qualification thread

[Alex V 99]

Stupid question: do we have to qualify twice a year forever like retired and active LEO?

[CJack 138]

5 minutes ago, Alex V said:

Stupid question: do we have to qualify twice a year forever like retired and active LEO?

No. Not as of now.

[High Exposure 5,661]

13 hours ago, samiam said:

I'm somehow missing the connection of most of that with the point of my post, which was that I intend to carry for self-protection, but I wouldn't use the gun if doing so put innocents in danger, even if that meant I failed at my own defense. Gun or no gun, if I fleeing is the safest option, all else equal, that is what I intend to do. Not sure if it was your intent, but the  phrase "earming your shot" almost makes it sound like you believe there is an obligation on my part to engage the threat, even if fleeing is my safest option. That may be the case for LEOs, but it is not true for me, and I acknowledge no such obligation. 

The part of your post that I quoted:

”If the cost of that approach meant that I increase my own risk in order to decrease the risk to innocent bystanders from my shots, I have no problem doing that.” 

That is earning your shot. 

That is the correct mindset when carrying a gun in public, whether professionally or for personal protection.

The only obligation “Earning your shot” puts you under is to make sure your shot won’t hurt an innocent and it won’t diminish your capability to prevail. If it will do either of those things, don’t take it. The “Nike Defense” - ie: running away, is absolutely valid under many circumstances and is often the right choice.

You don’t just get to shoot because a bad guy is shooting. Bad guys shoot indiscriminately. You are a good guy. You have to make sure to stay within your skill/ability envelop, make a positive target ID, and make sure that you have a clean backstop that is clear of innocents.

“Earning your shot” is the portion of a gunfight that most people never think about because you can’t experience or train for it by standing still in port shooting at paper. 

[Combat Auto 174]

I did my Qualification shoot this morning...The shoot was a lot of fun, fast and furious, we shot 35 rounds in less that 10 mins, one person said 7 mins don't know if he actually timed it...It was all SD distances out from 3 to 10 yards, lots of 1-handed, one head shot. Fast and furious, barking out commands for the various mini-drill one after the other, no stopping, we were required to reload not only mags into gun but stuffing rounds into mags all on the clock...It was a total HOOT! Haven't had that much fun shooting since I gave up USPSA competition a few years ago.

Every round I shot was spot on (9mm is a really easy gun to shoot especially given I mostly train with 45 cal), the biggest challange for me was to hear all the orders from the officer over the shots of say 7 shooters in the line up (yep, had my e-ear protection on full blast). He stayed mostly on the other end of the line up from where I was...

 

I'd say, for a Civilian based on the OVERWHELMING statistics about civilian shootings it was a very appropo test (much more relavent than making Granny shoot out to 25 yards). It might be a little challanging for Granny though based on the speed we went and having to stuff rounds (in) mags on the clock.

 

One page listing all the guns you qualify with, which is really moot, the statute is black and white qualify with one gun covers you for all guns you own.

 

Well, the rest is paper work to get the permit, and we have to shoot/qualify every 2 years which isn't too bad.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

17 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

I did my Qualification shoot this morning...The shoot was a lot of fun, fast and furious, we shot 35 rounds in less that 10 mins, one person said 7 mins don't know if he actually timed it...It was all SD distances out from 3 to 10 yards, lots of 1-handed, one head shot. Fast and furious, barking out commands for the various mini-drill one after the other, no stopping, we were required to reload not only mags into gun but stuffing rounds into mags all on the clock...It was a total HOOT! Haven't had that much fun shooting since I gave up USPSA competition a few years ago.

Every round I shot was spot on (9mm is a really easy gun to shoot especially given I mostly train with 45 cal), the biggest challange for me was to hear all the orders from the officer over the shots of say 7 shooters in the line up (yep, had my e-ear protection on full blast). He stayed mostly on the other end of the line up from where I was...

 

I'd say, for a Civilian based on the OVERWHELMING statistics about civilian shootings it was a very appropo test (much more relavent than making Granny shoot out to 25 yards). It might be a little challanging for Granny though based on the speed we went and having to stuff rounds (in) mags on the clock.

