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NJ LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DESTROY RIGHT TO CARRY

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11 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I don't have much of an issue with it either with one proviso - The LEO must not freak out and treat you as a threat just because you are legally armed. If anything, it should allow him/her to adopt a more relaxed posture as it is highly unlikely that a legal carrier is going to do anything dumb. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. It should definitely not be an excuse to disarm the person and run the gun's serial number on a fishing expedition for a collar.

I haven’t had any LEO interaction while being armed, but the local officers I know have told me that they do tend to look favorably on those who have a LTC.

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Any training requirement should include training for 911 dispatchers and every compensated responder.   911 dispatchers on how to identify a "karen" call vs. an active incident and cops that "citizens" are allowed to have guns on them.   an official "read and initial" type of form for each to sign and keep in their files that were trained and understand the constitution and laws.

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14 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Right! They broke the law by carrying a handgun without a permit. That was a crime. The add on charges were standard capacity magazines and hollow points. If they had not committed a crime, no large cap or hollow point charges would have ever happened!

FIFY.

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13 minutes ago, Mike77 said:

Curious of any LEOs opinions on the new bill, and wether they intend to enforce. 

We will never know and it will depend on the circumstances. A lot will pretend not to see something, while others will be forced to act because they can’t pretend not to have seen something due to body cams , a Karen pointing to it , etc. And some will tend to enforce it .  That’s why it’s important to get the law changed.  

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3 hours ago, Walkinguf61 said:

Technically a premises permit is a carry permit . And NYC often issues premises permits with a “ green “ card saying the person can carry the gun while hunting . 

The premises license is also green. They are all possession licenses and technically the premises and target/sport is a restriction.

1 hour ago, Walkinguf61 said:

We will never know and it will depend on the circumstances. A lot will pretend not to see something, while others will be forced to act because they can’t pretend not to have seen something due to body cams , a Karen pointing to it , etc. And some will tend to enforce it .  That’s why it’s important to get the law changed.  

And let's not forget that there are MANY who think that ONLY the police should have guns. Especially the higher ups.

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17 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

How many cases of someone being charged for stopping at a restaurant while on the way to a range.

Not the range, but there is a woman who was stopped and arrested with an unloaded gun in her trunk going from Pennsylvania to her second house in NJ. She stopped to text her girlfriend (i.e. obey the law) and the cop pulled up behind her, spotted a loose round in the car and then got arrested.

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For possession of a hollow point round in his car.

The woman above and also Brian Aitken.

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Possession of a 15 round mag where no other crime was committed, etc, etc.  You don't! Because it does not happen! But we live in fear of being the first! 

A member here got caught with a large capacity mag. The cops did nothing to him!

 

The problem is if you ever have to use it, it will go from being a clean, self defense shoot to a gun crime.

This guy had multiple issues: 

https://www.silive.com/crime-safety/2022/12/gun-nj-transit-driver-from-si-used-to-shoot-teen-had-extended-clip-authorities-allege-records-show-old-arrests-on-si.html

 

But the shoot itself was not the issue. 

 

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17 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

If you are carrying concealed with the proper handgun, holster and clothing, you won't print so Karen will never know you are armed!

Law enforcement has training to spot concealed guns. The NYPD's training is quite comprehensive. I've seen it. In the era of stop and frisk some were very skilled at spotting weapons. And some would stop and frisk you anyway even if all they had was a "hunch."

Personally I don't want to have to walk around worrying about whether the cops will see me if I reach for something on a shelf and my shirt lifts and exposes the gun. 

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23 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Are you talking about the new NJ safety course that has yet to be defined by the Superintendent of NJSP? The instructors and range also need to be approved by the Superintendent. How is it possible that Pine Tree Rifle Club has advance knowledge and approval before anyone else has heard a word from the Superintendent?

That's the NY requirement. The NY State police developed the standard after the passing of their carry killer bill.

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6 hours ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

Doesn't NY also have a "Premises Permit" ?

I believe that was only for NY city.. It's been 10 years since I received my NY permit and can't recall if premises was on the application.

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1 hour ago, RadioGunner said:

Law enforcement has training to spot concealed guns. The NYPD's training is quite comprehensive. I've seen it. In the era of stop and frisk some were very skilled at spotting weapons. And some would stop and frisk you anyway even if all they had was a "hunch."

Personally I don't want to have to walk around worrying about whether the cops will see me if I reach for something on a shelf and my shirt lifts and exposes the gun. 

People were shocked how I knew they had a gun or knife on them and where they had it without frisking them. It’s a perishable skill. 
But a few months ago, a retired cop friend of mine and I went out to dinner. He tapped me exactly where I was carrying a small 380. It’s a skill that we develop. But I have also missed things too. 

1 minute ago, brucin said:

I believe that was only for NY city.. It's been 10 years since I received my NY permit and can't recall if premises was on the application.

It was before the CCIA changes . I don’t know about now.

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17 minutes ago, samiam said:

Fear is the one and only effective weapon that an authoritarian government possesses. There is no way that such a government can apprehend and imprison, or murder, all those involved in large scale disobedience of authoritarian edicts. That is why civil disobedience was such a potent strategy in the civil rights movements of the 1960s. 

You would have to have mass disobedience for it to be effective. And we know at least a few, and I suspect more than a few cops will enforce. Probably to bump up their arrest numbers so they can cite it in promotions and performance reviews. 

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39 minutes ago, samiam said:

Are you claiming that an effective armed defense against tyranny can be conducted from withint the four walls of your home? I find that premise extremely dubious. And the argument is about "carry", period. "Concealed carry" vs. "carry" is a distinction created by our wonderful government. 

No. Open and concealed carry have been seen as historically different. Open carry was seen as fair warning in some places where concealed carry was seen as dubious. 

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5 hours ago, revenger said:

Any training requirement should include training for 911 dispatchers and every compensated responder.   911 dispatchers on how to identify a "karen" call vs. an active incident and cops that "citizens" are allowed to have guns on them.   an official "read and initial" type of form for each to sign and keep in their files that were trained and understand the constitution and laws.

And who makes the news? The person who treats the Karen call as real or the 911 operator who treats a Karen call as such and turns out to be wrong ? 

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17 minutes ago, Mike77 said:

Isnt there a Jan 3 hearing somewhere today? 

I think today is the due date for NY to explain to Sotomayor why the 2nd Circuit's stay on the TRO should stand. I'm not sure if there is a hearing for that.

I think the plaintiff's response to the NJ AG's brief from Friday for the SAF/FPC/CNJFO/NJ2AS TRO request is also due today.

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44 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I think today is the due date for NY to explain to Sotomayor why the 2nd Circuit's stay on the TRO should stand. I'm not sure if there is a hearing for that.

I think the plaintiff's response to the NJ AG's brief from Friday for the SAF/FPC/CNJFO/NJ2AS TRO request is also due today.

NJ submitted their response on 12/30.  The hearing for Injunction is scheduled for Jan 5th.

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