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CJack

NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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On 8/5/2022 at 4:57 PM, maintenanceguy said:

I typed up a letter that says "To whom it may concern:

 

This letter serves as my certification that I am the lawful owner of the following handguns:

 

"

I signed and dated it and had my signature notarized.  The trooper at my local station accepted it this morning.  We had a long talk about the process and he said he wasn't sure why there was a requirement for proof of ownership, if I bought a gun legally in NJ he can look it up in the database.  If I didn't, I can just write a letter which doesn't prove or disprove anything.

I think the fact that the state that is making us jump through so damned many twisted and arguably unconstitutional hoops to exercise our right to carry a firearm would consider a self-attested document to be adequate proof of ownership of that firearm is uncontestable evidence of just how completely effed up the NJ bureaucracy is. As if any additional evidence was required. 

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So what I want to know is -

Those who had the unicorns before Bruen, did they jump through all these hoops?

Did the towns that approve them say they were waiting on further guidance or load them up with extra illegal requirements? 
 

Or was it smooth sailing? 
 

what changed? 

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1 hour ago, samiam said:

I recall that my Florida permit took a while (initial granted almost exactly one year ago), but I don't think it was that long.

I think my delay was because they rejected the identoGo fingerprints I had done. Said it had to be from a PD. Had to get it done from a police dept with their stamp and contact info.  
 

VA permit was the fastest. Had it in my hand 10 days after I mailed out my application. 

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12 hours ago, glockdoc said:

I think my delay was because they rejected the identoGo fingerprints I had done. Said it had to be from a PD. Had to get it done from a police dept with their stamp and contact info.  
 

VA permit was the fastest. Had it in my hand 10 days after I mailed out my application. 

Yeah, like you, I had to find a PD that could (and would) do inked prints. Not easy. Fortunately, I found out about the requirement after I went to Identogo, but before I submitted my FL application. I live in Cape May County in NJSP jurisdiction. NJSP pretty much laughed at the idea of doing inked prints. Cape May County Sheriff's Office had no time for me, either. I finally called Atlantic County Sheriff's Office and spoke to Identification Officer Jim Pruitt, who was extremely helpful and accommodating. Not only was he willing to print me (immediately) even though I don't reside in Atlantic County, he encouraged me to send anyone else of my acquaintance who needed inked prints for permits to him. My last Virginia permit renewal was also quick, but not that quick. Unforunately they had advised the opposite - that it might take much longer than usual (this was during the COVID restrictions) and that applicants should submit very early. I submitted 2-1/2 months ahead of deadline, and received my permit in a bit over 2 weeks. Of course, the renewal approval date became the new expiration. I had been trying to coordinate the deadlines for my non-resident permits, but that blew the effort completely out of the water :)

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38 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

Any experience out of Edison (or Middlesex County)

I inquired by phone at Edison PD about status of my application. They did not ask my name and I was told to contact Superior Court.  

They are playing games with you intentionally! There is no reason they cannot provide an update on your application! There disgustingly rude! When you did you submit and when were you fingerprinted? 

fyi, I am in Middlesex and I called my PD late last week and left a polite message inquiring about my application. I left a message as no one picked up and I have not heard back. If I hear nothing back from my PD this week, I will likely try calling Superior Court to inquire if they have any information. I have set a time frame over the next few weeks to get some resolution. If I am unable to get something as simple as an update on my application, I will be looking at legal action! FYI, Middlesex is as bad as Bergen county!!

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2 hours ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

Any experience out of Edison (or Middlesex County)

I inquired by phone at Edison PD about status of my application. They did not ask my name and I was told to contact Superior Court.  

Then call the Superior Court. If only every applicant called, emailed etc everyone from PD to country prosecutor (if they got involved) and Superior Courts.  Too many think its not "nice" to follow up. PD gets 30 days before follow up. Courts get two to three weeks before follow up.  PD gets a certified letter after 60 days. Courts get certified letter after 30 days.

