Carolina Native 22 Posted October 14, 2022 11 hours ago, SJ Guns said: Not a lawyer but reasonable suspicion is that a crime has been committed. Possession with a permit is not a crime so no reasonable suspicion. +1 Spot on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 14, 2022 11 hours ago, SJ Guns said: Not a lawyer but reasonable suspicion is that a crime has been committed. Possession with a permit is not a crime so no reasonable suspicion. Good chance, if you have a permit, you aren't a criminal! In fact, if you have one, from what i seen in other states, cops are ok. You tell them you have permit, they ask if it's on you, and ask to not reach.... Done. 11 hours ago, SJ Guns said: Not a lawyer but reasonable suspicion is that a crime has been committed. Possession with a permit is not a crime so no reasonable suspicion. Good chance, if you have a permit, you aren't a criminal! In fact, if you have one, from what i seen in other states, cops are ok. You tell them you have permit, they ask if it's on you, and ask to not reach.... Done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted October 14, 2022 Please Keep Contacting Legislators! October 14, 2022. On Monday, October 17 at 10:00 a.m., the New Jerey Assembly Judiciary Committee is scheduled to consider A4769 – legislation designed to do an end-run around the U.S. Supreme Court’s ground-breaking Bruen decision and destroy right to carry in the Garden State, among many other things. Listen to the hearing by clicking here at 10 a.m. on Monday, October 17. Find Assembly Judiciary Committee and click to listen. Among many other things, this legislation would impermissibly: -Ban carry in common public places by labeling them as “sensitive places.” Includes parks, beaches, restaurants, theaters, stadiums, arenas, and many other common public places.; -Ban carry inside one’s own car; -Bans carry at public gatherings; -Ban carry on all private property automatically, unless the property owner specifically posts notices specifically allowing it; -Significantly increase fees for purchaser credentials and carry permits, discriminating against low-income citizens; -Mandate liability insurance (which may not even be available) as a pre-condition to exercising carry rights; -Mandate a new training requirement beyond the already-difficult one that has existed for many decades; -Allow towns and cities to invent their own unique and inconsistent rules banning carry; -Limit carry to holster-only, with retention strap (no purses, fanny packs, briefcases, standard holsters without strap, or other recognized modes of on-body or off-body carry); -Use prior speech (like online posts) as a basis to deny purchase and carry credentials; -Allow denial of credentials based on purely subjective factors like someone’s “character” or “temperament.” PLEASE IMMEDIATELY CLICK HERE TO CONTACT EVERY NJ LEGISLATOR. Tell them to PLEASE VOTE NO ON A4769 /S3214 ATTACKING RIGHT TO CARRY IN VIOLATION OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT’S BRUEN DECISION. THE SUPREME COURT HAS SPOKEN, AND RIGHT TO CARRY MAY NO LONGER BE DISRUPTED OR INFRINGED BY STATE LEGISLATURES OR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. ALSO, MICRO-MANAGING METHODS OF CARRY, AND DENYING PERMITS BASED ON PRIOR SPEECH AND “CHARACTER,” ARE ILL-CONCEIVED AND UNLAWFUL. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 12:38 PM, marlintag said: Or we can sit and do nothing...... I don't think there is a right or wrong in this situation, our apps can languish at the court level for months maybe even years who knows! I appreciate where you're coming from, and you're an adult so you can do whatever you want, but IMO patience is an important thing to exercise right now. Until June of this year there was ZERO carry in NJ. The 2A groups have been instrumental in making Bruen a reality, so to suggest that they're sitting around doing nothing is kind of disingenuous IMO. They can't individually chase every one of the THOUSANDS of applications that goes over a 90 day threshold. Strikeforce was setup so they could understand where to focus efforts, but it will be a long process. Those thousands of applications are flowing in to jurisdictions who previously have processed none, so it will take time to get to a steady state. Some seem to be moving better than others (and some not at all), but the process has started. I submitted my paperwork in mid July, so I'll hit 90 days soon, but going in I had prepared myself for months. I wanted to be an early submitter (like you) to make sure that townships and courts HAD to start the process rolling. You're helping to pave the road... 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bzerk 15 Posted October 14, 2022 Guess we know what further guidance these counties who haven't issued yet are waiting for. Still not one permit out of Somerset County. Guess they are waiting for the Dems to write their own laws and deny 1000's of us our given rights. Can't make this shit up other than hey it 's NJ. You have no rights. Very sad state we live in. 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrAceJD 21 Posted October 14, 2022 I believe the proposed legislation also has a requirement that there be an interview with the Chief of Police. Seems like a benign request although depending on volume, not sure how disruptive it will be to their calendar. I do wonder though as to whether the seemingly high volume of pending applications will be kicked back if this legislation passes before the permits are issued under the old rules? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 472 Posted October 14, 2022 ***DELETED*** 3 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted October 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, samiam said: My letter to Colonel Patrick J. Callahan, Good luck. Let us know if you get a reply. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marlintag 223 Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, 124gr9mm said: I appreciate where you're coming from, and you're an adult so you can do whatever you want, but IMO patience is an important thing to exercise right now. Until June of this year there was ZERO carry in NJ. The 2A groups have been instrumental in making Bruen a reality, so to suggest that they're sitting around doing nothing is kind of disingenuous IMO. They can't individually chase every one of the THOUSANDS of applications that goes over a 90 day threshold. Strikeforce was setup so they could understand where to focus efforts, but it will be a long process. Those thousands of applications are flowing in to jurisdictions who previously have processed none, so it will take time to get to a steady state. Some seem to be moving better than others (and some not at all), but the process has started. I submitted my paperwork in mid July, so I'll hit 90 days soon, but going in I had prepared myself for months. I wanted to be an early submitter (like you) to make sure that townships and courts HAD to start the process rolling. You're helping to pave the road... thanks, I wanted to be the "tip of the spear". You have a point, I guess I can wait a few more days/weeks etc. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 472 Posted October 14, 2022 ***DELETED*** 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 472 Posted October 14, 2022 ***DELETED*** 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,647 Posted October 14, 2022 28 minutes ago, samiam said: I doubt that. But I am on record, which is the source of some satisfaction, all by itself. Someone in his office will need to sign for that letter. How many applicants who went through NJSP and are over 60 days do you think there might be by now, out of the alleged 300,000 that have been submitted? 1,000? 5,000? 10,000? Imagine if every one of those applicants (or even a significant fraction of them) sent Callahan a copy of this letter that required a signature. He might have to hire more staff. He might have secretaries quitting (especially if he actually read one and took out his ire on an employee). That might produce some reaction. Don’t forget, 90 business days is about 125 days in total. Pretty much what I found out when I submitted my form4 for a suppressor earlier this year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 472 Posted October 14, 2022 ***DELETED*** 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,647 Posted October 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, samiam said: As has been discussed and demonstrated elsewhere in this forum, elapsed "days" in NJ Statutes and Administrative Code refers to calendar days, unless specifically qualified otherwise. Good. I hope that works out in practice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 15, 2022 Im at 30days, no reference calls yet. CamdenCo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LineItem 36 Posted October 15, 2022 2 hours ago, samiam said: As has been discussed and demonstrated elsewhere in this forum, elapsed "days" in NJ Statutes and Administrative Code refers to calendar days, unless specifically qualified otherwise. In your letter, i would put ‘reasonable’ in before expectation, personally. A reasonable expectation is a legal term that I’ve seen a lot of recently on other matters. Reasonable is defensible within the framework of the existing codes. You’re not asking for anything outside (what should be) standard and customary procedure. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 472 Posted October 15, 2022 ***DELETED*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted October 16, 2022 We made the "Big Time" lol...The NRA-ILA is also asking us to contact people, they have an automated tool which writes an e-mail for us and sends it, might as well do it it is fast and the more we bombard them the better...Don't forget ANJRPC's ask too. https://www.nraila.org/articles/20221014/new-jersey-assembly-committee-set-to-dismantle-carry-on-monday?fbclid=IwAR2Sg7RMgmh3jWFvMeFcmUn7MXgZ4FqnWMohontZhOYbTTNi2puMZCLK4mI 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xtors 327 Posted October 16, 2022 30 minutes ago, Combat Auto said: We made the "Big Time" lol...The NRA-ILA is also asking us to contact people, they have an automated tool which writes an e-mail for us and sends it, might as well do it it is fast and the more we bombard them the better...Don't forget ANJRPC's ask too. https://www.nraila.org/articles/20221014/new-jersey-assembly-committee-set-to-dismantle-carry-on-monday?fbclid=IwAR2Sg7RMgmh3jWFvMeFcmUn7MXgZ4FqnWMohontZhOYbTTNi2puMZCLK4mI I just hit them all from my personal email. I hope everyone here did too. I will also hit them via the NRA link. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marlintag 223 Posted October 16, 2022 29 minutes ago, Xtors said: I just hit them all from my personal email. I hope everyone here did too. I will also hit them via the NRA link. Honestly, haven't we bombarded them polite emails in the past with no reasonable outcome? I feel like were wasting our time, they will pass this bill, and we will have to litigate afterwards... 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xtors 327 Posted October 16, 2022 1 minute ago, marlintag said: Honestly, haven't we bombarded them polite emails in the past with no reasonable outcome? I feel like were wasting our time, they will pass this bill, and we will have to litigate afterwards... Yup, but maybe with all the people applying for permits, the numbers go a lot higher this time. I probably agree with you in general but I will still try to preempt every time. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted October 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, marlintag said: Honestly, haven't we bombarded them polite emails in the past with no reasonable outcome? I feel like were wasting our time, they will pass this bill, and we will have to litigate afterwards... No, sometimes we win some things even if it just a little. For example last time they wanted to pass a law requiring you to keep your guns and ammo separated in your House! And not load your gun until a killer was breaking in...It was not passed. It takes you just a few minuets, that is a tiny ask of us to send a few e-mails... Litigation will follow, but we can't afford to be complacent, ANJRPC ask very little of us really. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky Lefty 112 Posted October 16, 2022 Hate to admit how deflating this whole experience has been. Finally removed justifiable need, only for the state to trip over themselves in a mad dash to pass legislation to treat the most law abiding citizens this state has as criminals. If they pass this new legislation, there will undoubtedly be more criminals in short time due to the hoops of fire we have to jump through when carrying a firearm WITH A PERMIT TO CARRY. I simply cannot understand where their logic is in rushing to pass laws to literally strip our rights to protect ourselves, especially after the highest court in the land deemed exactly what they are doing as unconstitutional. The proposed legislation vs. justifiable need is 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other, with the former more suited to ruin your life. I try to refrain from being so dramatic, but with this in play, I truly hate this state and the politicians running it. Apologies for the rant, just sharing my experience thus far. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fawkesguy 57 Posted October 16, 2022 40 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said: Hate to admit how deflating this whole experience has been. I agree. It's really quite depressing. I simply cannot understand where their logic is in rushing to pass laws to literally strip our rights to protect ourselves, especially after the highest court in the land deemed exactly what they are doing as unconstitutional. Their "logic" is that they do not believe owning and/or carrying a firearm is a right. They believe it is a privilege granted by the state. Doesn't matter what the Bill of Rights says, doesn't matter what SCOTUS says. Think about it - the 2nd Amendment isn't even recognized in NJ. Possession of a firearm is illegal. It's illegal unless you apply for and are granted the privilege of ownership via the issuance of a FPID. So the thought of granting you the privilege of actually carrying a firearm in public is absolute insanity to them, and will be fought, tooth and nail. 1 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted October 17, 2022 12 hours ago, Lucky Lefty said: Hate to admit how deflating this whole experience has been. Finally removed justifiable need, only for the state to trip over themselves in a mad dash to pass legislation to treat the most law abiding citizens this state has as criminals. If they pass this new legislation, there will undoubtedly be more criminals in short time due to the hoops of fire we have to jump through when carrying a firearm WITH A PERMIT TO CARRY. I simply cannot understand where their logic is in rushing to pass laws to literally strip our rights to protect ourselves, especially after the highest court in the land deemed exactly what they are doing as unconstitutional. The proposed legislation vs. justifiable need is 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other, with the former more suited to ruin your life. I try to refrain from being so dramatic, but with this in play, I truly hate this state and the politicians running it. Apologies for the rant, just sharing my experience thus far. I understand your frustration...But always start from the assumption that their motivation has absolutely nothing to do with logic. Then you will know their "purpose". 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJ Guns 36 Posted October 17, 2022 NY's attempt at this was stopped by the courts within a few days. Bruen makes it clear that every one of these restrictions is unconstitutional. As soon as this is passed, one of NJ's gun organizations will be in federal court filing papers to stop this and I'll send them a donation as soon as I know who that is. I don't know the timeline but I really believe these restrictions won't last very long. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RadioGunner 218 Posted October 17, 2022 13 hours ago, Lucky Lefty said: Hate to admit how deflating this whole experience has been. Finally removed justifiable need, only for the state to trip over themselves in a mad dash to pass legislation to treat the most law abiding citizens this state has as criminals. If they pass this new legislation, there will undoubtedly be more criminals in short time due to the hoops of fire we have to jump through when carrying a firearm WITH A PERMIT TO CARRY. I simply cannot understand where their logic is in rushing to pass laws to literally strip our rights to protect ourselves, especially after the highest court in the land deemed exactly what they are doing as unconstitutional. The proposed legislation vs. justifiable need is 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other, with the former more suited to ruin your life. I try to refrain from being so dramatic, but with this in play, I truly hate this state and the politicians running it. Apologies for the rant, just sharing my experience thus far. It’s an act of desperation. They will lose out in the end. Enough pissed off people can make a change. This bill isn’t law yet. Support local orgs like ANJRPC who are fighting. Vote in federal elections and support gun friendly Senate candidates, in particular those out of state in marginal states where there is a real chance to flip a seat. Why? The Senate confirms judges including Supreme Court justices. You can’t vote but you can donate. You can tell friends and relatives to vote. This is a long game. It took us a while to get to bruen. But Bruen is strong enough that the rest of stuff can fall down easily. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lostboy 105 Posted October 17, 2022 You already explained their logic, to make more criminals. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LineItem 36 Posted October 17, 2022 16 hours ago, Xtors said: I just hit them all from my personal email. I hope everyone here did too. I will also hit them via the NRA link. They make it easy and straightforward - done. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferris 78 Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/14/2022 at 3:43 PM, MrAceJD said: I believe the proposed legislation also has a requirement that there be an interview with the Chief of Police. Seems like a benign request although depending on volume, not sure how disruptive it will be to their calendar. I do wonder though as to whether the seemingly high volume of pending applications will be kicked back if this legislation passes before the permits are issued under the old rules? The question is do you go to that interview with out a lawyer? Seriously they chief isn't going to interview on what you had for breakfast they are looking at history and your views or "Character" and asking gotcha questions on those. A smart person wouldn't talk about anything but that's kind of a pointless interview then. I can see it now, go in to interview on a carry permit leave in cuffs because you accidentally kicked your dog when you were 15(50 years ago) and admitted to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites