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NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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46 minutes ago, sorvanetzsorv said:

I am not a lawyer either, but my reading of the law is that a person can be charged with a disorderly persons offense (which is punishable in NJ by up to six months in jail, and is essentially a NJ version of misdemeanor) according to NJ 2C:18-3.b(2):

https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll/statutes/1/2753/2909

Is there any size or prominent location that this "Sign" needs to be posted? 

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2 hours ago, Bobby69 said:


 

it says on the back of permit as per court order for personal protection. So if I see someone being shot at or robbed I’ll just go the other way I guess!!!!

Read it again.   How is protection spelled?   Every mercer county permit ive seen.  And mine.  The morons spelled protection incorrectly!!

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52 minutes ago, Downtownv said:

Is there any size or prominent location that this "Sign" needs to be posted? 

I believe it’s “conspicuously” posted.  Is what it says.   Im 6’.  If it’s within 5’-7’.  Its good for me.  I went into an eyeglass store the other week.  The sign was at the entrance about a foot from the ground.  I walked in with no concerns.  

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4 hours ago, sorvanetzsorv said:

I am not a lawyer either, but my reading of the law is that a person can be charged with a disorderly persons offense (which is punishable in NJ by up to six months in jail, and is essentially a NJ version of misdemeanor) according to NJ 2C:18-3.b(2):

https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll/statutes/1/2753/2909

Since neither of us are lawyers, I won't dig deeper, but the law you cited states it's an offense if you knowingly enter a place you're not supposed to or enter a place where you've already been trespassed.

That means you have to either know you're in violation or have previously violated and have been trespassed.  The scenario I was commenting on was neither of those.

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Am I correct that all qualifying ranges require 80% to pass?   So I have to fire 50 rounds and hit 40?  Or are there any ranges w/ easier requirements?  I plan on qualifying with a Taurus .38 revolver and a tiny smith & wessson .380 handgun w/ a 6-round clip.  When I go to the range, at about 30 yards, I can hit targets about 50% of the time w/ the .38 revolver.  But only about 10% of the time w/ the tiny .380.  There's no way I can hit 80% with either gun.  Here's my questions:  #1 - Is it possible the range will give me a certificate even if I don't hit 40 of 50 rounds?  And #2 - Should I just try qualifying with the .38 revolver since the permits hopefully won't list what weapons I'm licensed to carry?  Thanks

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4 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Am I correct that all qualifying ranges require 80% to pass?   So I have to fire 50 rounds and hit 40?  Or are there any ranges w/ easier requirements?  I plan on qualifying with a Taurus .38 revolver and a tiny smith & wessson .380 handgun w/ a 6-round clip.  When I go to the range, at about 30 yards, I can hit targets about 50% of the time w/ the .38 revolver.  But only about 10% of the time w/ the tiny .380.  There's no way I can hit 80% with either gun.  Here's my questions:  #1 - Is it possible the range will give me a certificate even if I don't hit 40 of 50 rounds?  And #2 - Should I just try qualifying with the .38 revolver since the permits hopefully won't list what weapons I'm licensed to carry?  Thanks

Wow….

Both of those guns are inherently capable of scoring 100% on a HQC - Meaning they are mechanically accurate enough to get scoring hits at 25yards. I have qualed with a JFrame and a Ruger LCP with no issues.

Instead of wishing for an easier test, practice harder to be a better shot.

It’s a win-win.

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16 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Am I correct that all qualifying ranges require 80% to pass?   So I have to fire 50 rounds and hit 40?  Or are there any ranges w/ easier requirements?  I plan on qualifying with a Taurus .38 revolver and a tiny smith & wessson .380 handgun w/ a 6-round clip.  When I go to the range, at about 30 yards, I can hit targets about 50% of the time w/ the .38 revolver.  But only about 10% of the time w/ the tiny .380.  There's no way I can hit 80% with either gun.  Here's my questions:  #1 - Is it possible the range will give me a certificate even if I don't hit 40 of 50 rounds?  And #2 - Should I just try qualifying with the .38 revolver since the permits hopefully won't list what weapons I'm licensed to carry?  Thanks

Further to HE's advice, which I agree with; note that not all 50 shots are at 25 yards.  Recommend you check the gunforhite.com website and look at, and practice their specific course of fire.  

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29 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Am I correct that all qualifying ranges require 80% to pass?   So I have to fire 50 rounds and hit 40?  Or are there any ranges w/ easier requirements?  I plan on qualifying with a Taurus .38 revolver and a tiny smith & wessson .380 handgun w/ a 6-round clip.  When I go to the range, at about 30 yards, I can hit targets about 50% of the time w/ the .38 revolver.  But only about 10% of the time w/ the tiny .380.  There's no way I can hit 80% with either gun.  Here's my questions:  #1 - Is it possible the range will give me a certificate even if I don't hit 40 of 50 rounds?  And #2 - Should I just try qualifying with the .38 revolver since the permits hopefully won't list what weapons I'm licensed to carry?  Thanks

This is a terrible attitude. Carry a gun you can actually shoot.

