YankeeSC 1,204 Posted July 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, YankeeSC said: IIRC, that only applies to retired LEO, or has that changed? https://www.courthousenews.com/retired-cops-sue-over-new-jersey-gun-restrictions/#:~:text=The state requires retired police,to carry a concealed firearm.&text=In order to obtain the,right to deny any application. https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/rpo-law.shtml 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, xXxplosive said: The US Supreme Court said we can do so.....out side of our home for self-defense purposes....OMO. NJ state law says you can, SCOTUS aside. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, CAL. .30 M1 said: And then when you do - you will most likely get arrested - the government will not adhere to timeframes of automatic 'approval' If he does and he is stopped, how to he establish proof? This is NJ - let's not lose sight of that fact. Carry here will NEVER be like it is in free states that pay attention to their citizens rights. Only issue I see is documenting when you submit your application. Otherwise the law is crystal clear, automatic approval on day 91. Would be even better when they get FARS up and running. Yes, this is NJ... why continue to put up with this crap with both the law and SCOTUS on your side. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted July 7, 2022 Application dropped off today..... Rockaway Twp. 3 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, YankeeSC said: https://www.courthousenews.com/retired-cops-sue-over-new-jersey-gun-restrictions/#:~:text=The state requires retired police,to carry a concealed firearm.&text=In order to obtain the,right to deny any application. https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/rpo-law.shtml Why do they even need an RSO permit now? Seems pointless when standard permits are allowed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJack 138 Posted July 7, 2022 Appreciate if we can reserve this thread for folks sharing their experience with application process, submission and tracking. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldguysrule649 397 Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, sorvanetzsorv said: It's a pity no qualified lawyer has shared their thoughts with us here. Speaking from a non-lawyer perspective, the only direct effect of Bruen on NJ so far is the removal of the justifiable need requirement to obtain permit to carry. The NJ permitting process has been in place for many decades. Any sudden changes to the process, particularly to make it harder, would be legally highly suspect at the moment. The qualification requirement is not well-defined in the current instructions: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/NJSP_WEBSITE_REVISION_FOR_PTC_v2.pdf The current official state document that lists the qualification courses of fire is at: https://nj.gov/lps/dcj/pdfs/dcj-firearms.pdf Many people find the first qualification course of fire - HQC1 - on page 35 of that document and make a rushed judgment that this is what should be expected from civilians as well. In my opinion, this is a wrong judgment for many reasons. First of all, the test is clearly designed for service sized handguns carried by most law enforcement officers. I would venture a guess that a good number of these officers might not be able to pass HQC1 using a snubnosed revolver. Note also that law enforcement officers must repeat qualifications every six months. According to the current rules, the qualifications for permit to carry are only repeated every two years. It seems that the currently existing guidance which is most closely related to permit to carry qualifications is the qualification course of fire for RETIRED law enforcement officers that can be found on page 79 of the above document. This point of view is also supported by the fact that the only NJ state guidance about authorized qualification instructors is the list of ranges that are authorized to provide RPO qualifications: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/shooting-ranges.shtml I think that the current RTSP qualification course of fire most closely resembles the RPO qualification course of fire on page 79 in the document linked above. Very well stated and exactly matches my logic as well. (Also similarly expressed by cjack many posts back in this thread). Logic and precedent strongly imply that RPO quals (page 79) would be adequate given it has been the standard for retired LEOs since at least 2003. Any action by the state to require anything more stringent(e.g. HQC) would negatively impact not just normal citizens but also all the existing and future retire police officers. My personal plan, at least at this point in time, is to practice the RPO Qual CoF using an FBI Q target(on order from “The Target Shop”), and in due course likely take the quals at RTSP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, JackDaWack said: Only issue I see is documenting when you submit your application. Otherwise the law is crystal clear, automatic approval on day 91. Would be even better when they get FARS up and running. Yes, this is NJ... why continue to put up with this crap with both the law and SCOTUS on your side. If you are willing take that 'chance' at day 91 - you are a better man than I am - because the GOV has more resources, money and time than you do - and while you may 'win' your time and pain to do so might not be worth the effort. Again being NJ, or anywhere - I would not want to be incarcerated and have to face the financial and emotional expenditure - just because some paragraph says 90days that no one is going to pay attention to. My question to you is - why aren't you then just carrying now? The 2a is your carry permit - right? ( I am being sarcastic ) I know you are not that foolish, but hey you never know what some will do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, JackDaWack said: Otherwise the law is crystal clear, automatic approval on day 91. Where are you seeing that? I saw the part that says that 60 days after submitting the app, if the police have not approved or denied, it is approved by default. I cannot see anything that says how long the court has after that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 822 Posted July 7, 2022 29 minutes ago, CAL. .30 M1 said: If you are willing take that 'chance' at day 91 - you are a better man than I am - because the GOV has more resources, money and time than you do - and while you may 'win' your time and pain to do so might not be worth the effort. Again being NJ, or anywhere - I would not want to be incarcerated and have to face the financial and emotional expenditure - just because some paragraph says 90days that no one is going to pay attention to. My question to you is - why aren't you then just carrying now? The 2a is your carry permit - right? ( I am being sarcastic ) I know you are not that foolish, but hey you never know what some will do. So....Ya think that's foolish. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said: Where are you seeing that? I saw the part that says that 60 days after submitting the app, if the police have not approved or denied, it is approved by default. I cannot see anything that says how long the court has after that. Its 60 days, don't say police, it references someone in the county. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted July 7, 2022 28 minutes ago, xXxplosive said: So....Ya think that's foolish. What I thinking foolish, others might not. I am not going to risk my freedom or ability to own arms in free states, by getting collared in a liberal state, where constitutional carry is not codified in state law .....regardless of what SCOTUS, USCONN ETC.....says..... Ymmv... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntingPaper 62 Posted July 7, 2022 Dropped my application on Tuesday and tomorrow getting fingerprints. West Orange. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted July 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: On the subject of what CoF should be used for quals, the statute and Admin Code are silent on what the CoF should be, or even any guidance as to what skills it is supposed to test. I am planning to start running quals - I have 2 volunteers to be guinea pigs to verify that my NRA Basic Pistol Instructor cert is sufficient to sign off on quals. From my liability perspective, I am going to use HQC1 and HNQC. If someone I have signed off on is involved in an incident I wouldn't be surprised if they come looking for me to see whether the person really was properly qualified. If I can point to the CoF and say that is is the same that LEO and RPO use, I think I have a better chance of avoiding liability than if I used some other CoF that I just made up on my own. I also already have firearms instructor liability insurance. I would think that if the score sheet or certification record, or whatever it's called, includes a clear description of what CoF was used, the state would have a hard time coming after you if they accepted that CoF to issue a permit. The defense would be "It was the CoF that you approved when you approved the application". 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted July 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said: I would think that if the score sheet or certification record, or whatever it's called, includes a clear description of what CoF was used, the state would have a hard time coming after you if they accepted that CoF to issue a permit. The defense would be "It was the CoF that you approved when you approved the application". Good point, but I'm also lazy like to be efficient. Why write up a whole page describing a CoF when I can achieve the same thing with 11 characters and 2 spaces? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted July 7, 2022 Do we leave question 27 blank? I answered "No" to 26, so do i leave 27 blank? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted July 7, 2022 If I answered yes to 26, I would answer yes or no to 27. Otherwise, I would write N/A for does not apply. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 473 Posted July 7, 2022 ***DELETED*** 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJack 138 Posted July 7, 2022 Submitted my application today at local PD. They were very accommodating. I showed up at the scheduled time. Same requirements as listed in NJSP site. The officer made copies of the passport, DL, firearm ownership (P2P). On to scheduling fingerprinting. PD gave me a "Contributor Case #" that has no name etc, just numbers. The officer said its their own internal tracking # and its better that way. Application Date: Jul 7th, 2022 Location: Local PD Requirements: As noted in NJSP standard application Quals Included: HCQ-1 and Use Of Force (RealoaderZNJ Range) Finger Printing Date: Pending 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brandyep 2 Posted July 7, 2022 3 hours ago, HuntingPaper said: Dropped my application on Tuesday and tomorrow getting fingerprints. West Orange. What is the name of the place you are getting fingerprints. My pd told me to use identgo and they are all booked out for weeks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted July 8, 2022 42 minutes ago, Brandyep said: What is the name of the place you are getting fingerprints. My pd told me to use identgo and they are all booked out for weeks The name of the company that has the exclusive contract is Identogo. If you're willing to pay the $39.95 upcharge for out of State processing, you can find plenty of open appointments in neighboring States. I went to Easton, PA, and had no trouble getting a quick appointment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ToddD 59 Posted July 8, 2022 Had to go to one in Philly. Made my appointment yesterday evening for today. Had to pay out of state fee but I was looking at a 30+ day wait for a nj faculty. Sucks but felt it was worth it. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 822 Posted July 8, 2022 You can always do this instead...... Nappen: Thank you for your interest in the New Jersey Permit to Carry a Handgun Fixed Flat Fee Legal Assistance Package. Many people do not realize that the New Jersey Permit to Carry a Handgun “NJPCH” is issued by a New Jersey Superior Court Judge. After the application is investigated by the Chief of Police or Superintendent of State Police (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) “CLEO”, regardless of whether they approve or deny the application, it needs to go to the New Jersey Superior Court “NJSC” to proceed further. The CLEO is required by law to approve or deny the permit within 60 days. Otherwise, it is deemed approved, but it still needs to go to the NJSC Judge who is the issuing authority and retains full authority to approve or deny. Sometimes there is unreasonable delay by the CLEO in forwarding the application to the Court within the 60 days. The Law Firm will work to compel compliance. Once your application is approved by the CLEO, the application is required to be forwarded to the NJSC where a Judge will decide whether to issue your Permit. Before deciding whether to issue your NJPCH, the Judge may require a hearing. Additionally, if the CLEO denies your application, then a hearing must be requested by the applicant to the NJSC. The Law Firm will make the request on your behalf should you be denied. The Law Firm will represent you at all times during this process and at Court. The application process often involves a hearing before a NJSC Judge before deciding whether to issue your NJPCH. It is not advisable to go to Court without an attorney. Many people have contacted our Law Firm seeking legal representation on obtaining a NJPCH. Due to this demand, the Law Firm is pleased to offer a fixed flat fee legal services package that not only includes assisting our client with the entire process of applying for a NJPCH, but also includes representation at NJSC, if necessary, throughout the process. At an hourly rate, legal services can quickly add up. This fixed flat fee package gives our clients the peace of mind to know exactly what these legal services will cost and to know that they are getting personal assistance from our Law Firm with this complicated process. The fixed flat fee is $5,000. If you are interested in retaining the firm, please call our office at 732-389-8888 and say you want the Fixed Flat Fee NJPCH Legal Assistance Package. Fixed Flat Fee NJPCH Legal Assistance Package Includes: Advice and assistance on completing the application form. Advice on how to remove potential firearm possession disqualifiers.* Advice on fingerprinting procedures. Recommendation of Range Facilities that meet the requirements. In-house Notary service to maintain privacy of your application. In-house Passport photos to maintain privacy of your application. Compel compliance with the 60-day time limit to initially process your application by your CLEO. Representation in New Jersey Superior Court for an Appeal of a Denial by your CLEO. Representation in NJSC if your CLEO approves, but the NJSC still requires a hearing on the application. Follow up to make sure permit is properly and timely issued by the Court. *Rights Restoration legal services may incur additional fees. 1 1 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted July 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, xXxplosive said: You can always do this instead...... Nappen: Thank you for your interest in the New Jersey Permit to Carry a Handgun Fixed Flat Fee Legal Assistance Package. Many people do not realize that the New Jersey Permit to Carry a Handgun “NJPCH” is issued by a New Jersey Superior Court Judge. After the application is investigated by the Chief of Police or Superintendent of State Police (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) “CLEO”, regardless of whether they approve or deny the application, it needs to go to the New Jersey Superior Court “NJSC” to proceed further. The CLEO is required by law to approve or deny the permit within 60 days. Otherwise, it is deemed approved, but it still needs to go to the NJSC Judge who is the issuing authority and retains full authority to approve or deny. Sometimes there is unreasonable delay by the CLEO in forwarding the application to the Court within the 60 days. The Law Firm will work to compel compliance. Once your application is approved by the CLEO, the application is required to be forwarded to the NJSC where a Judge will decide whether to issue your Permit. Before deciding whether to issue your NJPCH, the Judge may require a hearing. Additionally, if the CLEO denies your application, then a hearing must be requested by the applicant to the NJSC. The Law Firm will make the request on your behalf should you be denied. The Law Firm will represent you at all times during this process and at Court. The application process often involves a