NJ LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DESTROY RIGHT TO CARRY

[CMJeepster 2,777]

42 minutes ago, DAHL said:

Just a guess but I would say that the decision on a preliminary injunction to the cancel carry bill will be issued this week or possibly  a week later.  The court may not be able to drag the decision out much longer as "Dickhead" (our governor) is gathering his minions for the appeal to the 3 rd circuit court to uphold this unconstitutional law if they lose. In the end if this gets all the way to the Supreme Court the state will lose. Many of us have been carrying every day for the past 7 months and Dickhead should understand that there has not been a single problem from the 75,000 or so permit holders.

FIFY

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

Transcript from the 03/17/23 hearing is available - read Jensen's words for yourself:

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.anjrpc.org/resource/resmgr/legal_motions___briefs/carry_suit_docs/2023-03-17-rmb-koons_v_reyno.pdf

[Scorpio64 5,147]

 

Quote

 

JENSEN: Here we need to use inductive reasoning.

 

 

No, we dont. 

 

Inductive reasoning is working backwards using unproven generalizations to whittle down to a possible truth or fact of a matter.  While it is a legit strategy for R&D, blue sky research and all that shit, it is not a guarantee that a specific result can be produced or found logically sound.

 

The state's evidence is all based on inference, nothing factual.    It's the same bad logic as saying someone is guilty by association.  Don Corleone is Sicilian.  Don Corleone is the head of the Sicilian Mafia.  All Sicilians must be mafia.

 

When the laws cited by Jensen were written in the olde daes, towns and cities had few publicly funded buildings or institutions.  When the state says ALL government buildings were sensitive places back then, it is true, but not proof that all contemporary buildings and properties  are included. One has to keep in mind that most cities and towns only had one, maybe two government buildings.  A jail, a courthouse and a sheriffs office, which were usually the same place. 

 

What the state wants the court to believe is that the law infers the inclusion of all government owned and funded buildings and properties.  The flaw in the state's argument is that no government business is conducted at a state park, or a daycare, or other generalized location just because the government owns or funds it.  The so called inductive reasoning posited by Jensen asks the court to ignore facts and law and assume that every pie the government has it's finger in is a sensitive place.

[Fawkesguy 57]

Yep, he’s an idiot.

[Scorpio64 5,147]

Who the hell is Jensen arguing for? 

[kirk2022 43]

Inductive Reasoning---------- In other words the heat is on from the opposing side.   

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

Edited to include Koons/Jensen's filing:

All of the "final" Pro/Anti PI briefs that were due today are out:

NJ state AG:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.120.0.pdf

NJ intervenors (Scutari/Coughlin's Lawyers):

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.121.0.pdf

Siegel Plaintiffs/Daniel Schmutter:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.122.0.pdf

Koons Plaintiffs/David Jensen:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.123.0.pdf

[TuscanRaider 8]

12 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Edited to include Koons/Jensen's filing:

All of the "final" Pro/Anti PI briefs that were due today are out:

NJ state AG:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.120.0.pdf

NJ intervenors (Scutari/Coughlin's Lawyers):

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.121.0.pdf

Siegel Plaintiffs/Daniel Schmutter:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.122.0.pdf

Koons Plaintiffs/David Jensen:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.123.0.pdf

Maybe someone can summarize these and put them in a format that the average person can understand.  I'd also be interested to see if someone with some legal background can grade them as to how well they were written and presented.  I'm sure for a judge they are easy to decipher but it'll probably be another week before she rules.

[ShootersShooter 120]

The only meaningful source to "Grade" these submissions is the judge. Her decision alone counts and will keep the current terms of the TRO, rescind the TRO, or expand the TRO and grant the preliminary injunction which will stand until the case is heard in court. Keep aware of the updates by joining ANJRPC and help fund the litigation.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Meanwhile, in North Carolina...

Permit requirement to buy pistol scrapped in North Carolina (yahoo.com)

[10X 3,296]

How many carry permit applications has the state received?  NJ won't say.  

