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I'm scheduled for qualification at Shooters with my SP101 next Tuesday at 9 AM. I was assured of what has been reported here: no holster drill; no kneeling; no time limits; max distance 10 yards. I will go to SJCC in Winslow (where I am a member) tomorrow for some shootng practice at 10 yards and closer. I'm fairly optimistic about qualfying under those conditions. Obviously this won't be a substitute for holster drill, which I need badly (need to find a better holster first) but now I can do that while my application is making its leisurely way through the system. 

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1 minute ago, 10X said:

I called Reloaderz, in north Jersey, to ask about an option to qualify with more than one gun, since they don't list that option on their website.  I was told that if the guns are substantially similar (both revolvers, both striker fired, both hammer fired) you can qualify with one and they'll list both the permit.  They want you to bring in both guns with proof of ownership, though.

I've not actually gone there to qualify, I don't know if you can push beyond the two gun limit, or how flexible they are on 'substantially similar'.   For example could one qualify with a big honking G34 and then have a little G43 listed on the permit as well?  They shoot the full HQC-1 course, and while any of the little defensive guns should be accurate enough to keep all shots on the Q target, it does get easier to do so at 25 yards if you have the extra sight radius.

Stop by and you wont be disappointed. Only complaint I saw about them here is regarding some PD wanting the qual letter in the same format / verbiage as GFH and ReloaderZ refused.

 

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23 minutes ago, samiam said:

I'm scheduled for qualification at Shooters with my SP101 next Tuesday at 9 AM. I was assured of what has been reported here: no holster drill; no kneeling; no time limits; max distance 10 yards. I will go to SJCC in Winslow (where I am a member) tomorrow for some shootng practice at 10 yards and closer. I'm fairly optimistic about qualfying under those conditions. Obviously this won't be a substitute for holster drill, which I need badly (need to find a better holster first) but now I can do that while my application is making its leisurely way through the system. 

Did you ask about accommodations for revolvers?

They also must have changed things or there was a misunderstanding on the phone with me. When I called to schedule mine, she asked what date I wanted. I said the next available Saturday. She said they are only running them on Saturday. 

 

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I qualified at Reloaderz. This is the exact policy they emailed to us before the course was taken:

  1. Qualifying Guns: 

 

The qualification form is currently limited to 4 serial guns.

 

You may qualify with two-gun types (this limit is to prevent the qualification from taking too long)

    1. hammer-fire
    2. striker fire
    3. revolver

 

You only have to shoot one course of fire with one gun of a respective category in order to be qualified for several guns of the same category. So it is possible to qualify you for 4 guns after shooting just one course of fire (if they are all the same firearm type).

 

Example: if you have a Glock 17, a Glock 19, and a Sig Sauer P320, if you pass with one of them, we will qualify you for all three, despite only shooting one of them. This is because all three of the aforementioned handguns belong to the same category: striker-fired handguns.

Example: If you have a revolver and a hammer-fired gun, you will have to conduct two separate courses of fire, as they belong to different categories.

 

Disclaimer: Again, the instructor conducting the qualification has full discretion, as the liability is assumed by them. If the instructor deems two handguns of the same category are not substantially similar, either due to caliber, size, or some other factor, then he or she has the authority to require you to shoot an additional course of fire if the time permits it.

 

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15 minutes ago, kc17 said:

Did you ask about accommodations for revolvers?

They also must have changed things or there was a misunderstanding on the phone with me. When I called to schedule mine, she asked what date I wanted. I said the next available Saturday. She said they are only running them on Saturday. 

 

I raised the issue. He didn't say there was a specific accomodation, but given the other things he told me, I don't see why I would need any. My biggest issues with HQC2 as run at FMJ was the effective time limits on reloading, and the holster drill. I spoke to a man, possibly the instructor running the quals. He told me that after the inital rush, the schedule had opened up considerably. He actually had a slot available this morning, but I'm not quite ready. We only specifically discussed today (Wednesday) and next Monday andTuesday, but I didn't get the impression from him that there was much if any restriction on which days could be used to qualify. 

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1 hour ago, samiam said:

I'm scheduled for qualification at Shooters with my SP101 next Tuesday at 9 AM. I was assured of what has been reported here: no holster drill; no kneeling; no time limits; max distance 10 yards. I will go to SJCC in Winslow (where I am a member) tomorrow for some shootng practice at 10 yards and closer. I'm fairly optimistic about qualfying under those conditions. Obviously this won't be a substitute for holster drill, which I need badly (need to find a better holster first) but now I can do that while my application is making its leisurely way through the system. 

You also need to practice shooting with your support hand...just because....as well and firearm manipulations...try to be ambidextrous for real life...just my opinion..  GL !

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2 hours ago, samiam said:

I'm scheduled for qualification at Shooters with my SP101 next Tuesday at 9 AM. I was assured of what has been reported here: no holster drill; no kneeling; no time limits; max distance 10 yards. I will go to SJCC in Winslow (where I am a member) tomorrow for some shootng practice at 10 yards and closer. I'm fairly optimistic about qualfying under those conditions. Obviously this won't be a substitute for holster drill, which I need badly (need to find a better holster first) but now I can do that while my application is making its leisurely way through the system. 

My home range & I'm usually there Tues. Morning at 9 for the range, sitting on the bench waiting for them to open They may even open a few minutes early for those in the class. No pressure, be calm, do well & best of luck.

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2 hours ago, Kadayo said:

I qualified at Reloaderz. This is the exact policy they emailed to us before the course was taken:

  1. Qualifying Guns: 

 ...

Does Reloaderz require factory ammo for qualification (some ranges do), or are reloads allowed (some ranges don't seem to care)?

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6 minutes ago, 10X said:

Does Reloaderz require factory ammo for qualification (some ranges do), or are reloads allowed (some ranges don't seem to care)?

Only thing that was mentioned about ammo was no steel core or steel cased ammo.

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18 minutes ago, Alex V said:

Passed with my 2 guns this morning at Gun For Hire.  Was pretty easy. 

They have a nice facility, it was my first time there. 

Now I have to figure out the next time I am in NJ so I can do my fingerprints. 

Identogo have offices in other States too. You don't necessarily have to come back to NJ.

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5 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Identogo have offices in other States too. You don't necessarily have to come back to NJ.

Agreed, but they don't offer the NJ permit required service code (2F164B) in my state.  They only offer TSA PreCheck and some HAZMAT stuff. 

I will be in PA in September for a Costa class, since it's a night class I will find a place around there to do my prints in the morning, then on the way home drive through NJ to drop off the paperwork at the NJSP station by the Delaware Memorial Bridge.  The station told me I have to have my prints done before dropping off the paperwork otherwise I would have dropped it off today.  

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2 hours ago, ShootersShooter said:

My home range & I'm usually there Tues. Morning at 9 for the range, sitting on the bench waiting for them to open They may even open a few minutes early for those in the class. No pressure, be calm, do well & best of luck.

The person I spoke with did mention opening ~15 minutes early for qualifiers. Probably to allow time to pay for the qual, too. I'll be there, thanks for your support!

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3 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

You also need to practice shooting with your support hand...just because....as well and firearm manipulations...try to be ambidextrous for real life...just my opinion..  GL !

Agreed. I need to practice many skills. But after my experience at FMJ, I have two distinct categories in my head: requirements to get a qualification certificate; and requirements for safe and effective firearms carry. 

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6 hours ago, samiam said:

I'm scheduled for qualification at Shooters with my SP101 next Tuesday at 9 AM. I was assured of what has been reported here: no holster drill; no kneeling; no time limits; max distance 10 yards. I will go to SJCC in Winslow (where I am a member) tomorrow for some shootng practice at 10 yards and closer. I'm fairly optimistic about qualfying under those conditions. Obviously this won't be a substitute for holster drill, which I need badly (need to find a better holster first) but now I can do that while my application is making its leisurely way through the system. 

Just so you know, that wasn't my experience at Shooters in Little Egg Harbor earlier this week.  The instructor was very nice, easy to like, and generally agreeable.  The course of fire was not difficult but the instructor felt that there was a need to put everyone under pressure.  Not sure why.

There was some yelling, time limits, two shot and three shot drills. Commands to "holster" frequently which were handled by laying your gun on the counter - no actual holsters.   There was no time set aside to reload, you had to reload as you were being kind-of yelled at to shoot "three more rounds" or whatever the drill of the moment was.  I had a compact .380 since I thought you needed to qualify with what you carried and only had two 6 round mags.  I struggled to keep up and missed taking a few shots.   To be fair, the yelling wasn't drill-sargent-in-your-face style yelling but I don't know why it was needed at all.  It was also difficult to hear commands over the shooting with electric ear protection because every shot shuts down your ear muffs for half a second and we were shooting fast so you could probably only hear 1/3 of the time.

Shots were taken at lots of different distances and I don't think we actually shot out to 15 yards, probably closer to 10 or 11yds max.  I think we shot 30 rounds according to the ammo left in my box but I didn't count so I'm guessing.  Everyone passed.  I saw everyone else's target and never counted hits but I think the instructor may have been generous in scoring.

That said, after the shooting, which I didn't particularly enjoy, the instructor was once again very helpful, friendly, and accommodating.  We could put up to 4 handguns on the forms and as I said, everyone passed.

If you're going to shooters I recommend: (1) arrive 15 minutes early to pay - the class starts on time! (2) Bring the serial numbers of the guns you want to include on the form. You can't uncase your guns in the classroom and you won't have time in the range to write the numbers down, (3) Bring enough magazines to shoot 30 rounds and start loading them as soon as you get into the range.  You won't have much time before the shooting starts.

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52 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said:

Just so you know, that wasn't my experience at Shooters in Little Egg Harbor earlier this week.  The instructor was very nice, easy to like, and generally agreeable.  The course of fire was not difficult but the instructor felt that there was a need to put everyone under pressure.  Not sure why.

There was some yelling, time limits, two shot and three shot drills. Commands to "holster" frequently which were handled by laying your gun on the counter - no actual holsters.   There was no time set aside to reload, you had to reload as you were being kind-of yelled at to shoot "three more rounds" or whatever the drill of the moment was.  I had a compact .380 since I thought you needed to qualify with what you carried and only had two 6 round mags.  I struggled to keep up and missed taking a few shots.   To be fair, the yelling wasn't drill-sargent-in-your-face style yelling but I don't know why it was needed at all.  It was also difficult to hear commands over the shooting with electric ear protection because every shot shuts down your ear muffs for half a second and we were shooting fast so you could probably only hear 1/3 of the time.

Shots were taken at lots of different distances and I don't think we actually shot out to 15 yards, probably closer to 10 or 11yds max.  I think we shot 30 rounds according to the ammo left in my box but I didn't count so I'm guessing.  Everyone passed.  I saw everyone else's target and never counted hits but I think the instructor may have been generous in scoring.

That said, after the shooting, which I didn't particularly enjoy, the instructor was once again very helpful, friendly, and accommodating.  We could put up to 4 handguns on the forms and as I said, everyone passed.

If you're going to shooters I recommend: (1) arrive 15 minutes early to pay - the class starts on time! (2) Bring the serial numbers of the guns you want to include on the form. You can't uncase your guns in the classroom and you won't have time in the range to write the numbers down, (3) Bring enough magazines to shoot 30 rounds and start loading them as soon as you get into the range.  You won't have much time before the shooting starts.

My muffs are the old-fashioned kind that attenuate sound constantly. T'will be interesting if I get an instructor in the same mode as the one you had. The guy on the phone claimed the Tuesday qual would be "pretty easy", which doesn't seem to describe your experience very well. We shall see....

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4 hours ago, samiam said:

My muffs are the old-fashioned kind that attenuate sound constantly. T'will be interesting if I get an instructor in the same mode as the one you had. The guy on the phone claimed the Tuesday qual would be "pretty easy", which doesn't seem to describe your experience very well. We shall see....

I would say the qualification was easy, at least easy to pass - considering the fact that everyone passed and accurate shooting didn't seem to be scrutinized especially harshly.  I think passing the qualifier was easy.  Enduring the qualifier wasn't.

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I just saw a new (to me at least) CCW course offering from We Shoot in Lakewood. The 2022 NRA 50State CCW Qualifying class. This from the NRA's American Rifleman digital site:

NRA Launches 50-State NRA CCW Course | An Official Journal Of The NRA (americanrifleman.org)

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3 hours ago, ShootersShooter said:

I just saw a new (to me at least) CCW course offering from We Shoot in Lakewood. The 2022 NRA 50State CCW Qualifying class. This from the NRA's American Rifleman digital site:

NRA Launches 50-State NRA CCW Course | An Official Journal Of The NRA (americanrifleman.org)

I wonder if what I took at FMJ is a version of this course? If so, I would rate it "needs work". I would also, based on personal experience, strongly recommend vetting the instructor and carefully checking his or her references before paying any money for such a class.

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3 hours ago, ShootersShooter said:

I just saw a new (to me at least) CCW course offering from We Shoot in Lakewood. The 2022 NRA 50State CCW Qualifying class. This from the NRA's American Rifleman digital site:

NRA Launches 50-State NRA CCW Course | An Official Journal Of The NRA (americanrifleman.org)

From the link:

"The NRA CCW Course, created for citizens who currently do not have a CCW permit, will vary in duration from one hour to 16 hours, and will follow one or more of 10 modules, to be determined by the certified NRA CCW Instructor. "

That's concerning to me.

I appreciate the NRA's effort to add standardization, but there should be NO requirement at all.  I sat through the hour long course (about 7 minutes of which was shooting) because it checks a box in NJ and is currently the law of the land, but 16 hours is inexcusable IMO...

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NRA is trying to make a buck off this. They supported enough gun laws. Either they get aggressive with pushing back and stop feeding more sh*t into the laws or they should go out of business.

 

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24 minutes ago, CJack said:

NRA is trying to make a buck off this.

The cynical side of me agrees.

A bunch of new people would pay to get 'certified' to provide the new training, trainers have to purchase the materials, certificates have to be paid for, NRA gets a fee for each person who signs up, etc, etc.

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4 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

From the link:

"The NRA CCW Course, created for citizens who currently do not have a CCW permit, will vary in duration from one hour to 16 hours, and will follow one or more of 10 modules, to be determined by the certified NRA CCW Instructor. "

That's concerning to me.

I appreciate the NRA's effort to add standardization, but there should be NO requirement at all.  I sat through the hour long course (about 7 minutes of which was shooting) because it checks a box in NJ and is currently the law of the land, but 16 hours is inexcusable IMO...

The class I took had 6 hours classroom instruction, followed by a 7 page test, on the first day; a scheduled 6 hours of range time on the 2nd. Students could leave the range at any time after they had completed a successful qualifying score. 80 people in the classroom, 15 on the range on my day (there were more assigned range days than classroom days). At $295 a head, that equates to a considerable amount of money changing hands. Making the assumption that it took 5 ea. 6 hour range days (the math for my class works out to 5.3 range days, but... there were 6 shooting lanes, utilized in shifts of 6, 6, & 3 students, so the class could have accomodated 3 more students in the about the same time, with about the same level of effort) to complete the curriculum for the 80 students in my class (for a total of 6 ea. 6 hour days, or 36 hours). By my math:

$295 x 80 = $23,600 / 36 = $655.56/hour

Now, II'm sure that the NRA gets a generous cut "off the top" as a royalty, and for the 2nd day, the range probably gets at least the $20/hour per student that is its customary fee for the general public ($9,600 - call it $10k). The instructor was assisted in the classroom session by two of the owners of FMJ, who did very little, and he was assisted in the range session by an FMJ range safety officer, who did share quite a bit of the work. My guess would be that the classroom help from FMJ principals was not directly compensated, but that the range officer was (if he was paid $80/hour, that would be another $2,400). Even so, since I am aware of at least 3, possibly 4 classroom dates by direct knowledge, and there could be several more scheduled by now, it would appear to be a quite lucrative activity. NTM that there seemed to be some indication (cited in my other posts on my experience in that class) that it was being used somewhat aggressively to find (or develop) opportunities for follow-up sales of handguns. 

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All the article says is that the NRA has set up various courses that would satisfy 50 states varying requirements and are a GUIDLINE for instructors to choose from. Which ones the individual states require and/or accept would be up to the individual instructor to pick & charge for. 

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26 minutes ago, ShootersShooter said:

All the article says is that the NRA has set up various courses that would satisfy 50 states varying requirements and are a GUIDLINE for instructors to choose from. Which ones the individual states require and/or accept would be up to the individual instructor to pick & charge for. 

Understood.

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On 7/31/2022 at 1:42 PM, 124gr9mm said:

In my opinion you'd be better served by contacting Shooters (Egg Harbor) or Gun For Hire (Woodland Park).  NEITHER range has you do the qual from a holster.  It's all from a bench or low ready, so that immediately eliminates that factor for you.

The course of fire for both is easier than anything i've read about the HCQ courses that other have taken, and I'm sure either place would come up with something reasonable for a 5 round revolver.

As others have mentioned, you absolutely should practice before doing the qual.  I appreciate that you're probably a confident shooter, but IMO there's no excuse for you going into the qual after not putting any rounds downrange for over 3 years.  You could dry fire with your revolver for a few hours a day if you wanted.

 

I spent a bit over 1-1/2 hours putting 136 rounds into Q targets at 7, 10, & 15 yards at South Jersey Shooting Club this morning. I wouldn't say I shot great, but I shot tremendously better than I had last Sunday at FMJ. I had maybe a total of 12 rounds off target area but on paper. Usually those were from the first shot after changing distance; for some reason, those tended to go just a little high. This is the only practice I will be able to get before qualification at Shooters on Tuesday morning, but I'm reasonably confident that I can pass a CoF like what I've seen described by others who have gone there. I will be interested to see if they live up to their promise over the phone of a CoF that can be accomplished with a 5-shot revolver without reloading gymnastics. Descriptions of that aspect of the qual there seem to vary considerably between the reports I have read. I do have 2 speedloaders, and I did recover my proficiency this morning for loading without them, but I'd prefer not to push my luck too far in that regard...

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2 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

Sounds good!  Let us know how you do!  Shooting is a perishable skill - you definitely need to knock the rust off.  Also now that you know how your qualifier was done you get rid of some of the nerves/jitters.

Funny how it doesn't really intuit as perishible until you try to do it after a long layoff. I still knew the gun, knew the trigger, knew the sights as independent skills; the knack of putting those skills together to hit the target reliably was what eroded. Thanks to all here for their encouragement!

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