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SJ Guns

The Real Use of Force, Castle Doctine, Etc.

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So much speculation and rumor on this site about the legal use of force.  Are you required to retreat?  Can you use force to defend property? Can you defend someone else or only yourself?  Are the rules different in your home? A lot of information came from a guy who knows a guy who used to be a cop or something like that.

So here are the real answers to all of those questions in 4 parts.  If you plan to carry a firearm for self protection in NJ, you should know what the real law says.  And, unlike a lot of NJ law, this is pretty easy to understand.

New Jersey Statute 2C:3-4 Use of Force in Self-Protection
New Jersey Statute 2C:3-5. Use of force for the protection of other persons
New Jersey Statute 2C:3-6. Use of force in defense of premises or personal property
New Jersey Statute 2C:3-9. Mistake of law as to unlawfulness of force

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36 minutes ago, SJ Guns said:

So much speculation and rumor on this site about the legal use of force.  Are you required to retreat?  Can you use force to defend property? Can you defend someone else or only yourself?  Are the rules different in your home? A lot of information came from a guy who knows a guy who used to be a cop or something like that.

So here are the real answers to all of those questions in 4 parts.  If you plan to carry a firearm for self protection in NJ, you should know what the real law says.  And, unlike a lot of NJ law, this is pretty easy to understand.

New Jersey Statute 2C:3-4 Use of Force in Self-Protection
New Jersey Statute 2C:3-5. Use of force for the protection of other persons
New Jersey Statute 2C:3-6. Use of force in defense of premises or personal property
New Jersey Statute 2C:3-9. Mistake of law as to unlawfulness of force

 

 

I highly recommend everyone take a use of force class regardless of CCW status. It was worth every second. 

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You mean I can't just blast a shotgun through my closed front door? 

 

On a more serious note, a guy in NJ is headed to jail pretty soon for punching, and killing, a person who was trying to break into his car. The reasoning for the charge? He didn't first ask the perp to fuck off. 

Yes, you have to actually tell someone to not steal your property before attempting to stop them from doing so. 

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8 minutes ago, samiam said:

Got a link? I'm curious why the guy's lawyer didn't tell him in conference what he should have done so he could "remember" that he actually did it. The wannabe thief in this case certainly wasn't going to contradict him. 

Because it happend in JC i think and some camera caught the incident on tape. I beleieve he tried to argue he did infact tell they guy off, but LEO isn't buying based on the video. 

The video would appear he just ran up and suckered punched him.

Here it is: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nj.com/hudson/2022/08/hudson-man-knocked-out-car-burglar-with-one-punch-now-hes-charged-with-manslaughter.html%3foutputType=amp

 

 

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2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Because it happend in JC i think and some camera caught the incident on tape. I beleieve he tried to argue he did infact tell they guy off, but LEO isn't buying based on the video. 

The video would appear he just ran up and suckered punched him.

Here it is: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nj.com/hudson/2022/08/hudson-man-knocked-out-car-burglar-with-one-punch-now-hes-charged-with-manslaughter.html%3foutputType=amp

 

 

These are the times I wish I was called for jury duty so I could push for nullification. 

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10 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I've been summoned 3 times to serve jury duty, and not once even made it to the jury pool... its like they know...

LOL I think the trick is to hide your power level, just act like a typical MSM watching midwit supporting the current thing. That's my plan if they'll ever call me again.  You need to convince them you have no independent thoughts. 

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2C:3-4 

2.b.The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety 
by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto 
or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

	(i)The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor;

This would seem to indicate that you do have a duty to retreat inside your home unless immediate use of force is necessary (ie you don't have time to retreat).  You do not have a duty to retreat FROM your home (ie you don't have to leave your house).    

  

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4 hours ago, ESB said:

2C:3-4 

2.b.The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety 
by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto 
or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

	(i)The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor;

This would seem to indicate that you do have a duty to retreat inside your home unless immediate use of force is necessary (ie you don't have time to retreat).  You do not have a duty to retreat FROM your home (ie you don't have to leave your house).    

  

You're reading the wrong section of 2C:3-4. What you quoted are the general rules, which include when you are out in public.

This is what applies when you are in a dwelling: Note that it says a dwelling, not your dwelling and what little you have to do to justify deadly force in c.(2)(b).

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

   (2)   A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

   (a)   The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

   (b)   The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

   (3)   An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.
 

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