JackDaWack 2,895 Posted May 17, 2023 13 hours ago, b47356 said: I don't know why this keeps getting thrown out like it means something. Alito isn't going to show up in Philly and say "We really meant it when Bruen was written" and "poof", like magic, all the same courts that ignored Heller for years are going to say "My bad" and start following SCOTUS. When the 3rd slow walks things like the 2nd did (after removing the TRO), the same thing will happen - SCOTUS will write a sternly worded letter, and things will move at a slightly faster glacial pace. I don't know about the rest of you think, but didn't that mention by SCOTUS really speed things up in the 3rd? 2 months since oral argument, is there an over-under on how long they sit on ruling it? And during this wait, _nothing_ is going on in district court for these cases. Do you know how circuit assignments work? He is responsible for ANY "emergency" based appeals, which this will ultimately fall under. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted May 17, 2023 It isn't at Alito's door yet. It isn't even at the 3rd Circuit, quite. NJ filed a notice to appeal - that's like saying "I'm going to file an appeal". It is not actually an appeal. When they do file it, it will go to the 3rd Circuit. If we're lucky it will go to someone like Judge Hardiman or Judge Bibas. They have a record of supporting 2A in their dissentions in prior cases. If the 3rd upholds the PI, then NJ has the option to make an emergency appeal to SCOTUS. That is when Alito gets to decide on his own, or to consult the rest of SCOTUS. If the 3rd Circuit Judge rules to stay the PI, our side has the option to make the emergency appeal to SCOTUS. When it gets to Alito, he has the same options as if NJ had filed the emergency appeal. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted May 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said: Although I get your (understandably!) cynical point of view... it's also hard to ignore that there's one very serious difference between "then" and "now". Even if ALL these various cases move glacially, as you say, through the courts - as so many NJ gun cases have done in the past - in the meantime, law-abiding NJ citizens are at least carrying concealed. Frankly?... I never thought I'd see that day. Did you? I think this latest chapter - this decision by Judge Bumb - is yet another "win" no matter how you slice it. And the fact that this judge took so much time and turned out such a lengthy and carefully annotated product... makes me think that she KNEW damn well this case would be immediately appealed, and that it would be closely watched by other courts around the country, and she was making sure to dot the i's and cross the t's on this initial decision... so that it would withstand any future appeal process. I think she's going to be JUST as careful when the full case is heard and decided. And yes, the fact that Alito is over that next level court... if these combined cases ever get to that point, well, from my (albeit limited) understanding, it certainly doesn't hurt us! For years, pro-2A NJ citizens had NOTHING but bad legislation and even worse legal decisions to despair over. But the fact is... the Bruin case DID change things. It gave much-needed "teeth" to the pro-2A side... in the form of clear, compelling guidance on what courts need to do to decide 2A cases... and now we're seeing a series of wins as a direct result. You know, it's ok to crack a smile... perhaps even lift a celebratory glass... at each step we win. One can go through posts a year ago and find many saying we'll never be able to carry in NJ. 2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted May 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said: It isn't at Alito's door yet. It isn't even at the 3rd Circuit, quite. NJ filed a notice to appeal - that's like saying "I'm going to file an appeal". It is not actually an appeal. When they do file it, it will go to the 3rd Circuit. If we're lucky it will go to someone like Judge Hardiman or Judge Bibas. They have a record of supporting 2A in their dissentions in prior cases. If the 3rd upholds the PI, then NJ has the option to make an emergency appeal to SCOTUS. That is when Alito gets to decide on his own, or to consult the rest of SCOTUS. If the 3rd Circuit Judge rules to stay the PI, our side has the option to make the emergency appeal to SCOTUS. When it gets to Alito, he has the same options as if NJ had filed the emergency appeal. I think the primary point to consider is that if the 3rd Circuit decides to overturn Bumb, Alito could fast track an appeal to the "shadow court" and have that overturned within a few short months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FairbanksRusty 64 Posted May 17, 2023 I still find the cost to get oneself vetted and licensed for a PTC exorbitant, and puzzled by the fact it took a collective group of people and attorney’s to get the right Supreme Court to listen after more than a century. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,157 Posted May 17, 2023 If you've got an hour to spare... here's the far more detailed breakdown of this decision (the follow-up video to the shorter Four Boxes Diner video posted about 8 msgs upthread by @Krdshrk): BREAKING 2A WIN: FULL (GEEK) ANALYSIS OF JUDGE BUMB'S SPANKING OF NEW JERSEY IN CONCEAL CARRY CASE - YouTube So far, of all the YouTube channels on 2A issues, this guy is my favorite for legal analysis. He's very thorough - seems to have a great grasp of the issues. Look up his bio - pretty impressive! 