The Judiciary said they received 11, 298 applications while the courts were still part of the approval process, the State Police another 5,730, which may have overlap with the court's figures, but the AG claims they simply don't know and have no way to track how many total applications have come in.  

The article notes that in general, NJ won't reveal numbers about guns, crimes, and police disciplinary actions in the state.  NJ hasn't issued a Uniform Crime Report since 2020.

We don't know how many permit requests have come in, says AG in charge of knowing such things.

 

 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

they know. they don't wanna say

 

[siderman 1,137]

1 hour ago, 10X said:

How many carry permit applications has the state received?  NJ won't say.  

The Judiciary said they received 11, 298 applications while the courts were still part of the approval process, the State Police another 5,730, which may have overlap with the court's figures, but the AG claims they simply don't know and have no way to track how many total applications have come in.  

The article notes that in general, NJ won't reveal numbers about guns, crimes, and police disciplinary actions in the state.  NJ hasn't issued a Uniform Crime Report since 2020.

We don't know how many permit requests have come in, says AG in charge of knowing such things.

 

 

What a crock. The AG can simply issue a memorandum to the county admins who in turn reach out to the towns/barracks for the numbers. If Mom's Demand Action asked for that info to publish how many potential killers the Supreme Court put on the street somehow those numbers would appear.

[TuscanRaider 8]

15 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

they know. they don't wanna say

 

They don't want to say how  many apps were submitted or approved, because thousands of people have been carrying for months and there have been zero issues.  Each day that goes by without incident makes them look worse.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

22 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

they know. they don't wanna say

 

This.

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

How many people in NJ with a LTC have committed crimes? 
 

Let me guess……zero. 
 

The state knows that, but it didn’t make the case for them, so they won’t make that public. 

[mustang69 505]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:43 AM, siderman said:

What a crock. The AG can simply issue a memorandum to the county admins who in turn reach out to the towns/barracks for the numbers. If Mom's Demand Action asked for that info to publish how many potential killers the Supreme Court put on the street somehow those numbers would appear.

If the numbers supported their narrative you can bet they'd be published weekly...

[bennj 215]

  ^ this^

My permit shows what number it is, I presume for Mercer County. Any first year statistician could put those numbers together in a few days tops. They are so blatantly deceptive. In any event, hoping all who observe, have a blessed Easter.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1 hour ago, bennj said:

  ^ this^

. They are so blatantly deceptive.

and to be honest, the way it's sounding like the judge is trying to hold their feet to the fire, i'm surprised that they're letting these schmucks get away with that.

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

Not immediately relevant to NJ, but something to keep an eye on:

Hawaii "outsources" defense of its AWB/magazine capacity  law to a lawyer from "Everytown Law":

https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/i/status/1645280706019594241
 

Quote

As we've said throughout the legislative session, Hawiis Attorney General will not be able to defend its sensitive places bill.

It turns out that may have always been the plan.

Last week the AG filed a motion to appear pro hac vice. Basically this is a request to allow a lawyer from outside the District (Hawaii) to come and assist with a case.

The lawsuit in question is NAGA Vs Lopez, which is a challenge to the Hawaii assault pistol and magazine capacity ban.

The Motion is to allow a New York-based lawyer to come in and "help" the AG fight the lawsuit.

Looking at the motion is very telling as to what might become the norm for Hawaii. The lawyer they are bringing in works for none other than............ Every Town.

If you don't know, Every Town (for Gun Safety) is an anti-gun organization backed by billionaire Mike Bloomberg and the parent organization of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America.

So based on this, its highly likely that we will see the AG bring in other lawyers to assist with future challenges to Hawaii's sensitive places ban. So when the AGs office told legislators, they were prepared to defend this law. What they probably meant is they are prepared to let a billionaire-backed anti-gun organization based in New York defend it for us.

https://everytownlaw.org/

Quote

Everytown Law is the largest team of litigators in the country dedicated to advancing gun safety in the courts and through the civil and criminal justice systems.

