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I called TargetSportsUSA the other day to ask. The person assured me that they will ship to NJ with valid FPID, but I'm not sure if that person was fully updated on this specifically. I sent an email to get something in writing but have not heard back.

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2 hours ago, ShootersShooter said:

Has anyone any news on buying ammunition since the new package of laws were signed by Murphy? I use a lot from online purchases that used to require just the FID sent with an order. Are local dealers changing the routine yet?


Doing a quick internet search I was only able to find the below.  Since this is, or may be (not sure if it passed) , a NJ State law I don't see how they could require out of State ammo sellers to submit that information.  If the online sellers you use don't ask about it then I wouldn't worry about it.  

Handgun Ammo Regulation

This requires ammunition dealers to keep a record of who buys ammo and then provide that record to the state police.

Congratulations, New Jersey. Black market types all over the state are looking forward to this new and exciting business opportunity as people go across state lines to buy up ammo, drive back, then sell the ammo to those who don’t want to show up on those records.

Nicely done.

https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/30/new-nj-gun-control-bills-head-to-murphy-for-signing-n59918

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1 minute ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

I called TargetSportsUSA the other day to ask. The person assured me that they will ship to NJ with valid FPID, but I'm not sure if that person was fully updated on this specifically. I sent an email to get something in writing but have not heard back.

If they aren't requiring it, why are you asking more questions?  Submit your FPID and place your order. 

If that's what they require then just give THAT to them without stirring up a hornets nest that doesn't need to be stirred up.
 

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Folks, if the specific law in question is for dealers, why is anyone worrying about this ? As Glen said, order, get it and enjoy.

As a side note, in the age of credit cards, internet and shipping, they got all the "records" and "tracking" they need.

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36 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

Handgun Ammo Regulation

This requires ammunition dealers to keep a record of who buys ammo and then provide that record to the state police.

AFAIK, buyers have had to present their FPID when purchasing handgun ammo for quite some time.  I rarely buy HG ammo, but that has been my experience.  The retailer logs the purchase.  If I am correctly reading the new bill, which Phildo has not signed yet, all this changes is that retailers have to submit HG ammo purchase logs to the state, instead of just keeping a record.

The way I read it, everything is the same, except retailers now have to actively report HG ammo sales logs to the state.

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The bill states that following under the amendments section: " This act shall take effect 1[immediately] on the first day of the seventh month next following the date of enactment, except the Attorney General may take such anticipatory administrative action in advance as shall be necessary for the implementation of this act1." Is this replacing "immediately" with the underlined text or is it the other way around?

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1 hour ago, Philasipha said:

The bill states that following under the amendments section: " This act shall take effect 1[immediately] on the first day of the seventh month next following the date of enactment, except the Attorney General may take such anticipatory administrative action in advance as shall be necessary for the implementation of this act1." Is this replacing "immediately" with the underlined text or is it the other way around?

My understanding is the text in brackets is being removed and the underlined text is  being added.  So 7 months or when the state has their databases/systems in place, whichever comes first.

I am concerned that online dealers may decide the reporting requirements (as opposed to just requiring copies of FIDs) are too burdensome and not sell to us at all.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

AFAIK, buyers have had to present their FPID when purchasing handgun ammo for quite some time.  I rarely buy HG ammo, but that has been my experience.  The retailer logs the purchase.  If I am correctly reading the new bill, which Phildo has not signed yet, all this changes is that retailers have to submit HG ammo purchase logs to the state, instead of just keeping a record.

The way I read it, everything is the same, except retailers now have to actively report HG ammo sales logs to the state.

My question would be is what defines "actively report HG ammo sales to the state".  Does that mean report ALL sales AT the point of purchase or does it mean "actively report HG ammo sales to the state" when requested.  BIG difference.

Regardless. it really doesn't leave the state knowing how much the purchaser actually has on hand at any one point in time.  Maybe the purchaser shoots A LOT and the 5k rounds they purchased last month really doesn't mean much.  

And what business is it of the "State" (NJ or otherwise) to know how much HG ammo you've purchased.  What's next?  Tracking how many 6 or 12 or cases of beers you purchased?  Or bottles of wine?  Or whiskey / bourbon?  Really, what interest does it serve?  Because they aren't tracking how much is being used / consumed.   It's really useless.

And even if a person purchases "x" (call it 10k rounds of HG ammo) then really, what business it of the State knowing this?

It's just more "feel good" legislation to make it appear they are "doing something".  But in reality it means little to nothing.  And it won't "solve" anything.

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It would not surprise me if internet dealers did not want to be burdened by these new regulations, and refused to ship to NJ.

And BTW, what is the purpose of tracking large orders of ammo?  The only people buying thousands of rounds are target shooters like us.  Anyone bent on mayhem would only need (and be able to carry) a few hundred rounds, at most. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Bklynracer said:

Nothing they do solves anything. 

Exactly. Solving problems is not their concern. 

Placing firearm owners in an ever increasing legal and administrative straightjacket is.

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8 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

My question would be is what defines "actively report HG ammo sales to the state". 

Up till now, retailers only had to log the sales, and the log was subject to inspection at the pleasure of the state.  Exactly what the new protocol means, no clue how and when the purchase data is submitted.  Maybe @dajonga can fill us in on the deets.

Basically the state has set it up so they don't have to go to the retailer to get sales data (electronically collect intelligence on US citizens).  They can now look it up in their ammo registry in Trenton.

 

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2 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

Up till now, retailers only had to log the sales, and the log was subject to inspection at the pleasure of the state.  Exactly what the new protocol means, no clue how and when the purchase data is submitted.  Maybe @dajonga can fill us in on the deets.

