NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[RadioGunner 218]

I was told today by a friend who is a retired superior court judge that the courts simply don’t have the manpower for this. To begin with they have a shortage of judges to handle criminal cases which take top priority and civil cases (which these are) fall at a lower priority. So I suspect we may be waiting a while or something will have to give. 

[RadioGunner 218]

30 minutes ago, CJack said:

This is going around on InterWebs. Dont know if its legit.. Supposedly a NJSP letter to PDs.

 

https://imgur.com/a/CRiMXjZ

Looks suspect but there are some truths and non truths.

NJ notaries aren’t issued anything other than their commission certificate. We can get a stamp and a raised seal on our own but it’s not required by NJ.

”One qual to rule them all” aligns with NJ statutes. No need to qual with multiple guns or a specific gun. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

27 minutes ago, samiam said:

The phrase is "case in point". By which I assume you refer to the Nappen offer which another user posted here. "Fear mongering" is the use of exaggerations or outright falsehoods to convince someone to do something they would otherwise be unlikely to do. Please cite examples from that offer that meet that definition. The only statements that I see in the posted offer that are at all debatable are: "It is not advisable to go to Court without an attorney." and "At an hourly rate, legal services can quickly add up." The first statement almost certainly would be affirmed by any attorney in private practice, and while I do not agree 100% (I have represented myself on several occasions) I think that it is a reasonable rule of thumb for the general public. I would be highly unlikely to go to NJ court on a serious gun law matter without an attorney. The second statement is somewhat subjective, but is no doubt also true in many or most cases, even if it's "engineered" to come out that way. Quantity discounting as a lure to get a customer to purchase a higher quantity of some good or service than he or she really needs isn't exactly a novel marketing practice in most any kind of market...

I have bought two of his NJ Gun Law books over the past 12 years, and while I thought the price was a little steep ("a little" because low-sales-volume books will always be priced quite a bit higher than high-volume books) I found them to be useful because they aggregated information on a complex topic that was (at the time) difficult or impossible to find at a competing single source. 

Do you have an example of "overtly confusing gunowners or making them so scared to drive to a gun to a range that they feel they need to pay a lawyer so as to properly transport firearm"? If you mean a direct cite of NJ law on transporting firearms, that is hardly fearmongering on the part of the person making the cite. 

You and a few other posters here hate Nappen, I get it. Maybe he deserves that, but at this point I am not privy to sufficient evidence to justify sharing that opinion. So don't expect to recruit me to join in just on your say so. And now I'm shutting up, because this thread has been dragged more than far enough from its focus (for which I am as guilty as anyone).

Who is recruiting anyone to hate Nappen? Where did I say I hated him and you should too? 

He is a lawyer, he makes money selling lawyer things. 

I simply pointed out he attempts to sell services and information to people that really isn't needed. Yet he does it under the pretense if you don't heed my advice you could end up in jail. 

When I started purchasing firearms and going to ranges it was never apparent to me I needed to pay for any services by a lawyer, book or otherwise. 

The state offers basic FAQs on everything you would need to know, and in some cases his advice was beyond statutory language. 

This was the guy who tried to tell everyone you couldn't transport a loaded mag, you would go to jail. 

He has a very close relationship with ANJRPC, the emails they send out for his seminars are almost non stop. 

He is well known, and paraded as the TOP gun lawyer in NJ, it's really just that he the most prominent. 

Anyone seeking services from a lawyer should have a consultation in regards to what steps are needed to file an appeal or force action, sometimes that requires a simple letter of intent. In the past, NJ2AS was providing these letters for free.. this guy's wants 5 grand? A 5k retainer isn't much if you are looking at someone spending hours of their time. A basic consultation should be done to determine what costs are going to be incurred. 

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[Kingsoverqueens 10]

Thanks to everyone who is sharing their real life world experience in this process.  Very much appreciated. 

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[xXxplosive 823]

saw that............but I dunno.

[ShootersShooter 120]

 From Evan Nappan, Attorney. 

How long should it take for the Chief or the Superintendent to approve or deny an application prior to it going to the Superior Court for final disposition by a Judge?

A:  The application must be approved or denied within 60 days of filing. If the application is not approved or denied within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed approved by the Chief or Superintendent unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing.

[voyager9 3,434]

21 minutes ago, ShootersShooter said:

The application must be approved or denied within 60 days of filing.

Just like FPID and P2P must be approved within 30..

[RadioGunner 218]

1 hour ago, samiam said:

There was a previous observation from another notary (in this thread or the one on Bruen) that claimed that raised seals were becoming hard to procure. I have no idea whether or not that is true. [added} That was in response to a claim that in some cases applications without the raised notary imprint were being rejected on that basis. 