 

[10X 3,296]

45 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

Not immediately relevant to NJ, but something to keep an eye on:

Hawaii "outsources" defense of its AWB/magazine capacity  law to a lawyer from "Everytown Law":

So maybe the pro-2A states should outsource their efforts to overturn such bans to corporate counsel for Colt.

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

2 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Hawaii "outsources" defense of its AWB/magazine capacity  law to a lawyer from "Everytown Law":

That's even a step beyond those NJ Legislators who hired their own outside council to present to Judge Bumb. This whole is getting not only more complicated, but clearly it's getting more politicized by the moment. That's NEVER good IMO.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

2 hours ago, 10X said:

So maybe the pro-2A states should outsource their efforts to overturn such bans to corporate counsel for Colt.

that is actually a very good idea.

[doublepar 6]

3 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Not immediately relevant to NJ, but something to keep an eye on:

Hawaii "outsources" defense of its AWB/magazine capacity  law to a lawyer from "Everytown Law":

https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/i/status/1645280706019594241
 

https://everytownlaw.org/

 

Isn't it a scheme to fund anti-gun organizations with taxpayer money?

[Wcordes 5]

That way it’s not the AGs fault for losing the case.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

got mine yesterday. they called me day before yesterday. overall, while annoying, and technically/constitutionally illegal, the process wasn't that rough i guess. it took them a month and a half from when i got my prints done. all of those i dealt with at my pd were decent helpful and friendly. 'cept one lady that i could see the scowl on her face because she's anti-gun....but she wasn't dealing with me.

 

 side note.......the cop that came to my house in november when i called 911 for mom was there. when i mentioned to him i remembered him and of that day, he seemed to remember the call, and asked me how she's doing. really cool guy.

 

 now finally.......we're ok carrying into stores and whatnot for now, correct? just the normal no govt buildings ?

 

[Cheflife15 455]

34 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

got mine yesterday. they called me day before yesterday. overall, while annoying, and technically/constitutionally illegal, the process wasn't that rough i guess. it took them a month and a half from when i got my prints done. all of those i dealt with at my pd were decent helpful and friendly. 'cept one lady that i could see the scowl on her face because she's anti-gun....but she wasn't dealing with me.

 

 side note.......the cop that came to my house in november when i called 911 for mom was there. when i mentioned to him i remembered him and of that day, he seemed to remember the call, and asked me how she's doing. really cool guy.

 

 now finally.......we're ok carrying into stores and whatnot for now, correct? just the normal no govt buildings ?

 

Welcome to the club!

Just check the door when you go in stores. It has to be clearly marked no firearms.

 

https://gunforhire.com/nj-ccw-permit/

If you scroll down it has a solid break down of where is good and where you shouldn't carry 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

here's another question.........does it carry the weight of law if one were to accidentally not see the sign? say if it were small'ish?

[kirk2022 43]

32 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

here's another question.........does it carry the weight of law if one were to accidentally not see the sign? say if it were small'ish?

In NJ sure it carries the weight of law.  If a business posts a no gun's sign, it means they are anti-gun.  Take your business elsewhere is the best I can say.    I have been many places and the only sign I have seen pertaining to carry is at Walmart's.    They are written in yellow letters, "Walmart requests that customers do not openly carry" whoever chooses to ignore that can be the test dummy for all the laws in NJ.

Do yourself a favor and start reading other States laws also. It will show you that a lot of the laws people will say are against carrying in NJ, actually exist in States that have allowed carry for a long time.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

3 hours ago, kirk2022 said:

In NJ sure it carries the weight of law.  If a business posts a no gun's sign, it means they are anti-gun.  Take your business elsewhere is the best I can say.    I have been many places and the only sign I have seen pertaining to carry is at Walmart's.    They are written in yellow letters, "Walmart requests that customers do not openly carry" whoever chooses to ignore that can be the test dummy for all the laws in NJ.

Do yourself a favor and start reading other States laws also. It will show you that a lot of the laws people will say are against carrying in NJ, actually exist in States that have allowed carry for a long time.

i've seen the walmart sign. i think i posted a picture of it somewhere......