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NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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4 hours ago, IhateNJ said:

LOL seriously you need lawshield to tell you how to get out of jury duty? Jury duty is the most basic and easy thing to avoid and I got perm removed from the jury duty pool with one simple statement  Just tell them you will use Jury nullification and nullify. Watch how fast they dismiss you and you'll probably never be selected again. I was selected once about 10+ years ago. I told them I dont have time for this crap and the second im selected the DA will get a loss as I will  nullify just out of spite for wasting my time.  I was told I was dismissed and didn;t have to show up and have never seen another jury duty slip again. 

 

Before anyone spouts that its your "civic duty" blah blah yea just like its their duty to uphold and support the constitution and here we are now still begging to carry (all that money spent and the permit is only good for a laughable 2 years) and they are still playing games with the permits and restrictions.  As far as im concerned its only fair to do on to them as they do on to us 

Your civic duty is to your fellow citizens, not the court.  Your beef is with the state legislators, not the citizens.  Those who dodge jury duty don’t deserve a jury.  

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4 hours ago, IhateNJ said:

LOL seriously you need lawshield to tell you how to get out of jury duty? Jury duty is the most basic and easy thing to avoid and I got perm removed from the jury duty pool with one simple statement  Just tell them you will use Jury nullification and nullify. Watch how fast they dismiss you and you'll probably never be selected again. I was selected once about 10+ years ago. I told them I dont have time for this crap and the second im selected the DA will get a loss as I will  nullify just out of spite for wasting my time.  I was told I was dismissed and didn;t have to show up and have never seen another jury duty slip again. 

 

Before anyone spouts that its your "civic duty" blah blah yea just like its their duty to uphold and support the constitution and here we are now still begging to carry (all that money spent and the permit is only good for a laughable 2 years) and they are still playing games with the permits and restrictions.  As far as im concerned its only fair to do on to them as they do on to us 

Yall may hate me for this.  And this topic of the thread has gone way off.  But.  Ill do jury duty when they reinstitute the draft or make military duty absolute. 

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3 hours ago, samiam said:

You think a competent prosecutor wouldn't break his ass to get any 2A supporter thrown off of a jury for a case involving the possession or use of firearms for legitimate self-defense?

The attorneys will eventually run out of objections and dismissals to boot a potential juror.  When selection gets near the end of the process, it’s likely that the defense will wind up with the final juror favorable to their side.  The selection process is quite interesting, and has spawned a whole profession.  

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On 9/14/2022 at 11:48 AM, samiam said:

I still disagree about the meaning that is reasonably ascribed to "review", even in the context of the NJ court system. However, I do completely agree about the near-term effectiveness of the 30 day deadline. The only external pressure to enforce that would likely need to come in the form of a lawsuit on behalf of a delayed applicant (or applicants), with the help of ANJRPC or a similar organization, and that would take many months t come to fruition, at least. The only other way that deadline gets any teeth is if someone who is employed within the court system and has some real clout raised a complaint about it not being met. That would probably need to be Grant, or Rabner, and I doubt that either one has expediting citizen carry near the top of his to-do list...

Judges are swamped with cases.  I highly doubt that they will needlessly delay the review of carry permit applications, as that would result in more cases to enforce the 30 day timeframe to deny or approve applications.  Courts are already under pressure to move their case loads.  They’re not going to pile on more cases when they already have a ton of criminal and civil cases pending.  

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42 minutes ago, LeaveNJ said:

Your civic duty is to your fellow citizens, not the court.  Your beef is with the state legislators, not the citizens.  Those who dodge jury duty don’t deserve a jury.  

I'm not dodging it. I quite literally can't afford to take a day off. Plus, I've done it twice in 10 years. I get one of these almost every year, it's just terrible timing right now. 

 

I think quite a few of you are misunderstanding my concerns. 

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4 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Honestly your only hurting the defendant vs the overreaching state.... Imagine some BS gun charge like someone caught with a loose hollow point in their car.... As a juror YOU could protect a defendant's constitutional rights from state overreach with your vote. But now the poor defendant will have to face a bundle of anti gun, uber liberals....

 

Yes jury duty is a pain in the ass and every time I've been selected fortunately I haven't had to go however I would have, and I would have upheld the US constitution.

Yes, who's making my mortgage payment though? Think the bank will feel bad for me?

 

5 hours ago, IhateNJ said:

LOL seriously you need lawshield to tell you how to get out of jury duty? Jury duty is the most basic and easy thing to avoid and I got perm removed from the jury duty pool with one simple statement  Just tell them you will use Jury nullification and nullify. Watch how fast they dismiss you and you'll probably never be selected again. I was selected once about 10+ years ago. I told them I dont have time for this crap and the second im selected the DA will get a loss as I will  nullify just out of spite for wasting my time.  I was told I was dismissed and didn;t have to show up and have never seen another jury duty slip again. 

 

Before anyone spouts that its your "civic duty" blah blah yea just like its their duty to uphold and support the constitution and here we are now still begging to carry (all that money spent and the permit is only good for a laughable 2 years) and they are still playing games with the permits and restrictions.  As far as im concerned its only fair to do on to them as they do on to us 

No, again my concern is that if I use the medical excuse and then have to go in front of a judge for my carry permit, can't they use that against me? Example: Can't do jury duty becuase of such and such ailment, but you want to carry a gun? You see what I'm saying?

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6 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

Yes, who's making my mortgage payment though? Think the bank will feel bad for me?

 

No, again my concern is that if I use the medical excuse and then have to go in front of a judge for my carry permit, can't they use that against me? Example: Can't do jury duty becuase of such and such ailment, but you want to carry a gun? You see what I'm saying?

Dude. Get some balls man. Tell em f off. I cant.  Ill loose money.  Your 5$ a day wont cut it.  Find some other retired or state worker schmuck. Btw.  I like your hillary pick in your bio.  Please explain 

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3 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

Yes, who's making my mortgage payment though? Think the bank will feel bad for me?

 

No, again my concern is that if I use the medical excuse and then have to go in front of a judge for my carry permit, can't they use that against me? Example: Can't do jury duty becuase of such and such ailment, but you want to carry a gun? You see what I'm saying?

I’m sure there are many people who can’t afford to give up a few days of work for jury duty.  It sucks, but would you want a jury from only the segment of society that can afford to take time off?  I would rather have a jury that’s more representative of society in general.  If it’s a true hardship, than I guess you’ll have to prove your case to the judge.  

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9 hours ago, Golf battery said:

Dude. Get some balls man. Tell em f off. I cant.  Ill loose money.  Your 5$ a day wont cut it.  Find some other retired or state worker schmuck. Btw.  I like your hillary pick in your bio.  Please explain 

LMFAO I photo-shopped Groucho Marx glasses on her back when Epstein turned up dead. I forgot that was on here. 

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Day 50 I called Berkley Township PD this morning My file is still sitting in a stack waiting for the Chiefs signature was told the same thing last Friday. Kim said I'm probably looking at another week She said there's over 100 Applications. She has not received any info from the Court on any of the Apps already sent in. ZERO PERMITS ISSUED SO FAR IN BERKLEY

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24 minutes ago, Shortfuse said:

Day 50 I called Berkley Township PD this morning My file is still sitting in a stack waiting for the Chiefs signature was told the same thing last Friday. Kim said I'm probably looking at another week She said there's over 100 Applications. She has not received any info from the Court on any of the Apps already sent in. ZERO PERMITS ISSUED SO FAR IN BERKLEY

Day 47 here. Same boat. What's odd is that I know 3 people, that submitted 2 & 3 weeks after me and they received a call stating their app was sent to the court. And it's so strange that ocean county would approve and issue permits to toms river and Manchester, but nothing to berkeley. IDFKWGO

They also just took 46 days to issue me my pistol purchase permits. 

Fun times.

@Lostboy check your private messages. 

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I also just waited 45 days for 2 permits executed the first immediately waited 4 days for NICS then bought another pistol that's been sitting at the FFL for a month waiting for the 30 days between handguns that was up on the 12th so permit was executed FFL told me Nics was 7 days behind as of Monday the 12th want to ad this gun to CCW just have to wait for Nics then go qualify again ( This will be my Third qual I'm paying for because of the permit wait time and the 30 days between handguns.

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Heard back from Evans office, as long as I disclosed that I'm diabetic on my application there's possibly a very small risk but if it is denied, then I'm going to be stuck fighting it. So to be on the safe side im probably just going to do the jury duty. Thanks for all the comments. No need to further derail. 

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1 hour ago, Shortfuse said:

Day 50 I called Berkley Township PD this morning My file is still sitting in a stack waiting for the Chiefs signature was told the same thing last Friday. Kim said I'm probably looking at another week She said there's over 100 Applications. She has not received any info from the Court on any of the Apps already sent in. ZERO PERMITS ISSUED SO FAR IN BERKLEY

I believe we are in the same boat...First I will say, Kim, Marcy, all the people in the customer facing room for firearms are doing a fantastic job given the situation. Always friendly, always helpful in things they can control...

My 3 witnesses were all called as of 8/31. I was assuming a week each for the Sargent and Chief to sign off, and when someone posted a batch went out on 9/12 I was wondering why I didn't get my call. So I called the other day. They are very overwhelmed.

And this isn't going to get any better any time soon so I do sympathies with those folks in the "front desk"...

The fix is to drop the entire judge sign-off, with no more just.-need there is no need for a judge X-cases where PD doesn't approve permit and gun owner wants a hearing. This will give extra time for the PDs WHILE Lowering the overall start/finish time by some months.

If I don't hear by 10/5 (2 months since I dropped off my app) I'll call PD again, but overall,  a few weeks isn't going to matter and I hope by time the judge gets to ours the car-carry restriction nonsense is no more...The way it looks, the judge is going to be taking at least 2 months more likely 3+ for their interval.

C.A.

 

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10 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

But this is exactly what happens when a basic right to SD against serious bodily injury and death outside the home is repressed for over 100 years. People want their rights back asap.

And if all the initial permits get issued the same day/week this go round — what fun it will be two years from now when all those permits need to be renewed all at the same time!

