NJ LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DESTROY RIGHT TO CARRY

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

I think we have established that ‘Big Guns’ doesn’t do anything to be part of the solution…so I guess he chooses to be part of the problem. 

He seems…familiar…I suspect he’s a banned member who created a new account…

 

 

[RadioGunner 218]

33 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

I think we have established that ‘Big Guns’ doesn’t do anything to be part of the solution…so I guess he chooses to be part of the problem. 

He seems…familiar…I suspect he’s a banned member who created a new account…

 

 

Exactly. These people love to hear themselves talk and be "right"

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[xXxplosive 824]

13 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

 

What you are seem to be failing to understand is that legal cases move exceedingly slowly. Courts frequently allow 45 days for responses to motions and another 45 days for replies to those responses. That's 3 months gone for a single argument. Is it nuts? Sure, but that is still what it is.

 

 

Well, I've been following this since the '70s......guess you know what slow means.....why in the early '90s with the meetings we all went to with the NRA here in Clinton, NJ....including such newspaper columnists at the time, Outdoor Writer / Howard Brant....the NRA bailed on this state telling us back then it was a Lost Cause.....guess they had the foresight we didn't.............if it wasn't for Thomas, we'd have nothin'....and now it's worse than it was last month.....almost back to "Zero".....hoping the future holds a brighter outlook here.....I dunno.....you youngsters may just get a lesson on who your dealing with, the State of New Jersey, using your monies against you.......I hope not.

[BigGuns 262]

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

So far, none of the unconstitutional statutes you mention have been knocked down....and yes, you are right, some of them have been standing for 4 years and plenty more much longer and they still have not been knocked down.

Well, you're the only one so far that's realistic, and truly see what has gone on. Many others here feel THIS time we'll get an injunction, and we'll win. My point was, just look at history, and let that be your guide.

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Now look at the Bruen decision. That is 6 months old. Do you really expect multiple cases to be resolved in 6 months when it can take 3 months for a single argument to run through the court?

I'm not specifically pointing to this decision, I know it takes years to sort out. But I'm also not naive to think this is the end all, and all our rights will come flooding back because of it. I believe some here expect that to be the case.

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Next, try to be objective when looking at the history of these cases. Do you think it would have been better to lose (picking at random) the mag capacity case 2 years ago and have to start from scratch with a new case post-Bruen,

The mag ban is the one I've mentioned multiple times. It should have been an easy one for us to win. But it's gone back through the courts two or three times, and still not overturned and upheld. And during the Bruen decision, the S.C. wouldn't even touch it, and kicked it back to the lower courts, and square one.

Hell, the 15 round law goes back to the 1990s, and was never overturned or repealed. That's a long time to fight and not get the desired results.

So, if we can't win the easy ones, like magazines and evil features, what's the prognosis for the hard ones?

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The lawyers working for us do not have infinite resources, both in terms of money and time and they are prioritizing what they work on for the most effective use of the resources available.

No doubt, it's a David and Goliath situation, and the state has really deep pockets. But that said, In many areas of Life and Sports, is decided on Wins and Losses. And in that case, the batting record isn't great regarding gun owners in this state.

Yes, the donated money is important. I don't know, do we have the right team in for this game? What's their batting average?  What would a head coach do if his quarterback kept throwing interceptions or a pitcher was allowing 5 runs per inning? That might sound harsh, but it's reality.

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

You may not regard it as complaining, but all you seem to do is cast shade on the efforts and progress that has been made. You are not helping, and you are drawing energy away from those of us that see a better future.

So giving my opinion is drawing energy from what's really going on? Sure, if you and others want to call a different look at the situation as "complaining", feel free. I don't count my chickens before they're hatched, and history is usually a good teacher.  Call it what you wish. If my point of view upsets some people, that's an emotional issue they need to deal with.

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

I have given you the admission you wanted.

Thank you for being honest, and not just defaulting to the accepted group think by some here. Yes, we all hope these overburdening laws go away, time will tell. I believe keeping your eyes wide open is the way forward.

[Scorpio64 5,155]

5 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

Call it what you wish. If my point of view upsets some people, that's an emotional issue they need to deal with.

Gaslight much?

[BigGuns 262]

4 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

NJs carry law was literally struck down.. you coincidentally showed up here shortly after.. 

We're still very curious what brought you to these forums.

Just like the other 250 people who signed up after the Bruen decision and the PTC situation.

