qualification thread

[ShootersShooter 120]

They say bring 100 rounds, none of their instructors has a 100 round requirement to qualify.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I finally got around to qualifying today at Gun for Hire.  It looked like they are still running a lot of people through the quals.

Short safety briefing, instructions on course of fire, then right into it.  We did not specifically have to demonstrate safe gun handling, but there were a lot of instructors, so they might have been observing us. 

Course of fire (untimed) was 50 rounds as follows:

24 rounds at 7 yards

14 rounds at 10 yards

6 rounds at 15 yards

6 rounds at 25 yards

It appeared that everyone in my group passed.  Anyone who cannot hit 80% or better on a full silhouette target with no time pressure probably should not be carrying a firearm.  They did say that if anyone failed, they could try again in a week at a reduced fee, presumably after some practice and some remedial training.

[JohnnyB 4,323]

21 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

I finally got around to qualifying today at Gun for Hire.  It looked like they are still running a lot of people through the quals.

Short safety briefing, instructions on course of fire, then right into it.  We did not specifically have to demonstrate safe gun handling, but there were a lot of instructors, so they might have been observing us. 

Course of fire (untimed) was 50 rounds as follows:

24 rounds at 7 yards

14 rounds at 10 yards

6 rounds at 15 yards

6 rounds at 25 yards

It appeared that everyone in my group passed.  Anyone who cannot hit 80% or better on a full silhouette target with no time pressure probably should not be carrying a firearm.  They did say that if anyone failed, they could try again in a week at a reduced fee, presumably after some practice and some remedial training.

How many were in your group?

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Looked like around 8-10 people.

[45Doll 5,874]

I contacted GFH this afternoon to find out if they would qualify four handguns for a permit and what it would cost.

After trading a couple emails with Phoebe I can say what the current options are at GFH. I read a statement on their website which they are correcting. That statement implied only two handguns could be qualified at any one session, and that's no longer true.

So my non-member costs would be:

Qualification Session with one handgun:   $150

Each additional handgun:                              $50

And there is no limit on the number of handguns you can add.

So my qualification with four handguns would be $300. 

If you're a member, I believe each of those items for you would be $25 less.

If I indeed go for a permit I don't want to have to dip back in the well. Ideally I'd like two really compact and two large frame pistols licensed. I have no report on how the Sussex County judge(s) is/are issuing permits, so I'm hedging my bets. If they are not restricting permits, than qualifying four handguns is unnecessary.

[DAHL 58]

Just passed the qual for Somerset County today. It was at a private range- 20 shots at 20 yds, 10 shots at 10 yds and 10 shots at 7yds both right and left handed. Now to get the paperwork together, the forms, photos etc and submit it to the police department. It was just reported that the Somerset NJ prosecutors office wants to see all the permits before they are signed by the judge. That is not normal protocol but adds a slowdown of at least 2 more weeks. I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

2 hours ago, DAHL said:

Just passed the qual for Somerset County today. It was at a private range- 20 shots at 20 yds, 10 shots at 10 yds and 10 shots at 7yds both right and left handed. Now to get the paperwork together, the forms, photos etc and submit it to the police department. It was just reported that the Somerset NJ prosecutors office wants to see all the permits before they are signed by the judge. That is not normal protocol but adds a slowdown of at least 2 more weeks. I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish.

Somerset County?  Which range / qual was this?  

[DAHL 58]

9 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

Somerset County?  Which range / qual was this?  

I live in a rural area at the junction of Somerset, Hunterdon and Mercer Counties where there are many small and medium size family farms. My qual was done on a farm with an NRA complaint range constructed and owned by a friend. It is my friends private range not open to the public.  He chooses to remain anonymous. The instructor held a 3 hour class on safety and the use of legal force before I started. The qual was based somewhat upon the RPO requirement by a certified NRA instructor who is also certified to do the police qual. It was done sitting, standing, two hand, single hand, right hand and left hand. You can find many instructors who work for ranges that are listed on the NJ state police website who could come out to your private range if you have one .  I wouldn't call the qual easy but I shot over 90% with a Glock 26.

[DAHL 58]

If you get through the Qual and put your application in the next step is fingerprinting. The state outsources this to IdentoGo. Trouble is that many IdentoGo locations don't have appointments available until mid October.  If you want a more recent appointment, if you wish to travel;  you can search IdentoGo locations across the state to see what they have available. The fee is $59 but if you do the fingerprinting out of state to get a more recent appointment the cost is $96.  The funny thing is that I am already in the IdentoGo system with TSA precheck but this didn't matter . Both the state and IdentoGo insisted that I do it all again.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:59 AM, maintenanceguy said:

Somebody here posted that Shooters now only allowed one firearm on the qualification form.  Something about the qualification being rejected by the PD if more than one gun was on the form - not sure I have  that exactly right.

Just curious what the details were. Was that discussed at all during your qualification?

 

They might be denying those qual forms because it's not clear which firearm you qualed with and the scores each one recieved. IIRC, they just line item listed your handguns, and you could add any after the fact. In contrast, GFH gives you a seperate qual form for each firearm, one firearm listed per form. 

 

Since you can only carry what you personally own, and there is no accessible firearms data base for police to search, I wouldn't be surprised they want the firearms listed on your permit you can carry. As of right now, the only firearms going on permits are ones that were accompanied by a qualifications. 

[DAHL 58]

Recent information from a reliable source.  In Somerset County, NJ the prosecutor will not review the applications but the plan is to approve only 5 carry permits per month.  AFAIK no one in Somerset County has received a carry permit so far. Bottom line is that with the current strategy it may be a long while before you get your carry permit here.  This is illogical thinking as gun owners already have their pistols. If we were to carry outside of our residences, the county should know that we would be just as law abiding as we always are.

[ALAN553 27]

On 9/4/2022 at 8:07 AM, JackDaWack said:

They might be denying those qual forms because it's not clear which firearm you qualed with and the scores each one recieved. IIRC, they just line item listed your handguns, and you could add any after the fact. In contrast, GFH gives you a seperate qual form for each firearm, one firearm listed per form. 

 

Since you can only carry what you personally own, and there is no accessible firearms data base for police to search, I wouldn't be surprised they want the firearms listed on your permit you can carry. As of right now, the only firearms going on permits are ones that were accompanied by a qualifications. 

But it is not your job to prove you own the gun, it would their's to prove you don't.  At the time of purchase, your pistol is registered with the NJSP, you get a copy and you receive an email notice from NJSP.  Your CCW states that you can carry any firearm that you own,  if they want to put multiple serial numbers on the permit thats fine, but you shouldn't have to pay to show a qualifiaction with each gun, You are proving your knowledge and skill with a handgun, not a G23, G19 or a G 17.  Prove you own it and it should be listed...

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[ALAN553 27]

48 minutes ago, samiam said:

There would still be a potential problem with a newly purchased handgun, since neither the statute for the A. C. provide any official way to modify an existing permit to list an additional gun, or for any other reason. 

Which just goes to the bigger problem, shouldn’t have to list any serial numbers on your permit, completing the requirements to get the permit should be enough.  your cars registration isn’t listed on your drivers license, you can drive any make or model after you passed the drivers test.  and driving isn’t t even a right…it’s a privilege. If you have a CCW and your carrying someone else’s gun…and you use it, you and the owner of the gun have even bigger problems. 

[ESB 244]

I did the qualification test at TTC .  There was 13 people in the class. Only half passed.  There were several courses of fire from 2-15yrds.  50 shots total, with a pass of 40 or more (80%) inside the Q target.  I was pretty surprised the pass rate was so low, but when watching them shoot it was obvious they were going to fail.  You would think people would know to be very proficient before trying to CCW.  Of the half that did not pass, half of them did not pass because they had troubles with the gun, and others who when they had issues or were pressured due to time limit made repeated safety mistakes.  You need to be able to demonstrate proficiency with your firearm and always display safe handling at all times no matter what.  Some where proficient, but under stress of time limit had issues hitting the Q target, even at these close distances.    

I was really glad these people did not pass.  They would have been a big liability to themselves and given a bad rap to the rest of the CCW community.  

I would suggest, that if you haven't shot or practiced regularly recently, or not sure you'll pass, don't waste your money on the CCW Qual.  Spend the money on range time or better yet training, then do the Qual. Under just a little bit of pressure, there were people who had issues with the safety selector, issues locking slide back, reloading mid course of fire, handling the firearm safely, etc.  Halfway through, it was pretty clear to these people that they weren't going to pass.  

One thing I noticed is those that hit all 50 and had very tight groups had Red Dots.  Everyone with iron sights were all over the place.  

 

[ALAN553 27]

I have been practicing with a new G43…small compared to my G17.  GFH, 24 rounds at 7 yds, 14 at 10…so hitting inside the Q target at those ranges is easy, gets you to 38.  Only need 2 more with 6 at 15 and 6 at 25.  Out of those 12 should be easy…I’ve done it repeatedly…hope I don’t choke under anticipated pressure   Lol. 

[Mike77 169]

Qualifications is a joke. Having to qualify with intended gun is a joke. Driving test... Get drivers license, you drive anything. But they feel you can only carry if you can qualify with each gun? They say you need to show you can handle it. If you qualify with a Glock 9mm, im pretty sure you can shoot a XD, SW, 380.. etc. But if you need to shoot someone at 25yrds 10x....??? A 380 at 25yrds?? Thats not easy. 

[Mike77 169]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:36 PM, Krdshrk said:

If you can't find a place to do the notary - try your bank.  I got mine done at my local Bank of America.  They usually do it for you for free if you have an account.

UPS stores do it

[ALAN553 27]

The law is poorly written, it states that you must be the owner of the gun, therefore, by putting the serial number of the gun on your carry permit, it proves you are the owner.  If they want proof of ownership, not skill, you should be give a wallet size registration for your gun at point of sale to carry, just like your auto registration. 

[124gr9mm 859]

2 hours ago, ALAN553 said:

...you should be give a wallet size registration for your gun at point of sale to carry, just like your auto registration. 

Hard 'no' for me.

Creating a registry like that is the first step towards confiscation...

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[ALAN553 27]

AND, the qualifications are different from range to range....always 80% but different distances and number of rounds

1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

Hard 'no' for me.

Creating a registry like that is the first step towards confiscation...

agreed, but that ship already sailed..they are putting the number on you carry card

[Mike77 169]

10 minutes ago, ALAN553 said:

AND, the qualifications are different from range to range....always 80% but different distances and number of rounds

agreed, but that ship already sailed..they are putting the number on you carry card

Your DL has a number too....just saying.

[124gr9mm 859]

29 minutes ago, ALAN553 said:

AND, the qualifications are different from range to range....always 80% but different distances and number of rounds

agreed, but that ship already sailed..they are putting the number on you carry card

IMO putting a number on a carry permit is different than creating a registry (and providing a registry card) at point of sale.

Removing the requirement to specifically list the guns on the carry permit can be challenged and overturned in court.

Once you start with a registry at point of sale it will never go away.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, Mike77 said:

Your DL has a number too....just saying.

Not sure what you're saying? 

You're arguing the government should register every gun you own because your DL has a number on it? 

Your DL doesn't say which cars you can drive, as long as they are "passanger vehicles". In fact you can drive any vehicle legally owned by you or anyone without being charged as "unlicensed". 

 

[Mike77 169]

I was comparing permit # to DL #

 

But to be frank... The serial # on the gun IS registered to you. They can easily track a gun to you already. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Just now, Mike77 said:

I was comparing permit # to DL #

 

But to be frank... The serial # on the gun IS registered to you. They can easily track a gun to you already. 

No one is discussing the permit number on the card. 

This is nothing more than the state seeking to take control over our rights, considering there is no logical reason from someone carrying ANY firearm as long as they are in possession of a permit to carry. 

Your serial numbers can be traced to you, but not how you think. There is no "easy" way to track them since NJ does not utilized a centralized registry. Not sure how that applies to the new law passed for people moving in out of state. But for now, even if a cop wanted to know if you owned a firearm they would have to go through a number of hoops before landing on a form with your name and a serial number. 

They cannot simply look up a serial number and find your name next to it. 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[DAHL 58]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:34 PM, ESB said:

I did the qualification test at TTC .  There was 13 people in the class. Only half passed.  There were several courses of fire from 2-15yrds.  50 shots total, with a pass of 40 or more (80%) inside the Q target.  I was pretty surprised the pass rate was so low.  You would think people would know to be very proficient before trying to CCW.  Of the half that did not pass, half of them did not pass because they had troubles with the gun, and others who when they had issues or were pressured due to time limit made repeated safety mistakes.  You need to be able to demonstrate proficiency with your firearm and always display safe handling at all times no matter what.  Some where proficient, but under stress of time limit had issues hitting the Q target, even at these close distances.    

I was really glad these people did not pass.  They would have been a big liability to themselves and given a bad rap to the rest of the CCW community.  

 

 

It has become obvious to me that Tactical Training is NOT the place to try to qual. The qual that they use is just about the FBI/Police qual.  There is NO reason to put people that wish to carry through such a stringent test. All the law says is that you must demonstrate proficiency with the pistols that you will carry. Thats it.  Requiring civilians to pass a test designed for law enforcement that have  police academy training is asinine. In view of this I urge all of you that wish to qual  to avoid the Tactical Training Center in Flemington, NJ.  The fact that TTC is reporting a high failure rate only proves that they want you to fail and spend more money doing the qual all over again. I totally disagree with the last sentence from ESB. You can be very proficient shooting 50 shots from the ready position (fast and slow) at a Q target at 15, 10, and 7 yards (R-L). Lets also not forget that we are qualifying with compact carry pistols with short barrels around 3".