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Pulled over in NJ while Carrying?

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Just now, Scorpio64 said:

Let me ask you this in a clear and plain way.  Do you view cooperating with police during a traffic stop as licking boot?  A simple yes or no will do, but feel free to explain.

Police stop = Gov tax collector trying to steal from you so since you're so inclined to help. Why not just have the cop follow you to bank
withdraw your limit and hand it to them. LOL. some of you people are a bunch of ....

The law says I dont have to answer any of their questions and I can do one of two things. 1) show my ID and that generally ends most stops as if I were a cop. 2) Hide the ID and screw with the just because I can. 

Hell after work I race the cops going to the highway.  My agency knows my car and I have yet to be stopped flying past them @ over 85. 

 

 

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Not complying with duty to inform in NJ is a felony charge (a "crime" in NJ speak). I am not catching a felony charge for that. If the cops want to arrest me, I am not going to give them a reason to justify it.  Cops are trained to spot weapons and in the heat of the moment your shirt may lift up or your weapon may print and there is a good chance that the cop will see your weapon. At that point, since you didn't disclose you already committed a felony, the cop is well within his right to arrest you and then you'll get charged with a felony even if everything else you did was legal. 

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17 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

  Cops are trained to spot weapons and in the heat of the moment your shirt may lift up 

Yes I know I seen those posters all over the PD. They are kind of funny. I can take a picture of one if you want to see. 
Also in the moment my shirt lift up. LMAO, what? I thought this was a traffic stop not a holly wood porno shot try out. Why the hell is my shirt randomly lifting up? 

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29 minutes ago, IhateNJ said:

Yes I know I seen those posters all over the PD. They are kind of funny. I can take a picture of one if you want to see. 
Also in the moment my shirt lift up. LMAO, what? I thought this was a traffic stop not a holly wood porno shot try out. Why the hell is my shirt randomly lifting up? 

If you hand over your license? 

The bigger point though, is why give them any "out" to prosecute you. 

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2 hours ago, IhateNJ said:

Meh who cares? Concealed carry means concealed carry. I will not tell them. I'm not having my property "removed" for "their safety" nor am i stepping out of my car "for their safety" . Everything is about "their " safety and they are the biggest bunch of pussies in the world, everything scares them...from dogs to to window tint to the wrong color skin.  Enough is enough.  If I get stopped 

"Do you have any weapons on you"  My answer would be "I dont answer police questions without my lawyer
and i'm invoking the 5th from this point on" (This is where I wouldn't show my connection obviously) . 

For just a traffic stop any "reasonable" person would not have a reason to search just because I don't want to answer questions and with nothing more to go on should they search anyway and find it just
about any D- or better lawyer will have that thrown out for illegal search.  They cant hit me for "lying"
about the weapon as I refused to answer it. I cannot be compelled to testify against myself. 

I was out of state awhile back concealed carrying. Needed to get to an area that only a cop could
access so a LT gave me a ride to that spot and as i sat in the front seat I never said "hmm, now
would be a good time to tell this LT I have a .45 on my hip) The state had no duty to inform and
again concealed carry means just that. 

I said it before the idiot law and i'll saw it after. If i am stopped I will not answer that question. 

Yeah…let us know how that works out for you.
 

Good luck. 

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4 hours ago, RadioGunner said:


The Bruen standard is that those historical analogies had to be in effect at the time of the founding. Do we have an example of duty to inform laws from that time period? 

And were they wide spread throughout the nation?

Even today, only 12 states require a duty to inform. 100 years ago there were probably none... let alone 200 years ago. 

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2 hours ago, RadioGunner said:

Not complying with duty to inform in NJ is a felony charge (a "crime" in NJ speak). I am not catching a felony charge for that. If the cops want to arrest me, I am not going to give them a reason to justify it.  Cops are trained to spot weapons and in the heat of the moment your shirt may lift up or your weapon may print and there is a good chance that the cop will see your weapon. At that point, since you didn't disclose you already committed a felony, the cop is well within his right to arrest you and then you'll get charged with a felony even if everything else you did was legal. 

There is a lot of legal grey area. 

If you get pulled over you can literally use your 1st ammendment right to tell the cop you are exercising your 5th Ammendment rights to self incrimination and will not be communicating with them. 

The law is also arguably a 4th Ammendment violation since you are required to disclose information of items you are in possession, which constitutes a defacto search. 

Since carrying a firearm is a legally protect act these days, I don't see how it's reasonable to demand such information from someone unless there was a specific reason other than "officer safety". 

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Just now, IhateNJ said:

Meh who cares? Concealed carry means concealed carry. I will not tell them. I'm not having my property "removed" for "their safety" nor am i stepping out of my car "for their safety" . Everything is about "their " safety and they are the biggest bunch of pussies in the world, everything scares them...from dogs to to window tint to the wrong color skin.  Enough is enough.  If I get stopped 

"Do you have any weapons on you"  My answer would be "I dont answer police questions without my lawyer
and i'm invoking the 5th from this point on" (This is where I wouldn't show my connection obviously) . 

For just a traffic stop any "reasonable" person would not have a reason to search just because I don't want to answer questions and with nothing more to go on should they search anyway and find it just
about any D- or better lawyer will have that thrown out for illegal search.  They cant hit me for "lying"
about the weapon as I refused to answer it. I cannot be compelled to testify against myself. 

I was out of state awhile back concealed carrying. Needed to get to an area that only a cop could
access so a LT gave me a ride to that spot and as i sat in the front seat I never said "hmm, now
would be a good time to tell this LT I have a .45 on my hip) The state had no duty to inform and
again concealed carry means just that. 

I said it before the idiot law and i'll saw it after. If i am stopped I will not answer that question. 

and after July,  with your attitude you will get arrested and lose your gun rights forever just because you didnt tell them you had a gun.  I dont like the law either but unless it gets struck down you will be obligated to tell them.  Only good things can come out of years of people telling  the police they have a gun and no problems ever pop up with those people.  Once the cops figure out(they already know) that permit holders are no threat at all it will be good for all of us.

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11 hours ago, IhateNJ said:

Ah, a boot licker I see. So by invoking my rights im escalating the issue. Too bad they are my rights. 

I also said my connections. I could flip the script and show my police agency non police employee ID and as that has before it would squash a majority of possible traffic tickets. Yea its strange and ironic that someone that hates the cops as much as I do but works for them. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?  

Stop insulting other posters...! Enough of that.  It's inappropriate, against forum rules and frankly, if comes off belligerent and bratty. I'm sure you can do better!  

And I hope everyone else on here knows they shouldn't be taking rash-sounding legal advice from strangers on the Internet... do I even need to say that? Hopefully not! 

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17 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

There is a lot of legal grey area. 

If you get pulled over you can literally use your 1st ammendment right to tell the cop you are exercising your 5th Ammendment rights to self incrimination and will not be communicating with them. 

The law is also arguably a 4th Ammendment violation since you are required to disclose information of items you are in possession, which constitutes a defacto search. 

Since carrying a firearm is a legally protect act these days, I don't see how it's reasonable to demand such information from someone unless there was a specific reason other than "officer safety". 

 

If you do want to go down the road of challenging duty to inform on constitutional grounds, more power to you. But as it is in the letter of the law in many states, you will probably be in jail or at least legal limbo for some time.

In other words, it's not a hill I would die on, and if law enforcement really wants to go down the road of violating my rights, I don't want to give them an "out" so they can put me in the wrong. 

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14 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

Just remember, shitty attitudes often make for shitty outcomes. 
 

You do you. 

That's kinda dependent on the officer. 

If you exercise a right, does that make for a shitty attitude? Or is it just that cops hate it when you do it?

 

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8 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

That's kinda dependent on the officer. 

If you exercise a right, does that make for a shitty attitude? Or is it just that cops hate it when you do it?

 

Exercising a right can be done without acting like an asshole. 

Grown ups know how to do this..

 

 

 

I really don’t get the hate that some of y’all have for law enforcement. 

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2 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

Exercising a right can be done without acting like an asshole. 

Grown ups know how to do this..

 

 

 

I really don’t get the hate that some of y’all have for law enforcement. 

Where did I encourage being an asshole? And how are my comments anti cop? 

I have and will always beleive that LEOs are there to do a job, and its my perspective they will hold you accountable for anything you tell them. 

I have offered information to cops when I was younger, I thought being open and truthful was the way to go. That got me screwed and ticketed for some silly shit I've never even seen in my life. 

So my Motto now is, keep your mouth shut at all costs... be respectful 

2 hours ago, 45Doll said:

IMO, someone who responds to a traffic stop as though it was a Supreme Court constitutional hearing is headed for some massive inconvenience. At the very least.

Ask yourself why that is? 

Why do Cops get so mad they will inconvenience you for simply stating your rights? 

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3 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Where did I encourage being an asshole? And how are my comments anti cop? 

I have and will always beleive that LEOs are there to do a job, and its my perspective they will hold you accountable for anything you tell them. 

I have offered information to cops when I was younger, I thought being open and truthful was the way to go. That got me screwed and ticketed for some silly shit I've never even seen in my life. 

So my Motto now is, keep your mouth shut at all costs... be respectful 

Ask yourself why that is? 

Why do Cops get so mad they will inconvenience you for simply stating your rights? 

I never said you encouraged anyone to be an asshole. Just saying that having a good attitude will go a long way with you having a positive encounter with LEO. 
 

In my 57 years, I’ve been pulled over a lot. Not once have I been beaten, harassed, cuffed and stuffed, searched, asked to get out of my vehicle, shot, or killed by a cop. 
I’ve always maintained a positive and respectful  attitude towards LEO, and they have in turn treated me the same way. 
MOST all of my traffic stops have ended with a warning, and I think it was largely due to my attitude towards the officer. 
99% of the time life works that way. 

I can’t speak for your experience, but I’m pretty sure that those who act like an entitled asshole to the police get treated in kind. 
 

I know what works for me, and I’ll continue to do just that. You do you. 

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7 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Ask yourself why that is? 

Why do Cops get so mad they will inconvenience you for simply stating your rights?

I couldn't say. I've never had a cop get mad, or found it necessary to state my constitutional rights during a traffic stop. Perhaps because I've always had a civil discussion about the topic at hand, including any pertinent facts about the moment in question.

Of course I never started a constitutional argument about an administrative issue either. Nor have I ever given the impression that I'm spoiling for an argument.

And yes, I've had traffic stops. Including two just last year.

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32 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

I never said you encouraged anyone to be an asshole. Just saying that having a good attitude will go a long way with you having a positive encounter with LEO. 
 

In my 57 years, I’ve been pulled over a lot. Not once have I been beaten, harassed, cuffed and stuffed, searched, asked to get out of my vehicle, shot, or killed by a cop. 
I’ve always maintained a positive and respectful  attitude towards LEO, and they have in turn treated me the same way. 
MOST all of my traffic stops have ended with a warning, and I think it was largely due to my attitude towards the officer. 
99% of the time life works that way. 

I can’t speak for your experience, but I’m pretty sure that those who act like an entitled asshole to the police get treated in kind. 
 

I know what works for me, and I’ll continue to do just that. You do you. 

It hasn't been 57 years for me (though it's close) but that's been my EXACT experience with being pulled over.

I drove like an idiot when I was younger, so I got pulled over frequently, but even back then I was as courteous as possible.  That resulted in many more warning than tickets.  Never searched, arrested, tased, shot, etc.

Did I answer more questions than "necessary"?  Absolutely, but I kept everything conversational, so i asked the cops questions too.  And they answered.  I did encounter a fair number of douchebags, but even then, I was nice and polite.  No need to put myself in a shitty mood just because some asshole on the night shift lives his life that way.

If I'm carrying and get pulled over (before July) I'm not going to offer that I'm carrying, but if asked I'll be honest and say yes and share my permit (and copy of court order).  I travel in compliance with the law, so things should end there, but if they go further, so be it.  I'll complain along the way and cite reasons why we're going out of bounds, but I'll still play along.

Starting in July I'll obviously notify right away.

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5 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

I never said you encouraged anyone to be an asshole. Just saying that having a good attitude will go a long way with you having a positive encounter with LEO. 
 

In my 57 years, I’ve been pulled over a lot. Not once have I been beaten, harassed, cuffed and stuffed, searched, asked to get out of my vehicle, shot, or killed by a cop. 
I’ve always maintained a positive and respectful  attitude towards LEO, and they have in turn treated me the same way. 
MOST all of my traffic stops have ended with a warning, and I think it was largely due to my attitude towards the officer. 
99% of the time life works that way. 

I can’t speak for your experience, but I’m pretty sure that those who act like an entitled asshole to the police get treated in kind. 
 

I know what works for me, and I’ll continue to do just that. You do you. 

Well, we certainly don't share the same experience and I have never given a cop a poor attitude. 

I haven't had much interactions in the last 10 years, but when I was under 30 years old I can't think of many positives. 

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5 hours ago, 45Doll said:

I couldn't say. I've never had a cop get mad, or found it necessary to state my constitutional rights during a traffic stop. Perhaps because I've always had a civil discussion about the topic at hand, including any pertinent facts about the moment in question.

Of course I never started a constitutional argument about an administrative issue either. Nor have I ever given the impression that I'm spoiling for an argument.

And yes, I've had traffic stops. Including two just last year.

I've been detained for 2 hours and had a vehicle illegally searched because I wasn't willing to share the details of my night.. where I was going or coming from. 

I was polite to the officer, and even in agreement why I was pulled over to begin with. BUT, for some reason if you don't participate in the phishing expedition you're somehow guilty of a crime.

People seem to confuse the concept of being polite and respectful with being submissive to information. 

Seems like these positive experiences you guys detail aren't because you were polite and respectful, but because you simply offered any information that was requested of you. 

Personally, it's the cops that get argumentative. If I say I'm not willing to answer an unrelated question, that should kinda be the end of it, right? Not a 30 minute argument about how it's in my "best interest" to just answer the question. 

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17 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I've been detained for 2 hours and had a vehicle illegally searched because I wasn't willing to share the details of my night.. where I was going or coming from. 

I was polite to the officer, and even in agreement why I was pulled over to begin with. BUT, for some reason if you don't participate in the phishing expedition you're somehow guilty of a crime.

People seem to confuse the concept of being polite and respectful with being submissive to information. 

Seems like these positive experiences you guys detail aren't because you were polite and respectful, but because you simply offered any information that was requested of you. 

Personally, it's the cops that get argumentative. If I say I'm not willing to answer an unrelated question, that should kinda be the end of it, right? Not a 30 minute argument about how it's in my "best interest" to just answer the question. 

That's been my experience. Been pulled over doing 95 three different times, one time admitted to drinking (i may or may not have been over the limit, not sure) and honesty got me out of it each time. No hostility and no issues. But I think it largely depends on the police officer. Some just hate everyone or just want to exert their power/authority. Some want to keep the public safe and not hassle good people over minor stuff. Its like a box of chocolates.

That being said, I've probably watched 1000+ 1st amendment audits and I feel empowered to assert my rights when I deem necessary. I know the absolutists would say to do so every time. If I get pulled over for a traffic infraction, I would probably be honest because that has served me very well in the past. If its a situation where they want to search my car, even though I have nothing to hide, I will refuse consent and tell them to get a warrant. When I was younger I thought that saying no to a search was the same as saying "i have something to hide" and they would find it anyways and as such was subject to numerous searches. Of course, I was a good kid but ignorant to my rights.

I guess, case by case and to each their own.

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On 1/30/2023 at 12:24 PM, IhateNJ said:

Ah, a boot licker I see. So by invoking my rights im escalating the issue. Too bad they are my rights. 

I also said my connections. I could flip the script and show my police agency non police employee ID and as that has before it would squash a majority of possible traffic tickets. Yea its strange and ironic that someone that hates the cops as much as I do but works for them. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?  

dude....chill. i know johnnyb personally. dude is FAR from a bootlicker. but he IS very smart.

 

 you might also wanna reconsider your "connections" getting you off the hook. i know a few cops that are very good people, do their damndest to try to improve their community(read that if you don't act like an ass, they probably won't ticket you, and they don't go bat$ht arresting people). they also won't let people off for showing id with "connections". ya did the deed,,,,,,,,,,

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2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Seems like these positive experiences you guys detail aren't because you were polite and respectful, but because you simply offered any information that was requested of you. 

 

Oh stop.

There's a difference between having a conversation with a cop and offering "any information that was requested".

I was pulled over on my way to Cherry Ridge last spring and when the cop asked where I was headed (as they always do), I told him I was out for an extended lunch break for the first time in a month because things had been so busy at work.  I told him I work from home so I usually end up cutting lunch short, but that day was too nice out so I was going to get some time just for me.  No wife, no kids, just me and some open air.

Way too much information, but who fucking cares?  I didn't say "I'm on my way to Cherry Ridge with rifles, pistols, a shotgun, and hundreds of rounds of ammo", and I didn't say "I don't answer questions to police officers during traffic stops".

He laughed and went back to his car.  He came back after running my information and just gave me a warning.

Yes, the cop may have suspected where I was headed, but my story was plausible (and it was the truth) and he was satisfied that I wasn't on drugs or otherwise a danger to society.  Had he asked to search my vehicle, I'd simply reply, "no I'd rather not.  I don't want to waste any more of my lunch break than possible on the side of the road".

Being able to interact with cops doesn't mean you're licking their boots.

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Just now, GRIZ said:

I can carry under LEOSA.  I've been pulled over in NJ and several other states whilst carrying.  This includes Constitutional Carry states.  I've always informed and never had a bad experience.

Well, you’re a (retired) cop, so I don’t think you’d have a bad experience. 

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i'm figuring a lot of people are gonna get jammed up because of this. i kinda feel like they'll quietly link our ccw info to our drivers license, and will already know we've got a ccw........so when someone decides that they don't have to inform of the fact that they're carrying.......they're gonna get jammed up really bad.

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