Adding an additional handgun to an existing carry permit

[LTC 10]

What are the required steps to add an additional handgun to an existing carry permit?

[Golf battery 1,223]

None   My pd told me when i went to hand in my second pistol qual that the njsp sent out a memo that one qualification is good for all of them.  So i said. Here just take this anyway and add it to my package.    Thats where im at   

[snappy456 23]

18 hours ago, Golf battery said:

None   My pd told me when i went to hand in my second pistol qual that the njsp sent out a memo that one qualification is good for all of them.  So i said. Here just take this anyway and add it to my package.    Thats where im at   

Several employees at Bob's Little Sport Shop in Glassboro told me the same thing. They said NJSP has told them that you only need to qualify with one pistol, then you can carry any other legally owned pistol.

[EdF 323]

The instructor that I know says that he hasn't seen anything from the AG to indicate that this is the case so he still includes the make, model and serial number from the weapon that you use to qualify.

He also points out that he has talked to several lawyers who have suggested that you should qualify with each gun that you expect to carry.  This way, if involved in a shooting you won't have to listen to some local prosecutor argue that you were not qualified with the gun that you used.  

Remember, the PD are the ones approving the permits but the attorneys are the ones who will be looking at the shootings.

Just throwin' it out there . . . 

[snappy456 23]

34 minutes ago, EdF said:

The instructor that I know says that he hasn't seen anything from the AG to indicate that this is the case so he still includes the make, model and serial number from the weapon that you use to qualify.

He also points out that he has talked to several lawyers who have suggested that you should qualify with each gun that you expect to carry.  This way, if involved in a shooting you won't have to listen to some local prosecutor argue that you were not qualified with the gun that you used.  

Remember, the PD are the ones approving the permits but the attorneys are the ones who will be looking at the shootings.

Just throwin' it out there . . . 

If the NJSP is telling gun shops that you can qualify with one gun, then it's that's the policy decision. They are the ones, at the direction of the state legislature, who have written the ccw regulations. Wouldn't they be in the driver's seat on this until the legislators write a new law with different direction?

[EdF 323]

3 minutes ago, snappy456 said:

Wouldn't they be in the driver's seat on this until the legislators write a new law with different direction?

As I said, they are the ones who are ISSUING the permits.  That's just great, right?  Well, it is until you are forced to use your gun.  Then the lawyers get involved.  If you trust the lawyers, then that SP issued permit will be perfect.

[snappy456 23]

24 minutes ago, EdF said:

As I said, they are the ones who are ISSUING the permits.  That's just great, right?  Well, it is until you are forced to use your gun.  Then the lawyers get involved.  If you trust the lawyers, then that SP issued permit will be perfect.

I agree. As soon as lawyers are invovled, someone loses. Even if you meet every single requirement (defined or undefined), there's a good chance you will still be arrested, prosecuted and maybe even sued. NJ is not a gun friendly state just because we can get permits now.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[snappy456 23]

22 hours ago, samiam said:

Not only would it likely not help a defendant permit holder in a criminal or civil court case resulting from an actual shooting, but it might not even give a cop pause about arresting that permit holder if the discrepancy somehow became apparent during a traffic stop, or some other routine interaction.

You're right, nothing will save you from a malicious prosecution if they want to make an example out of you. You will be arrested and prosecuted, but if the state police are giving specific direction that you can qualify with one gun then that is a legit defense. I've never seen the NJSP document, so I'm basing this on what several employees of Bob's told me. Regarding traffic and other routine stops, if it's routine then they don't have any probable cause to disarm you and check the serial numbers. That would require your consent, right?

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[45Doll 5,873]

Can anyone point to an official release as a document (on letterhead, signed, dated etc.) or a post on the state websites from either the NJSP or the AG that countermands the statute 2C:58-4?

No?

Then the statute stands until someone officially says otherwise. Hearsay and unattributed letters, memos and rumors don't count.

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.

2C:58-4. a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by subsection e. of N.J.S.2C:39-5. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Here's the exception to 2C:58-4 above:

N.J. Admin. Code § 13:54-2.7 - Issuance of a permit to carry a handgun

(a) Upon being satisfied of the sufficiency of the application and the fulfillment of the provisions of P.L. 1979, c. 58, the judge shall issue a permit. The issuing Superior Court judge shall return the original permit to carry a handgun along with the application endorsed by the issuing Superior Court judge, to the jurisdiction of origin.

(b) The court may, at its discretion, issue a limited type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he or she may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried.

(c) The Superintendent shall be provided with copies of all permits to carry handguns issued or re-issued by the Superior Court.

 

And I don't think we know yet if the permits issued by the court will have restrictions listed on them.  But, I agree.  As long as the judge doesn't restrict what we can carry, we can carry any handgun.

[45Doll 5,873]

1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said:

(b) The court may, at its discretion, issue a limited type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he or she may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried.

Now that's what I consider a legitimate reference. Thanks.

