Mixed level pistol class

[Matroskin 29]

Could you please recommend a pistol or mixed rifle/pistol class that will be: 

1. suitable for mixed level shooters?

2. Still going to happen this year, August - September preferable?

3. Up to 2 hours drive from North Jersey.

I'm aware of S&T classes but I think we missed the boat this year.

Any suggestions are welcome. A bit of background, we have a group of 4 ppl, from a complete newbie to C level USPSA.

 

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

It would be really difficult to provide useful instruction for that breadth of knowldege/skill/ability. What does each person hope to get from such a class?

[High Exposure 5,664]

17 minutes ago, Matroskin said:

Could you please recommend a pistol or mixed rifle/pistol class that will be: 

1. suitable for mixed level shooters?

2. Still going to happen this year, August - September preferable?

3. Up to 2 hours drive from North Jersey.

I'm aware of S&T classes but I think we missed the boat this year.

Any suggestions are welcome. A bit of background, we have a group of 4 ppl, from a complete newbie to C level USPSA.

 

Reach out to Joe and S&T. If you can get 8 shooters together, he may be open to do a class.

As @Mr.Stu alluded - instruction, to be valuable to all, needs to cater to the lowest level of ability, so depending on their mindset, your C class shooter may be bored.

I was at Joes Level 1 Carbine class a few weeks ago. I try to take his level 1 class every year as the basics, executed faster and more accurately that your opponent are where the day is won, either in a competition or a gunfight. Their is no such thing as advanced gunfighting.

I find an annual refresher of the basics under the watchful eye of a qualified and competent instructor, which Joe most definitely is, keeps me sharp. I learn something new about my abilities every year I attend.

[Matroskin 29]

OK, I'm the level C and I'm willing to help my friends  

I think the goals should be:

1. safely operate a handgun,

2. Learn / train marksmanship skills, with inclination towards self defense, now that I'm thinking about it, the IDPA scenarios might be applicable 

3. Gain genaral confidence 

[Matroskin 29]

2 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Reach out to Joe and S&T. If you can get 8 shooters together, he may be open to do a class.

As @Mr.Stu alluded - instruction, to be valuable to all, needs to cater to the lowest level of ability, so depending on their mindset, your C class shooter may be bored.

I was at Joes Level 1 Carbine class a few weeks ago. I try to take his level 1 class every year as the basics, executed faster and more accurately that your opponent are where the day is won, either in a competition or a gunfight. Their is no such thing as advanced gunfighting.

I find an annual refresher of the basics under the watchful eye of a qualified and competent instructor, which Joe most definitely is, keeps me sharp. I learn something new about my abilities every year I attend.

Thank you for the insight HE. So the 8 ppl is the minimum for private class?

18 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

It would be really difficult to provide useful instruction for that breadth of knowldege/skill/ability. What does each person hope to get from such a class?

OK, I'm the level C and I'm willing to help my friends

I think the goals should be:

1. safely operate a handgun,

2. Learn / train marksmanship skills, with inclination towards self defense, now that I'm thinking about it, the IDPA scenarios might be applicable 

3. Gain genaral confidence

[High Exposure 5,664]

That was Joe’s minimum last time I spoke to him about a private class.

I am the same way. I took my Brothers in law to Joe’s basic carbine and basic pistol classes. I gave them all the equipment and ammo and attended the class for moral support. 

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:42 PM, Matroskin said:

Thank you for the insight HE. So the 8 ppl is the minimum for private class?

OK, I'm the level C and I'm willing to help my friends

I think the goals should be:

1. safely operate a handgun,

2. Learn / train marksmanship skills, with inclination towards self defense, now that I'm thinking about it, the IDPA scenarios might be applicable 

3. Gain genaral confidence

Learning to use a handgun well enough to defend yourself with any confidence is a progression. If you just get a gun and the next day face a bad guy, you're relying pretty much purely on luck. Does it work sometimes? Sure, but it is nothing more than luck.

There are quite a few things to try to think about handling a firearm for the first time. I long ago stopped trying to count the number of new shooters I had to stop from putting their finger inside the trigger guard as they picked up the gun. Muzzle awareness is not a natural born instinct either. Then add in learning how to carry out the fundamentals and most people are task saturated the first few times out.

If you mix in IDPA scenarios and/or self defense techniques at that stage you are doing the new shooter a disservice. They will quickly be overwhelmed and their performance will suck. For first time shooters (or any new complex thing) break it down to digestible chunks. When you first learned to drive, were you in an empty parking lot, or on the highway with a dozen cars and trucks flying by?

The novice shooter needs to learn how carry out the fundamentals with as few distractions as possible until they get the concepts and can execute them. Adding in multiple targets, movement, holsters, reloads, etc. is way too much and makes the environment ripe for an accident.

Also, a novice cannot sustain the concentration necessary for more than 60-90 minutes. A day on the range is way too much in one go. I strongly suggest parking this idea until you have been able to help them learn the fundamentals and they have become familiar enough to run the gun in their subconscious - like by now you just think "slow down" and your foot works the brake pedal all by itself.