Basically the state has set it up so they don't have to go to the retailer to get sales data (electronically collect intelligence on US citizens).  They can now look it up in their ammo registry in Trenton.

 

We have heard nothing from the state concerning the ammo reporting. I will certainly keep yousguys in the loop when we learn what this will entail.

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I just spoke to a 2A lawyer a few mins ago asking explicitly about internet ammo buys vs A1302...The best I understood him is if the Ammo Dealer cards you FID/Drivers license AND keeps a retrievable database of your ammo buys you can still buy from them.

I didn't "get" from him that they have to proactively send it to Murphy, but only needed to provide it on request. PLEASE Note, I know this is different than what some posted above who said the dealer would need to send it without being asked, so don't take what I am saying as gospel. We need to get more opinions on this one hopefully from 2A lawyers.

From what I've seen most internet dealers do require fids/license and keep a history of our orders (which you can usually pull up in your account). I (obviously) DOUBT any of them send it to NJ proactively at this time - so lets hope that is not needed, some might say screw you folks in NJ buy your ammo elsewhere.

The Lawyer also told me - and this is shocking to a degree - that last time they passed a bill about ammo in NJ, Murphy actually had agents placing ammo orders from NJ to test many internet dealers. If they were not compliant with the new law (at that time) they would be threatened with a CRIMINAL charge requiring them to come to NJ for trial (OR) they can pay an aprox. $86,000 fine AND rat-out the gun owners in NJ who placed real orders and accepted ammo who would then be placed on some Shit List in nics or something...If the ammo dealer did all this it becomes a civil charge...In essence we would be held responsible for the dealers non-compliance. WTF!!!

This is mind boggling stuff!

Go out and talk to a 2A lawyer to get more opinions (especially the proactive sending of orders to Murphy) and report back - Please.

C.A.

 

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Here is what I found on the NJ legislation site from A1302...I see no mention of having to (proactively) send ammo info sales to Murphy, --- only on request:

(key items from below: 1) The records shall be available for inspection at all reasonable times by any law enforcement officer....2) "Every dealer should shall establish a system"  ---To me this implies each have a system, doesn't sound like a central database in the heart of Murphy's NJ....3) "within 12 months of the effective date..."

C.A. (IANAL)

   e.     Records of sales.  Every manufacturer and wholesale dealer shall keep a detailed record of each firearm and all handgun ammunition sold by [him] the manufacturer and dealer.  The firearm record shall include the date of sale, the name and address of the purchaser, a description of each firearm and the firearm’s serial number [thereof] The handgun ammunition record shall be in electronic form and shall contain the date of the transaction; the type, caliber, or gauge of the ammunition; the quantity of ammunition sold; the name and address of the purchaser; and any other information the superintendent shall deem necessary for the proper enforcement of this chapter.  The records shall be available for inspection at all reasonable times by any law enforcement officer.

     Every manufacturer and wholesale dealer shall establish a system for maintaining electronic records pursuant to this subsection within 12 months of the effective date of P.L.    , c.   (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill).

(cf: N.J.S.2C:58-1)

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It is all sick, these people make crazy laws and they can't even document the laws without a lot of contradictions with what they say a few paragraphs ago...Maybe on purpose...And according to the 2A lawyer 2 posts above, if the dealer is not compliant and we use them, somehow we get penalized...When did it become our job to ensure dealers compliance lol...I think the lawyer needs a set of XXXX and take these Crazies to court.

Anyway, no matter what way this BS can be interpreted, it looks like we have at least 12 months to keep buying (as long as they take our fid and D.L. - that is an older law. And keep a record on my purchases in my login (which I am not sure if that was included in the old law or not)...This centralized "electronic recording" right now seems to be a gleam in Lefty eyes with requirements, design, and functionality to be determined - and compliance required in 12 months from now.

My opinion only, IANOL, I will buy from dealers who take fid/DL and keep a record of my ammo sales which I can see from my account login...The rest of this BS is btwn the Dealers and the SONJ.

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5 hours ago, MartyZ said:

manufacturer and wholesale dealer? any of you buy from manufacturers or wholesale dealers? I for one only buy from retail dealers. What am I missing here?

Maybe if you buy directly from Federal?

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On 7/2/2022 at 5:15 PM, Lawnmower2021 said:

I called TargetSportsUSA the other day to ask. The person assured me that they will ship to NJ with valid FPID, but I'm not sure if that person was fully updated on this specifically. I sent an email to get something in writing but have not heard back.

There always that one guy that fucks it up for everyone. Good job.

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15 minutes ago, diamondd817 said:

There always that one guy that fucks it up for everyone. Good job.

Nothing changes because of me. For what it's worth, they're shipping everything all the same so I think everyone can stop worrying.

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18 hours ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

Nothing changes because of me. For what it's worth, they're shipping everything all the same so I think everyone can stop worrying.

The law doesn't take effect for 7 months. But you're already emailing TS basically telling them they shouldn't be selling us ammo.

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16 minutes ago, diamondd817 said:

The law doesn't take effect for 7 months. But your already emailing TS basically telling them they shouldn't be selling us ammo.

Precisely, I think we should be more discerning with our attempts to establish greater clarity. The first priority right now is to stack ammo before the law goes into effect. So instead of asking if they will still ship, place an order and find out. Once that window closes its a whole new ball game. While I don't think the new law should bar online retailers from shipping to us since we create a detailed electronic record of the transaction when we order online anyway, I do know that this law will have a chilling effect on online orders.

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