hearing before a NJSC Judge before deciding whether to issue your NJPCH. It is not advisable to go to Court without an attorney. Many people have contacted our Law Firm seeking legal representation on obtaining a NJPCH. Due to this demand, the Law Firm is pleased to offer a fixed flat fee legal services package that not only includes assisting our client with the entire process of applying for a NJPCH, but also includes representation at NJSC, if necessary, throughout the process. At an hourly rate, legal services can quickly add up. This fixed flat fee package gives our clients the peace of mind to know exactly what these legal services will cost and to know that they are getting personal assistance from our Law Firm with this complicated process. The fixed flat fee is $5,000. If you are interested in retaining the firm, please call our office at 732-389-8888 and say you want the Fixed Flat Fee NJPCH Legal Assistance Package. Fixed Flat Fee NJPCH Legal Assistance Package Includes: Advice and assistance on completing the application form. Advice on how to remove potential firearm possession disqualifiers.* Advice on fingerprinting procedures. Recommendation of Range Facilities that meet the requirements. In-house Notary service to maintain privacy of your application. In-house Passport photos to maintain privacy of your application. Compel compliance with the 60-day time limit to initially process your application by your CLEO. Representation in New Jersey Superior Court for an Appeal of a Denial by your CLEO. Representation in NJSC if your CLEO approves, but the NJSC still requires a hearing on the application. Follow up to make sure permit is properly and timely issued by the Court. *Rights Restoration legal services may incur additional fees. Not even cheap at half the price! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted July 8, 2022 5k, well if that doesn't speak volumes, i do not know what does..... Welcome to NJ, where the charlatans rule....5k..lol.... that buys a lot of burgerbusy.... in NH, hey chubby ubsy.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntingPaper 62 Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Brandyep said: What is the name of the place you are getting fingerprints. My pd told me to use identgo and they are all booked out for weeks I’m doing it at Identgo too, I had to book an appointment in Brooklyn. There’s no appointments in NJ for weeks. They have offices in NY and PA too. They charge and extra $39 fir out of state prints Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted July 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: The name of the company that has the exclusive contract is Identogo. If you're willing to pay the $39.95 upcharge for out of State processing, you can find plenty of open appointments in neighboring States. I went to Easton, PA, and had no trouble getting a quick appointment. Thanks for posting your play by play experiences so far, I even printed out your "this is what I did" earlier post as a punch list for myself. If I could I have two questions for you at this time. The first is what is PtPP? Next is a comment/question. I’m going to go through the app process gradually but wondering about the sequence of the step? I’d like to do the Qualification requirement first then assemble the apps & photos and finger prints last. Do you see any issues going that path? Thanks in advance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted July 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, FXDX said: Thanks for posting your play by play experiences so far, I even printed out your "this is what I did" earlier post as a punch list for myself. If I could I have two questions for you at this time. The first is what is PtPP? Next is a comment/question. I’m going to go through the app process gradually but wondering about the sequence of the step? I’d like to do the Qualification requirement first then assemble the apps & photos and finger prints last. Do you see any issues going that path? Thanks in advance PtPP is a permit to purchase a pistol. If you don't already have a handgun you're going to need one of those to acquire the gun you intend to carry. Doing the quals ahead of time is what I did. I actually did it before the Bruen decision came out as I was sure it would be issued soon and the quals are good so long as they were done no more than 6 months before the application is submitted. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 473 Posted July 8, 2022 ***DELETED*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted July 8, 2022 38 minutes ago, samiam said: I don't blame Nappen, I blame NJ politicians for making the process such a convoluted mess. He probably figures that there will be a few people wanting NJ PtC who are willing to fork over that kind of money to streamline the process. Nobody is being forced to take advantage of that offer. If he or his colleagues in this get $250/hour for their time, which might be low for engaging a skilled, specialized attorney these days, that's 20 hours, including appeals, and potentially, court time. I do blame Nappen, while capitalism rules, and I am all for it....he and others like him have profited very well over the plight of NJ Gun owners..... That was my point of an similar post....at least Colandro is charging a fair and equitable amount of money for the quals... That attorneys price is egregious IMO....for what might ought NOT need to be done. Talk about taking advantage - what about the poor woman single two kids that needs a CCW, is he going to 'rape' her financially too? Caveat emptor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites