Jump to content
Variant

Wallet to hold the new PtC?

Recommended Posts

I’m one of those old farts who still has an FID card from 20 years ago when they were more reasonably sized and could just barely fit in a wallet if you cut it down.

The new PtC is much larger and won’t fit into any standard wallet.

What is your plan? Will you carry a secondary wallet that can fit the PtC (and maybe other firearms paperwork such as insurance card)?

Will you fold your PtC to fit it in your current wallet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have the measurements? I have been looking around, and I found a few holders that are designed to hold multiple passports, but don't know if those would work for NJ PtC. Even if it would, I still have an issue, since I now have 4 non-resident permits, and plan to add another (PA) if/when my NJ permit comes through. All my existing permits are credit card sized, I assume Pennsy is the same. I'd really like to have single dedicated holder or wallet for all of my carry permits. Obviously a smaller card will fit a larger case, but I'm concerned about losing the card if the case is too much larger or looser. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, unfortunately I’m not one of the lucky few who have received a card, so I don’t have the measurements.

Personally, I don’t like the idea of having to carry a second wallet or holder because I might forget that one day, and that would be serious trouble if caught without it  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, samiam said:

All my existing permits are credit card sized, I assume Pennsy is the same.

Yes the PA permit is a credit card size

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does NJ have to screw up everything including the FID and Permit to Carry card physical size? 

Seriously can they do anything correct!?

How idiotic is it that they can't just make them the same size as your driver's license?

Why are they asking for passport photos when they don't wind up on the permit?

Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen...

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Florida permit is the credit card type. Even with my FPID trimmed as tight as possible, it still doesn't fit well in my bifold wallet. Makes me wonder if the gnomes in the basement of 125 W. State St. in Trenton just sit around scheming on ways to inconvenience us plebeians who pay their salaries. Either that, or they want to make us more easily identifiable by our man purses we need to carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Why does NJ have to screw up everything including the FID and Permit to Carry card physical size? 

Seriously can they do anything correct!?

How idiotic is it that they can't just make them the same size as your driver's license?

Why are they asking for passport photos when they don't wind up on the permit?

Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen...

"Seriously can they do anything correct!?" - I recognize a rhetorical question when I see one :B:):

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Seriously can they do anything correctly!?

FIFY

  

14 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen...

 

From the Statutes:

2C:39-2. Presumptions
b. Licenses and permits. When the legality of a person's conduct under this chapter depends on his possession of a license or permit or on his having registered with or given notice to a particular person or agency, it shall be presumed that he does not possess such a license or permit or has not registered or given the required notice, until he establishes the contrary.

From the Admin Code:

 

§ 13:54-2.2 Permit required

No person, except as provided in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6, shall carry, hold or possess a handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

Annotations


Case Notes

N. J.S.A. 2C:39-2b creating presumption of absence of firearm carrying permit unless defendant presents contrary evidence held constitutional as not offensive to due process; presumption rational in view of statutory and regulatory requirement for possession of permit whenever handgun is carried. McCandless v. Beyer, 835 F.2d 58 (3rd Cir. 1987).
In prosecution for possession of a handgun without a permit, State did not have burden of offering evidence on the issue of whether defendant had a permit, pursuant to statutory presumption that an accused weapons offender does not possess a requisite license or permit unless he establishes the contrary. State v. Ingram, 98 N.J. 489, 488 A.2d 545 (1985).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

FIFY

From the Statutes:

2C:39-2. Presumptions
b. Licenses and permits. When the legality of a person's conduct under this chapter depends on his possession of a license or permit or on his having registered with or given notice to a particular person or agency, it shall be presumed that he does not possess such a license or permit or has not registered or given the required notice, until he establishes the contrary.