 

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31 minutes ago, CJack said:

Then call the Superior Court. If only every applicant called, emailed etc everyone from PD to country prosecutor (if they got involved) and Superior Courts.  Too many think its not "nice" to follow up. PD gets 30 days before follow up. Courts get two to three weeks before follow up.  PD gets a certified letter after 60 days. Courts get certified letter after 30 days.

 

Agree with this.

I have a good relationship with my local police clerk, so I have a spot on my calendar to follow up on August 17 if I don't have any kind of update..  That's about 3 weeks after I handed in my paperwork, so my message will be that "I'm following up to see if there's any additional information needed". 

When it gets to the court I'll do something similar.

No need to be angry/aggressive, but if we just drop off our paperwork and don't "chase" a little bit it won't be important to the PD or the courts.  If it's not important to them they'll ignore as much as possible.

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Sorry folks but listen...

I am a jersey 10+ year long  restricted """carry""" permit holder. Just rec'd current renewal this past May.

It usually takes them 2-3 months to 'produce' my renewal. There are co-workers who have been waiting for over 14 MONTHS and counting. I warned and warned. But jersey's system is deliberately INSANE. That's just the facts.

 

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3 hours ago, quikz said:

I am a jersey 10+ year long  restricted """carry""" permit holder.

@quikz Thanks for relating your experience.

If you don't mind telling us, was your license restricted as to when and/or where you could carry, what you could carry, or both?

Thanks in advance.

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1 hour ago, quikz said:

Sorry folks but listen...

I am a jersey 10+ year long  restricted """carry""" permit holder. Just rec'd current renewal this past May.

It usually takes them 2-3 months to 'produce' my renewal. There are co-workers who have been waiting for over 14 MONTHS and counting. I warned and warned. But jersey's system is deliberately INSANE. That's just the facts.

 

How much of your 2-3 months is with PD vs Court ? Ball park ?

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2 hours ago, CJack said:

How much of your 2-3 months is with PD vs Court ? Ball park ?

Let's see...

1. I submitted my renewal to the NJSP late March, 2022.

2. Did my Sagem Morph whatever its called, about 2 weeks later, locally in early/mid April, 2022.

3. Got a callback from NJSP approx. 3rd week of May, 2022 to come pickup my """carry""" permit.

4. When I picked up my permit, it had a NJ Courts letter attached saying the court signed off on it around early May 2022. Or 2 weeks prior and that's when they also started the 'clock ticking' on my 2 year permit. Thereby losing about 2 weeks of permit validity. <They do this all the time.

 

*Truly, a horrendous, onerous, non-transparent, non-constitutional system and a statist money grab.

 

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5 hours ago, 45Doll said:

@quikz Thanks for relating your experience.

If you don't mind telling us, was your license restricted as to when and/or where you could carry, what you could carry, or both?

Thanks in advance.

My jersey """"carry"""" permit's only restriction is "during work hours only..." Otherwise there is NO restrictions. And I have carried all over the country and ALL OVER Jersey. For work and on my own in Free States. 

 

The permit itself has NO indication of weapon you are to """carry""". That information is on a totally separate piece of paper on NJ Courts letterhead and that letter indicated Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber. In my case it's either an Hk P2000 9mm or Glock 30S in .45ACP.

 

 

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2 hours ago, quikz said:

Let's see...

1. I submitted my renewal to the NJSP late March, 2022.

2. Did my Sagem Morph whatever its called, about 2 weeks later, locally in early/mid April, 2022.

3. Got a callback from NJSP approx. 3rd week of May, 2022 to come pickup my """carry""" permit.

4. When I picked up my permit, it had a NJ Courts letter attached saying the court signed off on it around early May 2022. Or 2 weeks prior and that's when they also started the 'clock ticking' on my 2 year permit. Thereby losing about 2 weeks of permit validity. <They do this all the time.