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Please realize in the Army, I was expert or right below that.  My weapon was a 9mm Beretta or M16-A1.  But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away.  So I think I can qualify w/ my .38 revolver.  Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others.  Thanks

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8 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Please realize in the Army, I was expert or right below that.  My weapon was a 9mm Beretta or M16-A1.  But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away.  So I think I can qualify w/ my .38 revolver.  Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others.  Thanks

But if you can't hit more then a few feet away with it then why are you carrying it? I hope I don't have loved ones behind your target. 

Very irresponsible in my opinion. Sign up for a class. 

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4 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Please realize in the Army, I was expert or right below that.  My weapon was a 9mm Beretta or M16-A1.  But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away.  So I think I can qualify w/ my .38 revolver.  Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others.  Thanks

Greetings. I think you're relatively new, so welcome to the forum.

I agree with the previous opinions that mechanically the two handguns you mentioned can pass the test. So it appears the issue is your shooting technique. Have you considered getting some instruction? A competent instructor may be able to guide you to a much better score.

But more importantly, I think you should consider what might happen if you're carrying those handguns. What will happen if you need to use them in self-defense? If your accuracy is less than adequate, where will the other rounds end up and what will that mean to you? It might be very unpleasant.

If you were an 'expert' with a 9mm Beretta, there's no handgun mechanical characteristic that would prevent you from becoming an expert with your choice of CCH.

So I have to disagree that your best course is finding a more lenient course of fire to pass qualification. IMO you should consider improving your skills where you can easily pass all the courses of fire that have been referenced. And then some. This has nothing to do with New Jersey and handgun permit regulations. It has to do with the best outcome for you out on the street.

This is what I have done. Keep at it and good luck.

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9 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others.  Thanks

I don't know of any, though they may be out there.   I do know of harder qualifying courses than Gun for Hire.  Some facilities use the same HQC-1 course the police use for qualification--holster draw, strong hand, weak hand, standing-to-kneeling stages...   But as far as I know, the state hasn't been pushing back on the easier qualification courses, they just cling to their 80% number, not worrying themselves that they never specified 80% of what.

Practice a lot with the .38, including a great deal of dry firing, so that you can easily pass the qualification.   Maybe qualifying with the little .380 is not to be.   The gun is almost certainly capable, but as you note, it's harder to do.   Most ranges let you sign up for two passes over the course, and if you qualify with the .38 on the first try, you can alway try with the .380 on the second.

Check in advance to make sure they offer a course of fire suitable for 6 shot handguns.   Not everyone does.

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5 minutes ago, 10X said:

Practice a lot with the .38, including a great deal of dry firing, so that you can easily pass the qualification.

The OP might consider acquiring a laser training device for practice. This demands accuracy, but costs less than many range trips. As soon as I did, several things became obvious.

For one, I was hitting a 3" laser target consistently at 24' in my house with almost any size handgun. But take those same handguns to the range with live ammo? Different story! At least until I identified what was going wrong.

And surprise... it wasn't the gun. :o

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15 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Please realize in the Army, I was expert or right below that.  My weapon was a 9mm Beretta or M16-A1.  But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away.  So I think I can qualify w/ my .38 revolver.  Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others.  Thanks

To answer your question, gunsforhire is the easier course. To my knowledge it is gonna be your best option. 

No problem with the .38 revolver. I can relate as I passed with qual with a tiny .380 pocket pistol. It was hard, I thought I may not pass. I barely passed with a 48/60 but it is possible and very rewarding. If I took it at gunsforhire, I bet I would have had a better score. 

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2 minutes ago, Malaka said:

I can relate as I passed with qual with a tiny .380 pocket pistol. It was hard, I thought I may not pass.

This is a good point, also mentioned by 10X.

While almost any handgun is accurate on its own in a test setup, some are harder to shoot more accurately than others, and require better technique and more practice. Barrel length, trigger pull, hand vs. grip matchup etc.

So it's no surprise when most (correctly) decide to carry what they shoot best. Not what's most convenient.

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36 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

 But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away. 

Respectfully, I think you just need to spend more time dry-firing and at the range.  I wouldn't use one in a Bullseye match, but on a torso sized target there's no reason you can't get rounds on paper out to 25 yards.

Go online and grab a case of ammo for the best price you can find and have at it.

This guy hits them out to 80 yards (the gong).