From the Admin Code:

 

§ 13:54-2.2 Permit required

No person, except as provided in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6, shall carry, hold or possess a handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

Annotations


Case Notes

N. J.S.A. 2C:39-2b creating presumption of absence of firearm carrying permit unless defendant presents contrary evidence held constitutional as not offensive to due process; presumption rational in view of statutory and regulatory requirement for possession of permit whenever handgun is carried. McCandless v. Beyer, 835 F.2d 58 (3rd Cir. 1987).
In prosecution for possession of a handgun without a permit, State did not have burden of offering evidence on the issue of whether defendant had a permit, pursuant to statutory presumption that an accused weapons offender does not possess a requisite license or permit unless he establishes the contrary. State v. Ingram, 98 N.J. 489, 488 A.2d 545 (1985).

Someone in administration here should take a serious look into reconfiguring the way quoting works here, including turning off the "feature" that quotes multiple posts until a successful "save" is performed. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting pretty tired of reading that "samiam said" something he (I) never said or wrote at all, to wit:

"  2 hours ago, samiam said:

Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, samiam said:

Someone in administration here should take a serious look into reconfiguring the way quoting works here, including turning off the "feature" that quotes multiple posts until a successful "save" is performed. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting pretty tired of reading that "samiam said" something he (I) never said or wrote at all, to wit:

"  2 hours ago, samiam said:

Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen..."

I never have issues with it - Quote function only takes the most recent quote - doesn't embed previous quotes.  Saving posts is actually a benefit - sometimes I have to navigate away and come back and my draft reply is there...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, samiam said:

Someone in administration here should take a serious look into reconfiguring the way quoting works here, including turning off the "feature" that quotes multiple posts until a successful "save" is performed. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting pretty tired of reading that "samiam said" something he (I) never said or wrote at all, to wit:

"  2 hours ago, samiam said:

Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen..."

Sorry, I don't know how it happened and didn't notice the incorrect attribution before I posted it. I have fixed it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Variant said:

I’m one of those old farts who still has an FID card from 20 years ago when they were more reasonably sized and could just barely fit in a wallet if you cut it down.

The new PtC is much larger and won’t fit into any standard wallet.

What is your plan? Will you carry a secondary wallet that can fit the PtC (and maybe other firearms paperwork such as insurance card)?

Will you fold your PtC to fit it in your current wallet?

Is it paper like the firearms id card?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, nooch450 said:

It's still not clear to me. So far I understand it as you will be arrested and prosecuted but if you prove you have the permit you will be let off the hook afterwards?

That's pretty much how I read it too. Why wouldn't you carry the permit if it means you can avoid the hassle of being detained?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Sorry, I don't know how it happened and didn't notice the incorrect attribution before I posted it. I have fixed it now.

No apology necessary.  What sometimes happens to me is I compose a reply quoting a post, and for some reason the forum save operation does not complete successfully. That could occasionally be my omission, or a lag in my internet connection, or something else. If I then go to comment on another post, both replies (and the sections quoted) get saved consecutively in a single post. This is sometimes exacerbated by the forum software when I attempt to parse the thread on quotes to show only the most recent quote, especitally if the current poster is trying to redact some of the previous quote(s) for brevity. I think that last bit might be what happened to you. When I see that this has happened to me, I try to go reopen the posts and move the offending quote into it's own post, but sometimes someone has already posted a reply to that one, which makes that remedy awkward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

That's pretty much how I read it too. Why wouldn't you carry the permit if it means you can avoid the hassle of being detained?

I would carry it, but I like to fully understand the law. What if you lost or forgot your wallet by accident? Good to know what your potentially dealing with....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, nooch450 said:

I would carry it, but I like to fully understand the law. What if you lost or forgot your wallet by accident? Good to know what your potentially dealing with....

I would be very worried carrying a firearm without the permit.  You might get a cop who believes that you have it and doesn't care.  You might get a cop who arrests you and you sit in jail for the weekend..   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Variant said:

I would be very worried carrying a firearm without the permit.  You might get a cop who believes that you have it and doesn't care.  You might get a cop who arrests you and you sit in jail for the weekend..   

The basis of my question was to find out if carrying without the permit on you has the same long term consequences as carrying without the permit at all.

Meaning is it unlawful possession or does it get dropped when you show or prove you do have one but just didn't have the permit on you at the time.

When I get mine, hopefully sometime soon, I plan to keep it in my wallet at all times next to my NJFID, FL, NH, UT permits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, nooch450 said:

The basis of my question was to find out if carrying without the permit on you has the same long term consequences as carrying without the permit at all.

Meaning is it unlawful possession or does it get dropped when you show or prove you do have one but just didn't have the permit on you at the time.

When I get mine, hopefully sometime soon, I plan to keep it in my wallet at all times next to my NJFID, FL, NH, UT permits.

Even in this terrible state I can’t see them charging you with the same felony charges for carrying a firearm without your PtC card as if you didn’t have the PtC in the first place. 

But I don’t doubt for a second that you’ll be taking a ride and having an unpleasant night. So if I lost my card, I would be very worried to carry until I got a new one. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nooch450 said:

I would carry it, but I like to fully understand the law. What if you lost or forgot your wallet by accident? Good to know what your potentially dealing with....

I wonder what the repercussions would be from duplicating the permit onto smaller, CC sized media and carrying that in your wallet? A really aggressive cop could cite you, but if he or she was reasonably sure you really have a valid permit and could produce it at a hearing, would most LEOs bother? You also could keep the original in your vehicle so that you could produce it on short notice if you drove somewhere. Probably not advisable, just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Variant said:

Even in this terrible state I can’t see them charging you with the same felony charges for carrying a firearm without your PtC card as if you didn’t have the PtC in the first place. 

But I don’t doubt for a second that you’ll be taking a ride and having an unpleasant night. So if I lost my card, I would be very worried to carry until I got a new one. 

I hope that everyone who applied is planning to make a very good digital copy of their permit as soon as it is issued. From what I've heard about the paper, you might even be able to produce a copy good enough that it is indistingishable from the original (at least, under most circumstances). That way if you did lose your permit, you would at least have a plausible copy to offer until it was replaced. I did that with my FID card, then laminated the official document. Now that I think about it, does an official procedure for replacing a NJ carry permit even exist? I wouldn't put it past this state to take the attitude that if you lose your permit, you are SOL until renewal time.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, samiam said:

I hope that everyone who applied is planning to make a very good digital copy of their permit as soon as it is issued. From what I've heard about the paper, you might even be able to produce a copy good enough that it is indistingishable from the original (at least, under most circumstances). That way if you did lose your permit, you would at least have a plausible copy to offer until it was replaced. I did that with my FID card, then laminated the official document. Now that I think about it, does an official procedure for replacing a NJ carry permit even exist? I wouldn't put it past this state to take the attitude that if you lose your permit, you are SOL until renewal time.  

I believe some people who received their PtC have said that they were told if they want to add any new firearms on they could go back to the court to have it added. So I assume if you lose the card you could go to the court the same way to have a new one issued.

As far as the card itself, since it’s just a piece of thick paper, I’m thinking we could fold it in half to fit it in our normal wallet. It’s not like there’s a picture or fingerprint or chip inside of it, it’s just ink on paper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Variant said:

I believe some people who received their PtC have said that they were told if they want to add any new firearms on they could go back to the court to have it added. So I assume if you lose the card you could go to the court the same way to have a new one issued.

As far as the card itself, since it’s just a piece of thick paper, I’m thinking we could fold it in half to fit it in our normal wallet. It’s not like there’s a picture or fingerprint or chip inside of it, it’s just ink on paper.

I read that that too. I believe it was attributed to cop at a local PD, not a county Superior Court. I'm pretty skeptical. Basically, I'll believe it when I see concrete evidence. Yeah, you could fold it. But if it is the same el cheapo paper as my FID is printed on, it wouldn't take many unfolding and refolding operations before the print began to crack, and the card began to fall apart, and became difficult to read That's why I copied, then laminated, my FID in the first place. Statement by hypothetical LEO examining unfolded NJ carry permit: "Sir, this document is illegible to me. I can't even make out the name of the permitted carrier. I'm going to need for you to accompany me downtown while we try to verify it."  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...