 

One page listing all the guns you qualify with, which is really moot, the statute is black and white qualify with one gun covers you for all guns you own.

 

Well, the rest is paper work to get the permit, and we have to shoot/qualify every 2 years which isn't too bad.

Was it 1 guy watching 7 shooters?

[Combat Auto 174]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Was it 1 guy watching 7 shooters?

2 Fellas where watching us. Whoever signed the "paper' has lots of nice credential, by the "book", no idea what credntials the other guy has but he seemed to know what he was doing.

[45Doll 5,874]

1 minute ago, Combat Auto said:

2 Fellas where watching us. Whoever signed the "paper' has lots of nice credential, by the "book", no idea what credntials the other guy has but he seemed to know what he was doing.

Where was this please?

[RichP 115]

1 hour ago, Combat Auto said:

I did my Qualification shoot this morning...The shoot was a lot of fun, fast and furious, we shot 35 rounds in less that 10 mins, one person said 7 mins don't know if he actually timed it...It was all SD distances out from 3 to 10 yards, lots of 1-handed, one head shot. Fast and furious, barking out commands for the various mini-drill one after the other, no stopping, we were required to reload not only mags into gun but stuffing rounds into mags all on the clock...It was a total HOOT! Haven't had that much fun shooting since I gave up USPSA competition a few years ago.

Every round I shot was spot on (9mm is a really easy gun to shoot especially given I mostly train with 45 cal), the biggest challange for me was to hear all the orders from the officer over the shots of say 7 shooters in the line up (yep, had my e-ear protection on full blast). He stayed mostly on the other end of the line up from where I was...

 

I'd say, for a Civilian based on the OVERWHELMING statistics about civilian shootings it was a very appropo test (much more relavent than making Granny shoot out to 25 yards). It might be a little challanging for Granny though based on the speed we went and having to stuff rounds (in) mags on the clock.

 

One page listing all the guns you qualify with, which is really moot, the statute is black and white qualify with one gun covers you for all guns you own.

 

Well, the rest is paper work to get the permit, and we have to shoot/qualify every 2 years which isn't too bad.

what do you mean "stuffing rounds into mags all on the clock"?

Do you lose points if you can't reload your mags quickly enough?

 

[124gr9mm 859]

2 hours ago, RichP said:

what do you mean "stuffing rounds into mags all on the clock"?

Do you lose points if you can't reload your mags quickly enough?

No.

"Points" are hits on the target.  Making you load mags and listen to barking commands while trying to hit the target was an attempt to put the shooter under a level of "stress".  Obviously it can't replicate the stress encountered while in an actual shootout, but it's done to get you off your game a bit and make it different than slow-firing at a paper target.

[Schrödinger's cat 87]

Interesting. Sounds pretty different than what the ranges near me are offering, but you got the qual and had a good time, that’s all that matters in the end. 

[Golf battery 1,223]

2 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

No.

"Points" are hits on the target.  Making you load mags and listen to barking commands while trying to hit the target was an attempt to put the shooter under a level of "stress".  Obviously it can't replicate the stress encountered while in an actual shootout, but it's done to get you off your game a bit and make it different than slow-firing at a paper target.

Sounds like my wife

[Shortfuse 39]

Took the day off today and got my references signed , got the notary, got fingerprinted and qualified at Shooters will be submitting Friday afternoon 

[ShootersShooter 120]

I was informed yesterday my application has been approved and sent to the court. One week after fingerprints were received by PD. Email requesting $5 to the township in a money order which I'll drop off this morning. 

[Combat Auto 174]

16 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Where was this please?

It was at Shooters in Egg Harbor...They did a great job, well organized, quick in and out, the Q-Officer  covered the fundi's of "Use of Force" - everyone here should know them by now, but there could be Nubies at the qual...And honestly the way this particular Q-officer ran the shoot it was a very good experience as far as being more realistic to SD than most venues (and I shot USPSA for 6 years too - which is also valuable in this regard)...And he did it in less than 10 minuts!!!

The only "beef" I had as I stated above, was they should be using a Bull-Horn to shout the commands over all the shooting, easy fix not sure why they don't...Being on opesite end of the line, I had to stick my head (back) from my booth look at his partner who was nearer to me and get the comand relayed to me. This takes time and we didn't have a lot of it with the reloading and shooting all on the clock. Bright side, I had more induced stress than others, so I got some extra free SD training .

[Combat Auto 174]

15 hours ago, RichP said:

what do you mean "stuffing rounds into mags all on the clock"?

Do you lose points if you can't reload your mags quickly enough?

 

It is interesting when I called for the appointment the Lady who scedules told me the reloads where not on the clock, so it was a surprise when I got there yesterday...

In the pre-briefing he did say we would shoot 35 rounds and reload on the clock, meaning changing mags and also stuffing rounds in the mags on the clock. NO time out to re-stuff your mags. (we of course were allowed to pre stuff the mags we had before it started)

Most of us had 3 mags so we knew we would have to stuff 5 more rounds into mags at some point. One guy had only 2 mags so he had a bigger challange...One guy came with 5 mags so he didn't have to do any stuffing on the clock. Kinda weird they did it that way, they should have just told everyone ahead of time that we will all use 3 mags to even the playing field.

But net, net, the suprise about stuffing and recharging on the clock was a pleasent one, lots of fun and  truly relavent-experience in a short 7-10 minuits.

What is also funny, in preperation a week ago I shot the 50R FBI qual at my outdoor range, I started at 25 Yards COLD and worked inwards (to make it a little more challanging) with my 9mm PPQ 4". I scored a 98% only dropping 1 round (9mm is an easy round to shoot especially if one mostly trains with 45 - no wonder it is so popular). So the shoot yesterday was nothing like that, in retrospect it was a pleasent surprise as I did find value in the Qual yesterday.

 

[45Doll 5,874]

2 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

It was at Shooters in Egg Harbor...

Thank you. Personally I've never heard of anyone carrying a box of ammo with them to manually reload their magazines while in the middle of a gunfight. So I'm not sure what utility that served, or what that has to do with accurately shooting a handgun.

[Shortfuse 39]

They were just trying to add a bit of stress to the exercise and maybe a bit of problem solving under stress 

3 hours ago, ShootersShooter said:

I was informed yesterday my application has been approved and sent to the court. One week after fingerprints were received by PD. Email requesting $5 to the township in a money order which I'll drop off this morning. 

What was the $5 money order for ?

[ShootersShooter 120]

I guess like the $2 for every P2P. 

[Combat Auto 174]

41 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

Thank you. Personally I've never heard of anyone carrying a box of ammo with them to manually reload their magazines while in the middle of a gunfight. So I'm not sure what utility that served, or what that has to do with accurately shooting a handgun.

.

1 minute ago, Combat Auto said:

YW...I think I and others here mentioned, the Officer wanted to get the point across that one has to think on their feet and deal with stress in a real life SD event so it was just being used as a method to help accomplish such...Honestly, imo, he did a great job overall given the constraints he has to deal with, and much more practicale/valuable then to ask us to shoot at 25 yards and what not...I shoot at 25 yards every time I go to the range, what he did yesterday was more unique and why I liked it. (He just needs to use a bull-horn :-)).

 

[45Doll 5,874]

2 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

YW...I think I and others here mentioned, the Officer wanted to get the point across that one has to think on their feet and deal with stress in a real life SD event so it was just being used as a method to help accomplish such...Honestly, he did it with aplomb given the constraints he has to deal with, and much more practicale/valuable then to ask us to shoot at 25 yards and what not...I shoot at 25 yards every time I go to the range, what he did yesterday was more unique and why I liked it.

I'll accept that. If he indeed managed to do all that in 10 minutes, I'll have to rethink why I spent two days and a thousand rounds at a tactical training course.

[Combat Auto 174]

14 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

I'll accept that. If he indeed managed to do all that in 10 minutes, I'll have to rethink why I spent two days and a thousand rounds at a tactical training course.

Well, I'll add, if one is a very experienced shooter, it was valuable in that sence because you are just slightly incrimenting your skill set, if one is not so experienced it might not work out too well...Our metaphoric "Granny" who I introduced last week in debate here who likely dosn't go to the range much, probably would have a hard time with it and as such not get much value. She would be much better off starting with a more formal training class.

But rest assured, even though 2 or 3 people where moaning and groaning about how difficult it was, everybody past. I told the instructor it was a totally Hoot (reminded me of USPSA), only that I was having trouble hearing him a bit. If you have been shooting for a while and say around once a month in frequency or say 9 times a year or so, and especially if you have competed in USPSA or equivelent, you will not have any issues passing.

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

2 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Thank you. Personally I've never heard of anyone carrying a box of ammo with them to manually reload their magazines while in the middle of a gunfight. So I'm not sure what utility that served, or what that has to do with accurately shooting a handgun.

Gimmick?

 

 

[RichP 115]

Don't know about gimmick, but it is quite common in the movies:

 

 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

6 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Thank you. Personally I've never heard of anyone carrying a box of ammo with them to manually reload their magazines while in the middle of a gunfight. So I'm not sure what utility that served, or what that has to do with accurately shooting a handgun.

 Nothing. It’s nonsense. They have to do something so you feel your money was well spent. There is zero real world application to making you stuff mags on the clock. It’s theater.

[124gr9mm 859]

35 minutes ago, samiam said:

Maybe the instructor will have better advice, but I'm not counting on it.   

Not sure why you're leaving anything to chance.

IMO you should get clarity before you go, or schedule somewhere else where they specifically accommodate revolvers.

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

58 minutes ago, samiam said:

 

FMJ is apparently following the HQC 2 qualification standard on the second day (after having "classrom time" on the first. In my case, I have to figure out the best reloading strategy for some of the segments, given that I'm using a 5-shot revolver. I do have a couple of HK speed-loaders that work well. At least one segment requires something like firing 3 shots, followed by 4 shots, with a fixed time limit covering both. I'm thinking the easiest and quickest solution would be to load 5, shoot as many as required, dump 5 (including any remaining live rounds along with the empties), reload 5, etc. I really hate to dump live rounds, and I don't see how it conforms to what is supposed to be measured, but I would rather not risk exceeding a time limit. Maybe the instructor will have better advice, but I'm not counting on it.   

There is a 5 Shot Revolver Qualification.

HQC 1 (5 shot)

https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/pdfs/dcj-firearms.pdf

They may not let you shoot that course, but it may give you an idea how to setup your reloads.

[Combat Auto 174]

There are hidden agenda's here, people are selling courses and looking for customers and of course are going to be biased to the methodology they are selling...Pick a Qualifying officer that suits your SD lifestyle and beliefs and go for it. If you think getting "tested" at 25 yards is adding value to what you are already doing at the range, go for it...If you think doing something which involves more stress at overwhelming statistical "civilian" SD distances whould add more value to whatever you do now at the range go for it. Just by luck yesterday, the latter worked for me (as I already shoot 25 yards every time I go to the range)...Or maybe pick a venue which offers both of some...

The important thing is to make your own decision, rather then listen to self proclaimed experts "wispering" in your ear on the internet as to what is best for you.

With that I take my leave, it has been nice, I'll be back next time we have a once in a lifetime ruling from SCOTUS which has emancipated us by giving us the ability to reclaim a freedom we should never have lost. And maybe create even (more) gun related business opertunities in NJ - LOL!

Good luck on your qual, I would expect most on the NJGF will do well wich ever approch they take.

It has been fun,

Adios Amigos!

[124gr9mm 859]

53 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Pick a Qualifying officer that suits your SD lifestyle and beliefs and go for it...

The important thing is to make your own decision, rather then listen to self proclaimed experts "wispering" in your ear on the internet as to what is best for you.

 

Agree