 

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On 2/1/2023 at 10:16 AM, Bobby69 said:

Well as soon as I submitted my post PD called to pick up my permit. On the back about the restrictions 2 boxes are checked. 1 is See below & the other is see court order

.Below says “Valid as stated on court order” 

They gave me the court order which I have to carry. The order states only the gun I qualified with &  I have to carry the order with me. Also the only carry where allowed. 
I read that the carry of the gun you qualified with is not legal meaning I should be allowed to carry any handgun I own but for now I’m not going to bring it up.  I’ll wait a while to see how things play out.  Seem each county is making their own rules

If your Permit does not have Restrictions or Court Order checked, then technically one permit for all guns you own.  However you have Court Order checked so you must abide by the court order which is limiting you to just the gun you qualified with.  

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49 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Please realize in the Army, I was expert or right below that.  My weapon was a 9mm Beretta or M16-A1.  But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away.  So I think I can qualify w/ my .38 revolver.  Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others.  Thanks

 

If you can't hit a Q target 80% of the time at those distances with those guns, you really should either get rid of those guns and get ones you can hit the target with and get training/practice with the guns you plan on using.  

To answer your question about places with an easier course of fire or reduced pass rate:  No.  The only places allowed to certify are NJSP certified testers.  They rely on a standardized test. I believe there are 3 different standardized test that can be used, but most use a modified version (no low light portion) of the easiest test.  Point being the test is as already as easy as its going to get.  I was able to to get 50 out of 50 with all 3 of my guns, including a 3.3" barrel compact.  If you can't pass it, you probably shouldn't get your permit anyways.  I appreciate that you were an expert in the army and that's awesome, but it is a perishable skill.  If you haven't been practicing on the regular, you won't be at the same level you once were.  

 

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In the Army, the distance to qualify with a M16 rifle was about 100 meters vs only 25 or 30m for a 9mm weapon.  Why?  Because the smaller the gun, the harder it is to hit a target.  In any event, I'm going to try qualifying with both weapons and will probably only qualify with the Taurus .38 revolver.  I also think this requirement is Unconstitutional and will eventually be ruled as such

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4 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

I also think this requirement is Unconstitutional and will eventually be ruled as such

Plenty of people think the government shouldn't be requiring it.

However, you won't find many arguing against having, and maintaining, a high level of proficiency with the weapon you'll be carrying.

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Under Bruen, the US Supreme Court ruled any gun law has to be ". . . consistent with the Nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation."  Being an expert shooter with a tiny handgun or requiring liability insurance or banning carry in your car or at the public park, all may have some benefit, but all have no "historical tradition."  So unless the Supreme Court reads " high level of proficiency," in the 2nd Amendment, it's really unconstitutional to require such a test, imho.  It's a good idea to shoot accurately.  But it's not Constitutional and will be rejected by the US Supreme Court at some point, imho

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29 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

I also think this requirement is Unconstitutional and will eventually be ruled as such

Unfortunately, Lots of things are unconstitutional.  With that said, respectfully, I'm happier knowing a guy who can't hit a target more than a couple feet away isn't blasting away next to my wife and kid. Part of being a responsible gun owner is knowing how to handle the gun you carry. 

There is nothing keeping you from shooting the current gun you have with better profiency.  Dry fire, take a class, practice. That should be your focus. 

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2 hours ago, ESB said:

If your Permit does not have Restrictions or Court Order checked, then technically one permit for all guns you own.  However you have Court Order checked so you must abide by the court order which is limiting you to just the gun you qualified with.  

Yes I understand that & will obviously abide by it.  I am not stupid.  I mentioned with the lawsuits going around there was a stipulation that as long as your qualified to carry you  shouldn’t be restricted to 1 gun. I will let everything play out & see what happens down the road.  It seems each county is making up their own rules which is unconstitutional as per 2nd amendment.  
im not even going to ask about qualifying with another gun and having it put on my permit yet. They have an attitude when you speak with them. They act like they’re doing you a favor.  I have a Glock 26 which is great. It’s just the point I brought up about the restriction placed on my permit when an adjoining county gives no restrictions.  It’s all good!!!

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22 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Cheflife, in all due respect, if I'm being robbed and beaten, and a good Samaritan with bad aim wants to assist me with his gun, I will gladly let him do so.  I could care less if he's a perfect shot at 100m

100m is very different then the "more then a few feet" you mentioned earlier.

I'm not quite sure why you continue to rationalize how it's responsible to suck at shooting while carrying. If you can't hit a target at 10 to 15 yards with zero stress then you're a liability to yourself. 

The only thing keeping you from being able to pass this test is probably 1 class and a bit of practice. Dry fire nightly for 20 minutes, work on your grip, sight picture, trigger pull etc. 

 

 

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