Are new people not allowed to sign up on the forum?

Are you a moderator here or in charge of membership?

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

36 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

So giving my opinion is drawing energy from what's really going on? Sure, if you and others want to call a different look at the situation as "complaining", feel free. I don't count my chickens before they're hatched, and history is usually a good teacher.  Call it what you wish. If my point of view upsets some people, that's an emotional issue they need to deal with.

Yes. The short version of pretty much everything you have posted on this subject can be summed up thus:

It has always been crap. It is currently crap. It will forever more be crap. There's no point fighting any of it because even our fighters are crap.

If you can't see how negative that is, perhaps you really are Eeyore.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

2 hours ago, BigGuns said:

Just like the other 250 people who signed up after the Bruen decision and the PTC situation.

Are new people not allowed to sign up on the forum?

Are you a moderator here or in charge of membership?

So you came here after a major SCOTUS victory that will be used as a keystone of all decisions moving forward... basically everything out of last session has been in our favor, but yeah keep complaining. 

It was a simple question you seemingly can't answer, btw. Everyone is welcome here, your opinions may not be. If you never log on again it's not like we would be missing anything, apparently. 

 

[Walkinguf61 40]

4 hours ago, BigGuns said:

Well, you're the only one so far that's realistic, and truly see what has gone on. Many others here feel THIS time we'll get an injunction, and we'll win. My point was, just look at history, and let that be your guide.

I'm not specifically pointing to this decision, I know it takes years to sort out. But I'm also not naive to think this is the end all, and all our rights will come flooding back because of it. I believe some here expect that to be the case.

The mag ban is the one I've mentioned multiple times. It should have been an easy one for us to win. But it's gone back through the courts two or three times, and still not overturned and upheld. And during the Bruen decision, the S.C. wouldn't even touch it, and kicked it back to the lower courts, and square one.

Hell, the 15 round law goes back to the 1990s, and was never overturned or repealed. That's a long time to fight and not get the desired results.

So, if we can't win the easy ones, like magazines and evil features, what's the prognosis for the hard ones?

No doubt, it's a David and Goliath situation, and the state has really deep pockets. But that said, In many areas of Life and Sports, is decided on Wins and Losses. And in that case, the batting record isn't great regarding gun owners in this state.

Yes, the donated money is important. I don't know, do we have the right team in for this game? What's their batting average?  What would a head coach do if his quarterback kept throwing interceptions or a pitcher was allowing 5 runs per inning? That might sound harsh, but it's reality.

So giving my opinion is drawing energy from what's really going on? Sure, if you and others want to call a different look at the situation as "complaining", feel free. I don't count my chickens before they're hatched, and history is usually a good teacher.  Call it what you wish. If my point of view upsets some people, that's an emotional issue they need to deal with.

Thank you for being honest, and not just defaulting to the accepted group think by some here. Yes, we all hope these overburdening laws go away, time will tell. I believe keeping your eyes wide open is the way forward.

Oh, come on. Now the Bruen decision hasn’t done anything now according to you. NY and NJ had carry permits for the general public due to Bruen. 
 

Now the anti-gun legislatures have hit back. In NY, they lost at the district level already . The appeals court put a hold on the judge’s decision until they hear it. I believe the first hearing for the temp injunction is in January for the NY case in the 2nd circuit. The NJ law even hasn’t been heard in court at the district level yet. The NJ law is less than two weeks old. 
 

I already showed how Chicago attempted to do the same thing after the McDonald decision and got slapped for it. 

This is just the start of the fight. It is a slow process. Go look up Brown v Board of Education and see how long it took to be implemented. It was 1954.

The following year, a similar case had to go before the court to explain as in how to enforce the first case.

And in 1959, a court order was placed against a school board who decided to close the schools rather than comply .

These things take tIme. 

[1LtCAP 4,263]

maybe it really will be killed quickly?

 

 

[DAHL 59]

The fight is on and some very committed 2A organizations have filed lawsuits on the cancel carry bill.  The NRA/ANJRPC, GOA and FPC are already in it. I would not compare the NJ fight for our rights to any other state. The third circuit court of appeals where it will end up for the short term is not a far left court. The 2nd circuit out of New York City is but what can people expect?  The best scenario would be if the supreme count stepped in early next year. We shall see where its goes but the Bruen decision is clearly on our side. .

