 not a word!

What county? 

[Mike77 169]

Not sure how if no restrictions is checked, and they type a serial number on back, that is law. They could type a vin# on the back, i dont see how it means a thing. 

[pjd832 146]

6 minutes ago, Mike77 said:

Not sure how if no restrictions is checked, and they type a serial number on back, that is law. They could type a vin# on the back, i dont see how it means a thing. 

Scroll back through all the posts where people posted their court orders said only firearms listed can be carried..and said person was to have court order and permit on them when carrying…not saying it’s right or legal..but until it’s challenged and shot down it’s “the rules”…. Would hate to be the first one that civilly disobeyed and gets hemmed up…nj coffers are deeper than most average joes bank account for court processes  

just like the other firearm processes there’s a lot of differences from location to location no real consistency aside from procrastination/stalling/slowing process