If so they are possibly violating NJ law. NJ does not require notaries to do anything but sign and witness the signature. Any stamps, raised or foil seals are extra and not even standard practice or prescribed under NJ law. I am a bank notary and all I ever do is sign. I have a stamp just to make it official but it isn't required. 

[PK90 3,570]

49 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Just like FPID and P2P must be approved within 30..

No consequences for the FPID or P2P.

 

[CJack 138]

1 minute ago, RadioGunner said:

If so they are possibly violating NJ law. NJ does not require notaries to do anything but sign and witness the signature. Any stamps, raised or foil seals are extra and not even standard practice or prescribed under NJ law. I am a bank notary and all I ever do is sign. I have a stamp just to make it official but it isn't required. 

My notary guy went overboard with stamp and raised seal. The seal was pressed so hard that it actually made hole through the paper.  LOL. The officer who took in the app was like "wow, what is this, a raised seal".

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

Just like FPID and P2P must be approved within 30..

A judge in NJ has provided relief for that specific statutory requirement, not this one. I beleive someone sued that they hadn't recieved their permits of FPID within 30 days. 

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[JackDaWack 2,895]

13 minutes ago, samiam said:

But the judge apparently can sit on it indefinitely.

It's not clear what role the judge plays here anymore. In the past, the judge was only responsible for determining the justifiable need after the application was approved by the authorizing chief of police, and any limitations placed on the license. With that gone, what roll a judge serves is procedural if even that. 

SCOTUS essential removed every part of our permitting process past the chief of police. 

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[CJack 138]

18 minutes ago, samiam said:

.....I noticed that clicking on the "no" checkboxes produced very different renditions of an "X" mark in different boxes. Some of those "X"s pretty nearly filled the box, some were tiny, and the one for "no" to juvenile adjudication looked more like a dot than an "X". .....

Same experience here. I simply went over them with pen. Extra signed copies doesnt hurt, as one of the references made mistake on date on one of them, so always good to have extra.

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[CJack 138]

6 minutes ago, samiam said:

Another item I noticed in completing the application is that the only dates are for the sponsors' signatures and the notarization. When Identogo's fingerprint scheduling process requests a Contributor Case Number that consists partly of the "application date" Is that is the notarization date? If so it would appear that I should get my sponsors to sign and get the three copies notarized before I schedule fingerprinting. That could be an inconvenience when fingerprinting is seriously backlogged. Have I missed something here? Is it possible that the "application date" used in the CCN isn't actually on the form at all, and it only needs to be reasonably close to the date I turn the paperwork in?

Are you submitting to NJSP ? If so, ask them.  My local PD gave me a contributor case # thats nothing like the lastname-date format thats been going around.

[xXxplosive 823]

Why would a Certified Instructor here pay someone else hundreds of dollars to qualify him......just wondering if a Cert. Instructor could submit his own paperwork as long as he has a Witness signed and Notarized documents.............

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[JackDaWack 2,895]

Are people experiencing long wait times for finger printing. My wife had to get them a month ago and got an appointment within a week. 

[Kdin1 11]

40 minutes ago, samiam said:

Already did that. My Woodbine NJSP contact handed me a "cheat sheet" that shows a CCN composed of applicant surname followed by application date. Now, by phone (later that day) the officer at their new "Firearms" extension told me that, to the best of his understanding, no application would be rejected because the fingerprinting was received long after the application date (that seems to imply that they don't plan to enforce the requirement in the A. S. that prints be received within 90 days of submitting the application). But that was when I was assuming that there was an actual "master" date on the application. I guess I am going to go with the idea that the date part of the CCN doesn't need to "hard correlate" with any of the other dates. They cannot be using it as the only identifier, I have a common surname, and there could be dozens of others with it getting notarized or submitting on the same day. There is no lack of additional identifying information on the application form itself. 

Can provide a copy of the cheat sheet 

[CJack 138]

14 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Are people experiencing long wait times for finger printing. My wife had to get them a month ago and got an appointment within a week. 

Pretty much every facility in NJ is booked atleast a week out.  PA and NY are available. I went to NewCity, NY.. got appt next day.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

2 hours ago, CJack said:

Pretty much every facility in NJ is booked atleast a week out.  PA and NY are available. I went to NewCity, NY.. got appt next day.

A week isn't really that bad. Both times I had to get fingerprints I had about a 3 week wait, this was over 10 years ago though. 

[CJack 138]

12 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

A week isn't really that bad. Both times I had to get fingerprints I had about a 3 week wait, this was over 10 years ago though. 

Yeah, not sure if this is NJ thing. The lady in NewCity said lot of people are trying to get the fingerprints done, govt jobs, school teachers etc.. I did peak at the screen with list of people for that day and  atleast 10 were from NJ for firearms related fingerprinting.