Jump to content
revenger

qualification thread

Recommended Posts

Practice doesn't all have to be at the range.  Revolvers are particularly well-suited for dry fire practice.  You can load up some snap caps or spent cases and dry fire a LOT.  Watch your front sight and if it is moving when the hammer drops, practice until that movement is almost eliminated.  If you are jerking the trigger, it will be very obvious.

With snap caps you can also practice your reloads until they are fluid.  Lots of repetitions.

Fiddle with the holster until it doesn't interfere with drawing or reholstering.  Or replace it with a different one.  Then practice your draw, a lot.  Hundreds of repetitions isn't a lot.  Start slow, focus on the mechanics of not sweeping your support hand and not getting your finger on the trigger prematurely when you come up on target, then start to focus on having the sights fairly well aligned by the time you come up on target, then focus on minimal movement of the sights as you squeeze the trigger.

There are free downloadable shot timers for smart phones.  Download one, set it to give a start beep after a random delay, and a stop beep after the par time that you set.  After you get the basics down as described above, start doing them on the clock.

Best of luck (though with more prep, you won't be depending on luck).

  • Like 3
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't practice at all?  There's also a modified HQC2 that allows for 5 shot revolvers.

Holster choice - you didn't practice holstering/drawing with the holster either?  Holster flop is a serious issue.  You should not be called on to holster on the clock, however if you have to muzzle yourself during holstering, I'd seriously consider getting another holster.  There are several other reasons why I do not choose to go full leather on holsters.  They get floppy, then they get sloppy.  A worn leather holster has caused a ND injury before - there's plenty of proof of this (I won't link it here).

Like I and others have said here - please practice before going out and shooting a qual.  Knock off the rust.  Practice holster draw.  Practice dry fire (make sure you keep that muzzle steady), sight practice, etc.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, samiam said:

If I need to decide between going to an entirely different gun, and giving up on my NJ CHP, right this moment I think I'd lean toward the latter option. I'll be 73 in about a month. While I do enjoy shooting, it's not an overwhelming passion for me.

In my opinion you'd be better served by contacting Shooters (Egg Harbor) or Gun For Hire (Woodland Park).  NEITHER range has you do the qual from a holster.  It's all from a bench or low ready, so that immediately eliminates that factor for you.

The course of fire for both is easier than anything i've read about the HCQ courses that other have taken, and I'm sure either place would come up with something reasonable for a 5 round revolver.

As others have mentioned, you absolutely should practice before doing the qual.  I appreciate that you're probably a confident shooter, but IMO there's no excuse for you going into the qual after not putting any rounds downrange for over 3 years.  You could dry fire with your revolver for a few hours a day if you wanted.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, samiam said:

So, I didn 't pass qualification, because of several issues. First, I had a lot of trouble shaking off a massive amount of rust, since I had no range time in probably the past 3 years, or possibly more. Second, my new leather IWB holster turned out to be a significant liablity. It is reasonably comfortable, and retention seems to be very good - possibly too good, as cleanly reholstering on command was nearly impossible from a hip carry position. I had to use my weak hand to reach over and pry the holster lip clear of the top of the cylinder while jamming the gun down forcefully with my strong hand, with the result that I muzzled my leg more than once. Third, the course of fire used appeared to be HQC 2, with a couple of the items run in an alternative sequence, some extra holster draw and shooting steps added, and zero accomodation made for using a 5-shot revolver. To the instructor's credit, he asked me to call him Monday morning to work out some practice time and schedule requalification. I plan to do so. To be clear, while I question the course of fire mandated for my gun, I did not handle my revolver or shoot well enough to deserve to pass any test today, so I have no issue with that determination. However, even if I sort out how to make this holster work correctly, or replace it with one that does, and manage to shake off the rust with some intensive practice, I'm still not convinced I can pass the course of fire used with my 5-shot revolver without modifications to it that I'm pretty sure this instructor is not willing to make. When I call him on Monday, I plan to ask him for his candid opinion about that. If it appears that I don't have a reasonably good chance to pass his CoF with my gun, I'm not sure where I will go from there. If I need to decide between going to an entirely different gun, and giving up on my NJ CHP, right this moment I think I'd lean toward the latter option. I'll be 73 in about a month. While I do enjoy shooting, it's not an overwhelming passion for me. I am in pretty good shape for my age, but I clearly do not have the strength or stamina that I did even a few years ago. I have other demands on my time. I'm really not convinced that I want to go through the process of finding the right semi-auto, learning to use it, and practice religiously with it at this stage of my lilfe. If anyone is still interested, I'll report back here after my discussion on Monday with the instructor.

Get a new holster, kydex IWB or OWB...try crossbreed holsters, it will make reholsetting a cinch..... and practice, your age should not be your liability, physical incapacities aside if they exist.

We look forward to your report, and passing the qual.

 

the-japanese-saying-nanakorobi-yaoki-fal

 

And as others have said...practice....shooting effectively is a perishable skill...

 

I shoot probably twice a month, maybe more...and while I am getting my.paperwork together I am practicing...and practicing some more...  not just for the qual, but for life.

You CAN do this, but if you have in your mind you cannot, then you will not.

Burn it into your mind that you can and will.do this, and practice....  

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, DAHL said:

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

I say there is a thing called the American with Disabilities  Act.  ADA.

 

Now there might not be a specific section, and I will check my books, to see if CCW is covered, if there is NOT....maybe this is something that we should all act upon for the 2A and the right of self defense is for everyone as best they can.

 

And do you actually call him a cripple?  If you do you, well....jeez

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, samiam said:

I hear you, and mostly agree. Thing is, I'm not very confident right now that even with practice and a good holster, I could pass certain parts (particularly the 15 yard segment) of the current HQC 2 (as run by this instructor) with a 5-shot revolver, even using my speedloaders. That is what I need to discuss with him tomorrow. If the probability of that is low, then I need to decide whether or not to try to do this with a new gun, after going through the P2P process (which I heard is at a stand-still right now) and training with that. I'm torn. I can afford to replace the gun. It's the wait that would be galling, first for the permit, then the gun, then practice, then the rest of the qualification exercise. I'd probably be looking at September to October. I guess the positive side is by the time I got through all that (should I choose to go that direction) the resolution of certain other issues in NJ will probably be clearer... I suppose a third option would be to find some range that does an easier qual, but then there is a risk it won't be accepted (and I would sort of feel like I cheated, even if that is not reasonable). This instructor seems to have connections in high places, or talks as if that is the case, and it seems that passing his qual might have advantages. Thank you for your kind support!

I dont know this guy or this place

I have found after 55 years, people that boast connections are usually impotent....

So many others have given good advice...

 

A lot is in your head....  I was with a nypd guy (retired) who claimed a s&w 36 'chiefs' pistol was terrible gun and he couldn't hit anything with it....

I can hit 4" steel with it at CR....

Get some good working gear...practice...get your mind straight...  be positive... practice... and if the connections guy has some snake oil..don't buy it.

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
  • Informative 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DAHL said:

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

First, there should be no qualification shoot to exercise a constitutionally protected right.  Now that I have that off my chest...Your brother in law should have a course of fire modified so that he can shoot it from his wheelchair. 

I don't know anything about his disabilities or if he's capable of handling a firearm safely.  Assuming that he is, he is the poster child for why right to carry matters so much. It levels the playing field for someone who isn't able to physically defend themselves. 

If he wants to carry and can't find a place to qualify, contact me and I think I can help.  I'm not interested in getting into the qualification game but I am an NRA instructor and I would be willing to meet you and your BIL to figure out a CoF that works for him and sign off on the paperwork - assuming he can demonstrate safe handling and can shoot some type of course so he has scores to submit.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DAHL said:

What do all you macho guys say about that?

Respectfully, you sound like a jackass.