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The renewal process in two years will probably be a lot different for better or worse, no way it remains as-is. The biggest factor that I see will be the number and severity of events involving the initial batch of PTCs. Sorting out the problems encountered now with local PDs reluctance to process applications and the mixed, uneven judges' orders will be a big enough challenge.  

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2 minutes ago, ShootersShooter said:

The renewal process in two years will probably be a lot different for better or worse, no way it remains as-is. The biggest factor that I see will be the number and severity of events involving the initial batch of PTCs. Sorting out the problems encountered now with local PDs reluctance to process applications and the mixed, uneven judges' orders will be a big enough challenge.  

it needs to be implemented into FARS asap

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Does anyone have any information on how things are going in Passaic County, specifically, West Milford.  I dropped my application off to PD on Monday.  Getting my fingerprints done next week.  I was surprised when I dropped off the paperwork, I offered my DL and Passport and she said it was not necessary.

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1 hour ago, ShootersShooter said:

The renewal process in two years will probably be a lot different for better or worse, no way it remains as-is. The biggest factor that I see will be the number and severity of events involving the initial batch of PTCs. Sorting out the problems encountered now with local PDs reluctance to process applications and the mixed, uneven judges' orders will be a big enough challenge.  

If we dig back 50 or 75 pages, some fellow who had a work related permit said he starts the process months before his permit expires. And that was when there was no one applying except armored truck and RPO.

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My thoughts on the "delay" in Middlesex County

1) As far as anyone knows -- Other than money orders being cashed there is no action yet on any post-Bruen carry permit out of Middlesex County;

2) The 30 day deadline for at least some police department approved applications received at Middlesex County Court is fast approaching -- But as far as we have heard, the 30 day deadline has not passed for any particular application;

3) The Middlesex Judge responsible for permits is well informed of all the applicable statutes, regulations, Directives and Court Decisions impacting the 30 deadline for approving, denying or holding a hearing on a police department approved carry permit application;

4) My flat out guess (and your guess is a s good as mine) is that the Middlesex Judge is waiting until the 30 day deadline arrives for the first PD approved application received by the Court to see if there is any: Legislative Action, advice from the State Police, or directive from the New Jersey Supreme Court. 

5) Absent any unforeseen circumstance, I expect a flood of approved applications coming out of the Middlesex Superior Court in the next 2 weeks.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, samiam said:

A few weeks may or may not matter to each of us, individually. But we very much need to keep poliite pressure on the people processing these applications to make sure that they will, in turn, pressure their bosses, and any other state functionaries that they come in contact with, to fix the damned process. That includes the legislature removing justiiable need and the judges' role from the statute and the process. Is that 100% fair to the staff doing the processing? Maybe not, but, beyond legal action that will almost certainly grind for months, or possibly years, it is wthat we have at our disposal. You or I didn't create this system or have any real voice in its implementation, and it's the job of those staff members to make it work. 

Yikes! I can only speak about the staffers at Berkley, they are working very, very, hard...And I am sorry, I can't agree with you that the process lies on them to fix...You know they have no control over it... I am sure they are reporting to bossed about the situation, but it is up to the bosses all the way up to the NJ-AG, along with us doing our part with by contacting officials and making DONATIONs to ANJRPC/2A lawyers, and the lawyers like Nappen to fix it....My goodness, I am not going to blame the people on the bottom of this mega- hierarchy for a 100+ years of neglect on this matter in NJ.

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1 hour ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

My thoughts on the "delay" in Middlesex County

1) As far as anyone knows -- Other than money orders being cashed there is no action yet on any post-Bruen carry permit out of Middlesex County;

2) The 30 day deadline for at least some police department approved applications received at Middlesex County Court is fast approaching -- But as far as we have heard, the 30 day deadline has not passed for any particular application;

3) The Middlesex Judge responsible for permits is well informed of all the applicable statutes, regulations, Directives and Court Decisions impacting the 30 deadline for approving, denying or holding a hearing on a police department approved carry permit application;

4) My flat out guess (and your guess is a s good as mine) is that the Middlesex Judge is waiting until the 30 day deadline arrives for the first PD approved application received by the Court to see if there is any: Legislative Action, advice from the State Police, or directive from the New Jersey Supreme Court. 

5) Absent any unforeseen circumstance, I expect a flood of approved applications coming out of the Middlesex Superior Court in the next 2 weeks.

 

 

1) Correct, I spoke to the court on the 6th and was told at that time that no one has received a carry permit in our county.

2) Yes, that we know of.

3) That has not been verified for sure, there is no guarantee that we won't have to take legal action to move things forward. There is also differing statements on who the judge will be. 

4) I hope your right, my application has not exceeded 30 days.

5) It would have to as I expect that there are hundreds if not thousands that will be nearing or exceeding the 30-day mark at this point. Once again, I hope you are correct.

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19 minutes ago, marlintag said:

A positive update in Middlesex. 

I received notice that my check was cashed. 

 

 

While that is probably good news, Sussex cashed my money order three weeks ago. They had my app since early August. They told me they are holding apps awaiting guidance. One step closer but not quite there yet. 

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