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CJack

NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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Ok…. Update my application is being sent back… a training cert isn’t enough. So it’s definitely training AND qualification with the pistol you plan on carrying. Also I have to be fingerprinted first then reapply. I’m going to see if I can qualify over the weekend and schedule the finger prints for next week. 

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On 6/28/2022 at 6:08 PM, CJack said:

They still left that "Lack of Justifiable Need" checkbox on the form. WTF ?

it's gone. i got an email from the lady i was hoping to talk to at my pd. she sent it this am. it was different than the one i was handed yesterday. then this afternoon, she sent me another updated form. SHE is being super helpful.

1 hour ago, Ficus said:

Ok…. Update my application is being sent back… a training cert isn’t enough. So it’s definitely training AND qualification with the pistol you plan on carrying. Also I have to be fingerprinted first then reapply. I’m going to see if I can qualify over the weekend and schedule the finger prints for next week. 

are they making you pay a second time?

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8 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

are they making you pay a second time?

No. But I’m going to assume I have to use the updated form so I’ll have to have it notarized and all that bs again. 

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15 hours ago, samiam said:

Between what is written on the application, and what is in the two different sets of instructions for same (!) I tentatively concluded that when the applicant signs the form, he or she is attesting that the contents are accurate, and that the endorsment references are aware of what they are signing. The notarization is for the applicant's acknowledgement of those conditions. However, given the questionable nature of the entire process at this time, I can't be 100% certain of that (or pretty much anything else :( 

Having been in contracts for 20+ years, I concur with your conclusion.

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4 hours ago, Ficus said:

No. But I’m going to assume I have to use the updated form so I’ll have to have it notarized and all that bs again. 

Did they give your application fee money order back ?

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21 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The ORI number tells Indentogo where to send the results of the fingerprinting/BG check.

What you're thinking of is the contributor's case number. That is your last name followed by the date of your application. I have been told to use the date I sign and get it notarized. So if Joe Doe signed his app today, his CC# would be Doe062922

OK, thank you for the clarification. I suspect the NJSP desk guy have told me that, but I guess their marching orders are to only answer direct questions, and not to volunteer anything. I looked at my most recent IdentiGo print form and it bore a "UE" number that didn't seem to match format with either the ORI or case number. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what that one is?

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17 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

it's gone. i got an email from the lady i was hoping to talk to at my pd. she sent it this am. it was different than the one i was handed yesterday. then this afternoon, she sent me another updated form. SHE is being super helpful.

are they making you pay a second time?

Are you looking at the judge's section of the SP 642 form (below the "APPLICANT: DO NOT WRITE BELOW THIS SPACE" legend)? Because the form that I find at https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/sp-642.pdf is still dated 6/28/2022, and under "Reason for DIsapproval" it still shows a check box labeled "G" that reads "LACK OF JUSTIFIABLE NEED". So if NJSP revised the form to eliminate that check box, they failed to post the revision to the official publc site. 

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18 hours ago, Ficus said:

Ok…. Update my application is being sent back… a training cert isn’t enough. So it’s definitely training AND qualification with the pistol you plan on carrying. Also I have to be fingerprinted first then reapply. I’m going to see if I can qualify over the weekend and schedule the finger prints for next week. 

Thanks for the update. I have an NRA Handgun Safety training certificate from 2016. I gave half a thought to submitting my application with that even though I have the full NRA CCW class (that includes qualificaiton) scheduled for July 30 - 31. Praobably wouldn't gone that route, but it's definite now. 

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I dropped off my packet at NJSP Washington Station this afternoon.

The Sgt. at the front desk looked at everything in it and was clearly referring to a checklist as he did so. He said it looked complete and would pass it to their firearms person. He even volunteered her email address in case I had any questions to ask her.

This is what I did:

3 x application form (SP642 6/28/2022) filled in on my PC and printed. My references signed each copy. I signed each copy in front on a notary at the UPS store he and notarized them.

1 x consent for mental health records search (SP066 7/23/2019) Which I signed and one of my references witnessed.

The UPS store guy also did my photos. He knew what it was for as soon as I said I needed 4 pictures. He said he had done several already this week, but I was the first person to ask for 1.5"x1.5" rather than 2"x2". He made a mental note to help future customers. (I also was asked questions by the other staff at the store about how to get a gun and a permit - one was a young expecting mother)

I got a money order for $50 from the post office and made it out to "Treasurer, State of New Jersey" - I have been advised by the NJSP trooper that handled my (failed) app in 2017 that the wording on the MO has to be exactly that. Anything else has been bounced before

I did quals with a certified instructor that has been doing RPO quals for years. He is recognized by NJSP as being certified for that. He signed off that I did the HQC1 and HNCQ. He did not put his NRA certification number on the form so I got it from him and added it myself.

I provided a photocopy of my drivers license and my certificate of naturalization.

I provided a photocopy of the PtPP that was executed when I acquired each handgun I qualified with.

I went to Identogo in Easton, PA this morning as there were no appointments available on the web site in NJ at all. I had to pay extra for out of state, but I was not prepared to wait. I booked the appt on Tuesday and went today (Thursday). I included the receipt in my packet.

Before I handed it all in, I made sure I had a copy of everything for my records.

Now the wait begins.

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2 hours ago, samiam said:

OK, thank you for the clarification. I suspect the NJSP desk guy have told me that, but I guess their marching orders are to only answer direct questions, and not to volunteer anything. I looked at my most recent IdentiGo print form and it bore a "UE" number that didn't seem to match format with either the ORI or case number. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what that one is?

I'm not sure, but I think it is an internal processing/receipt number for Identogo.

ETA: Don't be too hard on NJSP. The ruling is only a week old, the AG directive less than that. These guys work shifts and have families they take on vacation. They will not all be instantly knowledgeable on every aspect of the laws, especially recently changed ones. 

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8 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

Wondering if there is a standard qualification form NJ is accepting or if every training facility has one of their own...

This is the firearms qualification for law enforcement. Statutes say it must be "substantially similar". It depends on how you define substantially similar, but that is why you are seeing differences.

https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/firearms_2003final.pdf

Screenshot 2022-06-30 222001.jpg

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On 6/28/2022 at 8:03 PM, Vzguy said:

I saw that too.

 

On 6/28/2022 at 8:03 PM, Vzguy said:

They still left that "Lack of Justifiable Need" checkbox on the form. WTF ?

This sounds reticules, but I wonder if NJ is keeping it incase you use a reason other than self defense and they think they can keep "Justifiable Need" but only have to accept self defense as a qualifier?

Like I said, sounds reticules, but this is NJ we're talking about. 

The other side of the coin may be, they don't intend to comply until the specific case of NJ is heard in court. The case everything is revolving around sets precedence, for future cases.... It does not however in itself strike down any other states laws that are in violation until they themselves are taken to court. It may create a slam dunk argument, but still has to be heard case by case, state by state to strike down a specific states violating law if the state pushes it to that point. This is the way I see it and I may be completely wrong. But what I am not wrong about is NJ will grab at every straw it possibly can to circumvent the California ruling 

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12 hours ago, danw77 said:

This is the firearms qualification for law enforcement. Statutes say it must be "substantially similar". It depends on how you define substantially similar, but that is why you are seeing differences.

https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/firearms_2003final.pdf

Screenshot 2022-06-30 222001.jpg

GFH states on their web site they are shooting from the 25yrd. line while RTSP states they are shooting from the 15yrd line so what's the acceptable criteria....

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On 6/29/2022 at 8:23 PM, Ficus said:

Ok…. Update my application is being sent back… a training cert isn’t enough. So it’s definitely training AND qualification with the pistol you plan on carrying. Also I have to be fingerprinted first then reapply. I’m going to see if I can qualify over the weekend and schedule the finger prints for next week. 

NJSP have electronic fingerprints from one's original FID application. They require and additional copy of the same thing for a CCW upgrade?

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1 hour ago, fslater said:

 

This sounds reticules, but I wonder if NJ is keeping it incase you use a reason other than self defense and they think they can keep "Justifiable Need" but only have to accept self defense as a qualifier?

......

How would they know the "need" of application if they removed the question itself ? Unless I missed part. And I do agree with you on NJ being sneaky.

 

44 minutes ago, fslater said:

NJSP have electronic fingerprints from one's original FID application. They require and additional copy of the same thing for a CCW upgrade?

Yes!.. Doesn't make sense, right ? If they were thinking logically, applying common sense, we wouldn't here to discuss this :-)

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17 minutes ago, CJack said:

Yes!.. Doesn't make sense, right ? If they were thinking logically, applying common sense, we wouldn't here to discuss this

They are thinking, logically, applying common sense in regard to their own desired end. Make it as difficult, time consuming and expensive, if not  impossible for the average person in NJ to possess a firearm in NJ for any reason.

I would say, that's the part no one says out loud, But actually Gov Beaver does on a regular basis and is proud of it at that.

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On 6/29/2022 at 11:26 AM, Ficus said:

Yes. Dropped it off at the police station Monday. Officer looked over my papers said everything looked good and he would call me when he forwards it to the courts. He said he has no idea how long it’ll be in the courts hands as they’re still backed up from Covid evictions. 

They have 60 days to approve or deny or it is considered approved ,unless the applicant agrees to extend the time limit

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On 6/29/2022 at 6:07 PM, brucin said:

Yes however you must have a residence in NY. Depending on where it is it is relatively easy to get a permit, for now.

I have had an unrestricted permit for the past 7 years. I received that faster than I received my NJ FPID card.

If Im not mistaken CCW's in NY are County issued, so each County may have different ways to make it easy or harder to finalize a permit.

I know Someone who took 6 months to get CCW Permit in Buffalo Area. 5 year CCW License/permit, all carry guns listed on License/permit.

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Did you see the new law NYS they rammed through?  16 hours of classroom and practical trainings, 2 hours range qualification, businesses are considered a prohibited zone unless the owner posts signage allowing guns, but the best...you must provide user names for all social media accounts.

 

Looks like more court time.

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Hot of the press from RTSP.  YES you need a holster

Upon further review, and due to the ever changing nature of the guidance regarding CCW, the curriculum, requirements and training have been modified to now require a holster for your qualifications.

We apologize for the last minute notification, but as stated, the guidance is fluid and being updated by the day. The course of fire remains the same. However, it will now include drawing from a holster during the qualification. It is now HIGHLY recommended that you bring your own holster.

As a courtesy, RTSP will have universal holsters available that fit most common firearms. We cannot guarantee that we will have a holster available for your firearm. We are allowing students to reschedule qualifications to a later date, giving time to procure a holster, if you don’t already have one.

If you need to reschedule your qualification, please email [email protected].

Thank you for your understanding,

RTSP

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On 7/1/2022 at 10:33 AM, fslater said:

 

This sounds reticules, but I wonder if NJ is keeping it incase you use a reason other than self defense and they think they can keep "Justifiable Need" but only have to accept self defense as a qualifier?

Like I said, sounds reticules, but this is NJ we're talking about. 

The other side of the coin may be, they don't intend to comply until the specific case of NJ is heard in court. The case everything is revolving around sets precedence, for future cases.... It does not however in itself strike down any other states laws that are in violation until they themselves are taken to court. It may create a slam dunk argument, but still has to be heard case by case, state by state to strike down a specific states violating law if the state pushes it to that point. This is the way I see it and I may be completely wrong. But what I am not wrong about is NJ will grab at every straw it possibly can to circumvent the California ruling 

If they (NJ) don't comply in the sense of issuing permits to ordinary citizens who appear to meet the qualifications they have set out, but at the same time are issuing/renewing permits for LEO/RPO types that fall under the same code and regulations, I think that may be creating a huge problem for themselves. I don't think much of what they are trying to do to slow this down is compliant with Bruen as it is; if they create a situation that can be characterized as subjectively creating two sets of individuals who nominally fall under the same regs, and treating each set differently, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes in a few months. 

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1 hour ago, H2oVento said:

Hot of the press from RTSP.  YES you need a holster

Upon further review, and due to the ever changing nature of the guidance regarding CCW, the curriculum, requirements and training have been modified to now require a holster for your qualifications.

.............

That makes sense because the atleast one pdf I found about NJ HQC involve drawing from holster and 60 rounds.. https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/firearms2001.pdf - Appendex A

 

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1 hour ago, H2oVento said:

Hot of the press from RTSP.  YES you need a holster

Upon further review, and due to the ever changing nature of the guidance regarding CCW, the curriculum, requirements and training have been modified to now require a holster for your qualifications.

We apologize for the last minute notification, but as stated, the guidance is fluid and being updated by the day. The course of fire remains the same. However, it will now include drawing from a holster during the qualification. It is now HIGHLY recommended that you bring your own holster.

As a courtesy, RTSP will have universal holsters available that fit most common firearms. We cannot guarantee that we will have a holster available for your firearm. We are allowing students to reschedule qualifications to a later date, giving time to procure a holster, if you don’t already have one.

If you need to reschedule your qualification, please email [email protected].

Thank you for your understanding,

RTSP

Next, the NJ guidance will require that all holsters be serialized, and that the permit applicant will need to identify on his application, qualify with, and may carry, only the specific holster used for qualification...

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On 6/28/2022 at 4:59 PM, CMJeepster said:

Sounds like she's one of those "only the police should have guns" type of people.  :icon_rolleyes:

be9.jpg

On 6/28/2022 at 5:32 PM, diamondd817 said:

Everyone in State of NJ has been indoctrinated.

That's is why CCW in NJ, will not be as easy as everyone might make it seem

 

 

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Shooters Sporting Center Facebook posting:
STARTING TUESDAY MORNING YOU CAN CALL THE STORE TO BOOK A CLASS.
THIS 1 HOUR COURSE IS BY APPOINTMENT ONLY! YOU MUST BE AN EXPERIENCED SHOOTER TO REGISTER FOR THIS CLASS!
This is not a training course!
$90 Plus Tax Non-Refundable Fee! You will not be refunded if you do not pass!
Please come prepared with the following:
•Firearm/s you wish to carry (Must be .380 or Larger) Semi-autos preferred- Revolvers will require a speed loader
•100 Rounds of ammunition
•At least 2 magazines
•Drivers License and Firearm’s ID card
EYES & EARS required as well, just me adding a reminder.
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