So the next questions are: what does a 'restricted' carry permit look like, and how does it differ (physically please) from an unrestricted one? What are the possible specific 'restrictions'? Anyone have a concrete example of each?

As to the part I underlined, if a court tries to specify where and why handguns may be carried, that will go right back to the SCOTUS. That's just 'justifiable need' by a different name.

While I'd never put anything past a NJ court, I'll be surprised if any of them issue 'restricted' permits. If anyone does wind up with a 'restricted' permit, please document it here.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

20 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

Now that's what I consider a legitimate reference. Thanks.

So the next questions are: what does a 'restricted' carry permit look like, and how does it differ (physically please) from an unrestricted one? What are the possible specific 'restrictions'? Anyone have a concrete example of each?

As to the part I underlined, if a court tries to specify where and why handguns may be carried, that will go right back to the SCOTUS. That's just 'justifiable need' by a different name.

While I'd never put anything past a NJ court, I'll be surprised if any of them issue 'restricted' permits. If anyone does wind up with a 'restricted' permit, please document it here.

Reading that part you underlined carefully, it says types of handgun. Make, model, caliber and serial number is a specific handgun, not a type. Semi-auto or revolver would be types.

[Tunaman 548]

26 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

Now that's what I consider a legitimate reference. Thanks.

So the next questions are: what does a 'restricted' carry permit look like, and how does it differ (physically please) from an unrestricted one? What are the possible specific 'restrictions'? Anyone have a concrete example of each?

As to the part I underlined, if a court tries to specify where and why handguns may be carried, that will go right back to the SCOTUS. That's just 'justifiable need' by a different name.

While I'd never put anything past a NJ court, I'll be surprised if any of them issue 'restricted' permits. If anyone does wind up with a 'restricted' permit, please document it here.

I am pretty sure that the restricted permits were for Security Guards that could only carry while on the job.  That may have changed now due to Bruen.

[45Doll 5,873]

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

Reading that part you underlined carefully, it says types of handgun. Make, model, caliber and serial number is a specific handgun, not a type. Semi-auto or revolver would be types.

@Mr.Stu Good catch. You and I would think types = pistol or revolver. I wonder if that's actually what the courts implemented. Hard to see what else it could mean. But... it's New Jersey, where the 'law' means what they want it to mean!

1 hour ago, Tunaman said:

I am pretty sure that the restricted permits were for Security Guards that could only carry while on the job.  That may have changed now due to Bruen.

@Tunaman Now that rings a bell. I seem to remember threads from a few years ago where that was exactly the case. Security guards could carry to and from work, and at work, but no where else. Back in the days when justifiable need ruled out anywhere else!

Thank you both. I'll wait to see if we get concrete examples of both your points.

[Combat Auto 174]

On 7/31/2022 at 8:52 PM, Golf battery said:

None   My pd told me when i went to hand in my second pistol qual that the njsp sent out a memo that one qualification is good for all of them.  So i said. Here just take this anyway and add it to my package.    Thats where im at   

Yes, this is very true...Unfortunatly (some) not all qualification ranges and some other private qualifications officers are telling people they have to qualify with each gun (and they make money from it)....ianal but njs 2c:58-4 section a, seems pretty clear to me.

[ESB 244]

On 8/2/2022 at 2:18 PM, EdF said:

The instructor that I know says that he hasn't seen anything from the AG to indicate that this is the case so he still includes the make, model and serial number from the weapon that you use to qualify.

He also points out that he has talked to several lawyers who have suggested that you should qualify with each gun that you expect to carry.  This way, if involved in a shooting you won't have to listen to some local prosecutor argue that you were not qualified with the gun that you used.  

Remember, the PD are the ones approving the permits but the attorneys are the ones who will be looking at the shootings.

Just throwin' it out there . . . 

Nappen said the same thing.  Only the permitting process mentions specific guns.  But the laws say that if you have a permit, you can carry any legal handgun you own.  He also said that doesn't mean you can't get in trouble and would have to fight it, if you had on you a different gun than on the permit.  He also highly recommended getting trained and documentation on any handgun you might use anyway.  One less worry thing the prosecutors can use against you.    

[45Doll 5,873]

3 minutes ago, ESB said:

He also said that doesn't mean you can't get in trouble and would have to fight it, if you had on you a different gun than on the permit.

There isn't any gun listed on the permit.

 

[snappy456 23]

I just submitted my application, and the police clerk told me that you can only carry the gun that you qualified with. She said that the physical permit will be redesigned at some point to show the specific guns you can carry.

I've seen the NJSP memo posted here saying the permit covers all guns you own, and have read the law itself which says the same thing. I hope this gets worked out before my permit comes in.

[RadioGunner 218]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:11 PM, 45Doll said:

There isn't any gun listed on the permit.

 

Some have permits restricted to the gun. There is no consistency.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

17 hours ago, RadioGunner said:

There is no consistency.

And this is what bothers me the most.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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