Most (if not all) of the people who have posted in this thread have stated at one point or another that requiring a 'qualifier' for a Constitutional right is absurd.  It's like requiring some kind of test to vote in the next election.

With that said, the law of the land requires a qual.  If you're going to take one it makes sense to prepare for it.  That means understanding what the course of fire is at different locations, selecting the one that's right for you, and preparing for it.

I would have your brother in law contact Gun For Hire.  They seem to be the tip of the spear on most things concerning the current CCW process so I would expect they would do as much as they could within the current laws to accommodate someone with a disability.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, samiam said:

I suppose a third option would be to find some range that does an easier qual, but then there is a risk it won't be accepted (and I would sort of feel like I cheated, even if that is not reasonable).

Respectfully, it sounds like your ego is getting in the way a bit.

You want to be able to say you passed a tough qualifier, but you haven't been shooting often enough to be able to.

People who live in Florida or any of the Constitutional Carry states would be laughing at you.  There's no "qualifier" for them to pass.  They have the right to keep and bear arms and they didn't have to get 40 out 50 shots to exercise that right.

There's nothing that says you HAVE to get a carry permit, but it you WANT to it makes sense to contact Gun For Hire (Woodland Park) or Shooters (Egg Harbor) who both have qualifiers that any shooter can pass.  I'd call to discuss the nuance of qualifying on a 5 shot revolver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DAHL said:

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

Who said he had to stand to qualify? I'm pretty sure if he showed up at GFH they would tell him to load up mags, and shoot the distances from his wheelchair..

 In fact, did you or he contact anyone about accommodations? Or u just pissing in the wind?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, samiam said:

I hear you, and mostly agree. Thing is, I'm not very confident right now that even with practice and a good holster, I could pass certain parts (particularly the 15 yard segment) of the current HQC 2 (as run by this instructor) with a 5-shot revolver, even using my speedloaders. That is what I need to discuss with him tomorrow. If the probability of that is low, then I need to decide whether or not to try to do this with a new gun, after going through the P2P process (which I heard is at a stand-still right now) and training with that. I'm torn. I can afford to replace the gun. It's the wait that would be galling, first for the permit, then the gun, then practice, then the rest of the qualification exercise. I'd probably be looking at September to October. I guess the positive side is by the time I got through all that (should I choose to go that direction) the resolution of certain other issues in NJ will probably be clearer... I suppose a third option would be to find some range that does an easier qual, but then there is a risk it won't be accepted (and I would sort of feel like I cheated, even if that is not reasonable). This instructor seems to have connections in high places, or talks as if that is the case, and it seems that passing his qual might have advantages. Thank you for your kind support!

I picked up 2 OWB safariland holsters just in case I would need them, they werent too expensive either, midway had them for $25 and $40. They are excellent holsters to begin with, and it took me maybe 2 dozen draws to get the feeling for each one. I will pick up additional IWB holsters in due time when I figure out what I want, what's comfortable, and what works. I dont see a need to use IWB to qualify, just making your life more difficult, and I plan to use the OWB holster when appropriate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, samiam said:

"The 15 yd segment was the toughest for me, as I anticipated: draw, fire 3 rounds standing, and reholster, within 5 seconds; then draw and fire 3 standing, drop to a knee and fire 4 kneeling, within 25 seconds. Little time was allocated for reloading between the two parts. So, I reholster after the first part with 2 rounds left, then I needed to draw, dump my cylinder, reload from speedloader, fire 3, dump my cylinder, reload from my second speedloader, drop to a knee and fire 4 more."

If the instructor didn't give you any time to reload off the clock, he's not being reasonable. I'm assuming he was aware that you were running a 5-shot revolver?

I would suggest not giving him any more money - there are lots of other options out there.

  • Like 5
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, samiam said:

According to what I understand, he is willing to work with me on holster drill and requal, "as long as it takes", without charging me more. Could be wrong about that, I'll find out tomorrow. However, my sense is that he will absolutely not change his CoF to accomodate my 5-shot limititation, which leads me to wonder how much benefit I would really get from the remedial work. 

Did you show him NJ State Sanctioned 5 shot revolver HQC from the NJ DCJ Firearms Instructor Handbook? That’s what I run my guys that shoot JFrame through during quals. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that you want things to work out with this instructor, perhaps because of the time and money already invested. However, at this point it seems he is unwilling to use, or (worse yet) unaware of, the HQC2 for a 5 shot. Depending on your discussion with him you might be better served going elsewhere. Besides, 72 isn't ancient and my son recently got a few p2ps in 9 business days. At least you have the benefit of knowing what to expect, and definitely get a better holster to use when you get your handgun permit.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, DAHL said:

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

What’s wrong with you? Show me on then doll where the bad man hurt you.

Not a single person in this thread said they thought it was correct to require mandatory training and qualifications prior to being awarded a CCW permit. However, this is where we are and this is the process we have in place. 

”My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair” “What do all you macho guys say about that?”

You sound like a jerk. Completely unnecessary and useless comment that will not win you friends or influence people.  

One of the most competent shooters I know is a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair after being shot in Fallujah. He trains constantly and has developed workarounds for all of his TTPs that you and I take for granted. I was in a CQB course with him in Ohio. He was an absolute stud and was always an asset. 

  • Like 4
  • Agree 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So recently went through the qual process. I practiced 4-5 times in a week and a half. Knocked the rust off and just basically went through the fundamentals. 100%  there is plenty of time. I saw lots of people unprepared. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shore Shot in Lakewood does not require drawing from a holster, and I heard one of the trainers discussing with an older gentleman who had a hard time kneeling that they will modify the requirements for him. I’m sure that most instructors at any range will be more than happy to help anyone with any type of disability. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

First, there should be no qualification shoot to exercise a constitutionally protected right.  Now that I have that off my chest...Your brother in law should have a course of fire modified so that he can shoot it from his wheelchair. 

I don't know anything about his disabilities or if he's capable of handling a firearm safely.  Assuming that he is, he is the poster child for why right to carry matters so much. It levels the playing field for someone who isn't able to physically defend themselves. 

If he wants to carry and can't find a place to qualify, contact me and I think I can help.  I'm not interested in getting into the qualification game but I am an NRA instructor and I would be willing to meet you and your BIL to figure out a CoF that works for him and sign off on the paperwork - assuming he can demonstrate safe handling and can shoot some type of course so he has scores to submit.

s-l500.jpg

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DAHL said:

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

Americans With Disabilities Act.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DAHL said:

With all this discussion about "qual" I find this whole process quite discriminatory. My brother in law is a cripple in a wheelchair and wants to shoot and carry. His hands and arms work OK but he can't walk very well. What do all you macho guys say about that?

Well, I guess I am a cripple too! Insulting comment!! I cannot kneel. most times walk with walker. I guess I am in that boat too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have worked and carried in 01 FFL. have my 03 FFL for 25 years. Probably not gonna bother to get cCW. Have out of states. Wait until the rush dies down. CJ FFL will shoot there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know several revolver shooters that can easily reload the guns faster than 99% of the semi-auto shooters out there. Of course, they tend to practice quite a bit.

Most pro action shooters spend at least twice as much time dry firing than they do live fire. While you can't simulate recoil and stress levels with dry fire, it will certainly expose any issues with equipment and handling.

Seems as though you have several good recommendations above. I will kindly add a few.

Get yourself a good kydex or hybrid holster. They are not classic or sexy, but they just plain work.

Make sure to pair the above with a good gun belt. As a foundation, they will work regardless of whether you are wearing jeans, shorts, etc..

If you get your draw, reload and accuracy squared-away, you could drop certain portions of the qual CoF and still easily pass, so don't get too hung-up on that stage.

Can't speak for every town, but my recent P2P in July was approved in less than 10 days. It was by-far the quickest turnaround I've ever gotten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...