[Indianajonze 379]

i'll say this: for the courts (SC specifically) to have any credibility in the face of these obvious middle fingers from NY and NJ, it would be in their best interest to shut them down as soon as possible. i don't think there will be many delays here

[Mike77 169]

https://youtu.be/9UXJOVn9VP0

[Moutinas 59]

Expedited hearing was scheduled on Monday which was a state and federal holiday. Preliminary injunction enjoining all this nonsense NJ has created. The federal judge is taking this seriously. State must file by Dec 30th for a January 5th zoom meeting. State is being asked to defend banning guns on private property, motor vehicles, library, restaurants, museums, bars, entertainment facilities. She must realize that all the sensitive places are a ban on carry and that is not allowed under Bruen. Merry Christmas to us.

 

[1LtCAP 4,263]

but she's gonna let the insurance training and interviewing references parts stand?

[RadioGunner 218]

6 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

but she's gonna let the insurance training and interviewing references parts stand?

The most immediate problem is the sensitive places, that causes immediate harm (for those of us that have carry permits). That's what the FPC case is challenging.

Those other requirements will be challenged in Siegel v Platkin, the ANJRPC case which seems to have a more drawn out timeline but is much more comprehensive. But actually the hearing is scheduled for the 9th for that case so it may not even be that far behind.

It's really just strategy. Attack the low hanging fruit first. Get relief for the most egregious restrictions (sensitive places) then work on the rest. 

The training and insurance don't even take effect until July anyway. 

 

 

[RadioGunner 218]

11 hours ago, Indianajonze said:

i'll say this: for the courts (SC specifically) to have any credibility in the face of these obvious middle fingers from NY and NJ, it would be in their best interest to shut them down as soon as possible. i don't think there will be many delays here

It seems like this will be moved very quickly. Remember when Obergefell was decided there were still holdouts like Kim Davis, and even though she tried her best, she was dealt with, and even served jail time and eventually lost her re-election. 

[b47356 21]

1 hour ago, RadioGunner said:

It seems like this will be moved very quickly. Remember when Obergefell was decided there were still holdouts like Kim Davis, and even though she tried her best, she was dealt with, and even served jail time and eventually lost her re-election. 

You are overlooking how quickly the left bows to the SC when it rules in a way the left approves of. Bruen is definitely not the same thing.

Heller said the same thing.. years ago.. How many "wins" have there been in the meantime? Not including the temp ones, which happened in the 9th circuit.

If you follow things like the Nichols (open carry) case in CA, you will see how courts will deal with Bruen - Throw the cases back to the beginning in district court, and make sure they have no progress for a couple more years.

[b47356 21]

On 12/25/2022 at 11:05 PM, Walkinguf61 said:

Then there was basic “ professional courtesy “. How many times has a cop or retired cop been arrested for mere gun possession? Not many .

Yeah, we all know how "professional courtesy" works. It means cops rarely get arrested or ticketed for anything.

I'm not sure that cheering about how cops and some ex-cops get to often ignore the law is a winning argument.

At least in NJ, where we all know how the major police organization feels about any new gun law that comes up.

"We got our exceptions, so we support this law"

[JackDaWack 2,895]

43 minutes ago, b47356 said:

You are overlooking how quickly the left bows to the SC when it rules in a way the left approves of. Bruen is definitely not the same thing.

Heller said the same thing.. years ago.. How many "wins" have there been in the meantime? Not including the temp ones, which happened in the 9th circuit.

If you follow things like the Nichols (open carry) case in CA, you will see how courts will deal with Bruen - Throw the cases back to the beginning in district court, and make sure they have no progress for a couple more years.

SC remands to the appeals court, appeals remands to district.. 

All these cases will be heard in their current sessions under Bruen, and can be overturned in the next year. 

The fact these cases were remanded is a win, when was the last time that happened? 

[Walkinguf61 40]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:06 AM, BigGuns said:

So pointing out current reality is now considered complaining?

I'm still waiting on that list of other laws that were overruled or overturned and we got our rights back. I would think getting the 10 round law overturned would have been an easy one (or going back to 30 rounds). Or removing restrictions on telescoping stocks, pinned/welded comps, bayonet mounts, foregrips, threaded barrels, flash hiders, etc. should have been easy, but they all still stand. Plus the overbearing FID process and the P2P process hasn't changed since signed into law.

So, if these overbearing, unconstitutional laws haven't been overturned, it doesn't make me hopeful that anything else that's been signed into law will either. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised, but history hasn't been friendly to us.

The NJ magazine limits challenges I don’t know about other than the 15 to 10 round law would be still making its way through the courts . No temporary injunctive relief would be granted on that one until the case was heard. That is less fundamental and one could still defend one’s self with a 10 round magazine, just not as well. It’s an argument of how much rather than IF you have a right at all. 
The 2nd circuit took NY ‘s seven round limit and set the bottom at ten rounds. However that was pre-Bruen. 

[Walkinguf61 40]

1 hour ago, b47356 said:

You are overlooking how quickly the left bows to the SC when it rules in a way the left approves of. Bruen is definitely not the same thing.

Heller said the same thing.. years ago.. How many "wins" have there been in the meantime? Not including the temp ones, which happened in the 9th circuit.

If you follow things like the Nichols (open carry) case in CA, you will see how courts will deal with Bruen - Throw the cases back to the beginning in district court, and make sure they have no progress for a couple more years.

Yep, but Judge Benitez is going to make the same ruling. It’s the game we are in. 
 

I already gave the example of Brown vs the board of education. How long did that take … but it happened. 

[Walkinguf61 40]

1 hour ago, b47356 said:

Yeah, we all know how "professional courtesy" works. It means cops rarely get arrested or ticketed for anything.

I'm not sure that cheering about how cops and some ex-cops get to often ignore the law is a winning argument.

At least in NJ, where we all know how the major police organization feels about any new gun law that comes up.

"We got our exceptions, so we support this law"

Yeah, and they did that out of fear. Their job is to protect their membership, period. No different than your lawyer is supposed to protect you. And they did get changes that help everyone. Unless you want the requirement that your holster has to have a retention strap— and that was a fight — go look at the hearings if you don’t believe me. 

[always_an_eagle 165]

If anyone is on Reddit, myself and the other moderators on r/NJguns are organzing a donation campaign to help raise funds for the lawsuits. Check it out and consider donating. https://www.reddit.com/r/NJGuns/comments/zvuol7/rnjguns_donation_campaign/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:40 AM, BigGuns said:

The mag ban is the one I've mentioned multiple times. It should have been an easy one for us to win. But it's gone back through the courts two or three times, and still not overturned and upheld. And during the Bruen decision, the S.C. wouldn't even touch it, and kicked it back to the lower courts, and square one.

That's a false statement.  The Supreme Court did "touch" it via a GVR.  Granted (Certiori), Vacated the previous court's judgement, and Remanded it to be re-tried under the standard set in Bruen.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

7 hours ago, RadioGunner said:

The most immediate problem is the sensitive places, that causes immediate harm (for those of us that have carry permits). That's what the FPC case is challenging.

Those other requirements will be challenged in Siegel v Platkin, the ANJRPC case which seems to have a more drawn out timeline but is much more comprehensive. But actually the hearing is scheduled for the 9th for that case so it may not even be that far behind.

It's really just strategy. Attack the low hanging fruit first. Get relief for the most egregious restrictions (sensitive places) then work on the rest. 

The training and insurance don't even take effect until July anyway. 

 

 

can't hang fruit much lower than requiring something that they made illegal though, can they?

[RadioGunner 218]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

can't hang fruit much lower than requiring something that they made illegal though, can they?

The insurance requirement isn't effect yet. It really doesn't burden anyone at this time.  It will burden people come July. We have plenty of time. The sensitive places restriction is more immediate.

[b47356 21]

7 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

SC remands to the appeals court, appeals remands to district.. 

All these cases will be heard in their current sessions under Bruen, and can be overturned in the next year. 

The fact these cases were remanded is a win, when was the last time that happened? 

The CA open carry case (NIchols) was fully briefed in the 9th circuit... 4 years ago..  now it is back in district court.. a case that was filed in 2011. I don't see the "justice delayed is justice denied" crowd protesting this one.

Being sent back to the district level is starting over, at least 2 years before anything final happens.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, b47356 said:

The CA open carry case (NIchols) was fully briefed in the 9th circuit... 4 years ago..  now it is back in district court.. a case that was filed in 2011. I don't see the "justice delayed is justice denied" crowd protesting this one.

Being sent back to the district level is starting over, at least 2 years before anything final happens.

Yet, the defendants entire original argument is no longer allowed.