 

*Truly, a horrendous, onerous, non-transparent, non-constitutional system and a statist money grab.

 

Thanks for sharing. Assuming they need fingerprints to run the background check (mental health may proceed in parallel), your really took about a month and half from FP to permit in hand. If you remove the time NJSP sat on your permit after it was issues, its really a month since your FP to court issuing., isnt it ?  

Hoping the process improves dramatically but PDs themselves are sitting on these permits for more than a month already.

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1 hour ago, quikz said:

My jersey """"carry"""" permit's only restriction is "during work hours only..." Otherwise there is NO restrictions. And I have carried all over the country and ALL OVER Jersey. For work and on my own in Free States. 

The permit itself has NO indication of weapon you are to """carry""". That information is on a totally separate piece of paper on NJ Courts letterhead and that letter indicated Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber. In my case it's either an Hk P2000 9mm or Glock 30S in .45ACP.

@quikz Thanks very much for the exposition. If (and when) I get my permit in Sussex County I'll report back with my outcome.

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On 8/7/2022 at 1:19 PM, 124gr9mm said:

Agree with this.

I have a good relationship with my local police clerk, so I have a spot on my calendar to follow up on August 17 if I don't have any kind of update..  That's about 3 weeks after I handed in my paperwork, so my message will be that "I'm following up to see if there's any additional information needed". 

When it gets to the court I'll do something similar.

No need to be angry/aggressive, but if we just drop off our paperwork and don't "chase" a little bit it won't be important to the PD or the courts.  If it's not important to them they'll ignore as much as possible.

Angry? No, that would be counterproductive. Aggressive? That term is subject to interpretation, but, in general, to me that would depend on how much and what kind of run-around I was getting. I am capable of making myself a royal PITA to unresponsive bureaucrats. 

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Even though the woman who processes these told me I was done and she was mailing to superior court after chief signed last week, I’ve now gotten written confirmation that she mailed them last Thursday or Friday. 
 

I know it was posted here somewhere but I’m not looking through 38 pages … anyone have the statute handy that lays out the time frame the judge has to approve?

 

I fear now the real wait begins. Someone earlier posted the judge approving in another county. He was part of the criminal division. Of the 4 judges I could find political affiliations for online that are in the Burlington county criminal division 2 are Republicans. Not that it should matter but maybe if one of them is handling they won’t drag their ass quite as much. 
 

I’ll give it a week or two before I call for an update and also ask who is signing. If anyone in Burlington county knows before then please share.  

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28 minutes ago, ToddD said:

Even though the woman who processes these told me I was done and she was mailing to superior court after chief signed last week, I’ve now gotten written confirmation that she mailed them last Thursday or Friday. 
 

I know it was posted here somewhere but I’m not looking through 38 pages … anyone have the statute handy that lays out the time frame the judge has to approve?

 

I fear now the real wait begins. Someone earlier posted the judge approving in another county. He was part of the criminal division. Of the 4 judges I could find political affiliations for online that are in the Burlington county criminal division 2 are Republicans. Not that it should matter but maybe if one of them is handling they won’t drag their ass quite as much. 
 

I’ll give it a week or two before I call for an update and also ask who is signing. If anyone in Burlington county knows before then please share.  

I believe this is what you are looking for...

https://search1.njcourts.gov/go/?rt=1659988537989&docId=99f7ff139c5d4fd491ea2115aaf2cade&queryId=162034ffaf664992bb99c263833feeb6&order=0

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1 hour ago, Kadayo said:

Again, that is nicely written, but it appears to me that Glenn A. Grant's role as Administrative Director of the New Jersey Courts is advisory. I see nothing to suggest that he has any specific authority to force a Superior Court judge to comply with these rules. I suppose that might be different if Chief Justice Stuart Rabner specifically backed him on a particular issue. AFAIK, Rabner has been silent on this issue, and I am skeptical that will change. As CJack wrote, the directive could certainly be used as evidence against the practices of a judge in a lawsuit, but I don't think that an applicant would enjoy much success in using it on his own to pressure a sitting judge to expedite his or her application. I'd be happy to be wrong on this. 

New Jersey Court Rule 1:33 (scroll down to 1:33-3  )

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100% agree with you. I wanted it so I could reference it if needed in my phone call. I’m aware it’ll make little to no difference but still wanted to have it. 
 

That said, your link would indicate that the NJ Supreme Court directed the Administrative Director to release this document, thus giving it some weight. 
 

Again, I agree with you, I’m just saying that in a just world the mention of a directive issued by the state Supreme Court should be enough to get them moving. 

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1 hour ago, samiam said:

Again, that is nicely written, but it appears to me that Glenn A. Grant's role as Administrative Director of the New Jersey Courts is advisory. I see nothing to suggest that he has any specific authority to force a Superior Court judge to comply with these rules. I suppose that might be different if Chief Justice Stuart Rabner specifically backed him on a particular issue. AFAIK, Rabner has been silent on this issue, and I am skeptical that will change. As CJack wrote, the directive could certainly be used as evidence against the practices of a judge in a lawsuit, but I don't think that an applicant would enjoy much success in using it on his own to pressure a sitting judge to expedite his or her application. I'd be happy to be wrong on this. 

New Jersey Court Rule 1:33 (scroll down to 1:33-3  )

More than anything else, the system has to know regular Joe out there is not some illiterate idiot who can be ignored.  Just like professional standards and internal affairs, its far more important to report incidents than leaving them be, even if we know nothing good may out of it immediately. 

Imagine every applicant out there sending registered mail with a personal statement including this directive attached and request to process their dang application within the timelines outlined.

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3 hours ago, samiam said:

Again, that is nicely written, but it appears to me that Glenn A. Grant's role as Administrative Director of the New Jersey Courts is advisory. I see nothing to suggest that he has any specific authority to force a Superior Court judge to comply with these rules. I suppose that might be different if Chief Justice Stuart Rabner specifically backed him on a particular issue. AFAIK, Rabner has been silent on this issue, and I am skeptical that will change. As CJack wrote, the directive could certainly be used as evidence against the practices of a judge in a lawsuit, but I don't think that an applicant would enjoy much success in using it on his own to pressure a sitting judge to expedite his or her application. I'd be happy to be wrong on this. 

New Jersey Court Rule 1:33 (scroll down to 1:33-3  )

NJ Supreme court ruled unanimously in a case involving this specific directive stating the following: "The Directive was issued pursuant to this Court’s administrative rulemaking authority, see N.J. Const. art. VI § 2, ¶ 3, and is therefore controlling on this issue."

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/01/nj-supreme-court-unanimously-rules-in-favor-of-gun-rights-wait-what/
 

Quote

The Directive was promulgated by the Acting Administrative Director of the Courts at the behest of this Court. See R. 1:33-3 (“At the direction of the Chief Justice and the Supreme Court, the Administrative Director shall promulgate a compilation of administrative rules and directives relating to case processing, records and management information services, personnel, budgeting and such other matters as the Chief Justice and Supreme Court shall direct.”). The Directive is an expression of this Court’s constitutionally granted rule-making authority over all state courts. See N.J. Const. art. VI,
§ 
2, ¶ 3 (“The Supreme Court shall make rules governing the administration of all courts in the State and, subject to the law, the practice and procedure in all such courts.”); see also In re P.L. 2001, Chapter 362, 186 N.J. 368, 381 (2006) (“The Supreme Court’s administrative policies are pronounced through Court opinions, orders, rules, and directives.”).

The Directive’s mandate means that a hearing must be held whenever the court contemplates denying a handgun carry-permit that has been approved by the police chief or superintendent. That mandate is controlling in this case. Because no such hearing was held here, we remand to the Law Division.



 

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