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walkinguf61 40 Posted May 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: It isn't at Alito's door yet. It isn't even at the 3rd Circuit, quite. NJ filed a notice to appeal - that's like saying "I'm going to file an appeal". It is not actually an appeal. When they do file it, it will go to the 3rd Circuit. If we're lucky it will go to someone like Judge Hardiman or Judge Bibas. They have a record of supporting 2A in their dissentions in prior cases. If the 3rd upholds the PI, then NJ has the option to make an emergency appeal to SCOTUS. That is when Alito gets to decide on his own, or to consult the rest of SCOTUS. If the 3rd Circuit Judge rules to stay the PI, our side has the option to make the emergency appeal to SCOTUS. When it gets to Alito, he has the same options as if NJ had filed the emergency appeal. That’s the beauty of having him as opposed to Sotomeyer. The 3rd circuit knows he might grant that emergency appeal . And if the 3rd rules wrong, it could be fast tracked for consideration as opposed to what happened in the 2nd circuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said: If you've got an hour to spare... here's the far more detailed breakdown of this decision (the follow-up video to the shorter Four Boxes Diner video posted about 8 msgs upthread by @Krdshrk): BREAKING 2A WIN: FULL (GEEK) ANALYSIS OF JUDGE BUMB'S SPANKING OF NEW JERSEY IN CONCEAL CARRY CASE - YouTube So far, of all the YouTube channels on 2A issues, this guy is my favorite for legal analysis. He's very thorough - seems to have a great grasp of the issues. Look up his bio - pretty impressive! Protip - watch it at 1.5x speed. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted May 17, 2023 6 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said: ....... And yes, the fact that Alito is over that next level court... While nobody was looking, Biden purged the third circuit, forcing out many Trump appointees. At least two senior judges were forced out, and the openings filled with Clinton/Obama(soros) attorneys. The junior vacancies were back filled with radical leftists. For example, Scott Brady was forced to resign in retaliation for being part of Trump's team of investigators looking into Biden and his son's corrupt dealings with Burisma in Ukraine. Brady's assistant atty is acting in his stead, just until Biden appoints someone to the position. The left has been working hard to stack the circuit courts too, With the judicial branch being more politicized than ever, we are fucked. If you were a Jew in 1938 Germany, you couldn't very well go to a German court for justice. The same methods for marginalization and persecution is happening here, just more slowly and mostly under the radar. This is what happens when people don't want to see how the sausage is made. Just bcuz Alito oversees the 3rd, it does not mean he has control or authority over all that goes on. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b47356 21 Posted May 17, 2023 8 hours ago, JackDaWack said: Do you know how circuit assignments work? He is responsible for ANY "emergency" based appeals, which this will ultimately fall under. It still takes a vote of the court to actually hear the case. And the odds of them hearing anything before final judgement is low, see Antonyuk (and other 2nd circuit cases) in january: Application (22A557) to vacate stay presented to Justice Sotomayor and by her referred to the Court is denied. Statement of Justice Alito, with whom Justice Thomas joins, respecting the denial of the application to vacate stay Well, at least the statement got the 2nd moving less slowly. Sorta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FairbanksRusty 64 Posted May 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: While nobody was looking, Biden purged the third circuit, forcing out many Trump appointees. At least two senior judges were forced out, and the openings filled with Clinton/Obama(soros) attorneys. The junior vacancies were back filled with radical leftists. For example, Scott Brady was forced to resign in retaliation for being part of Trump's team of investigators looking into Biden and his son's corrupt dealings with Burisma in Ukraine. Brady's assistant atty is acting in his stead, just until Biden appoints someone to the position. The left has been working hard to stack the circuit courts too, With the judicial branch being more politicized than ever, we are fucked. If you were a Jew in 1938 Germany, you couldn't very well go to a German court for justice. The same methods for marginalization and persecution is happening here, just more slowly and mostly under the radar. This is what happens when people don't want to see how the sausage is made. Just bcuz Alito oversees the 3rd, it does not mean he has control or authority over all that goes on. Someone else is making those decisions for the Commander in Sleep. Joe doesn’t have an earthly clue. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b47356 21 Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/17/2023 at 5:09 PM, Scorpio64 said: For example, Scott Brady was forced to resign in retaliation for being part of Trump's team of investigators looking into Biden and his son's corrupt dealings with Burisma in Ukraine. Brady's assistant atty is acting in his stead, just until Biden appoints someone to the position. Scott Brady was US Attorney for western PA, not a judge of the 3rd circuit. US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president. It is normal for some to all of them to be fired when a new admin takes office. (Pretty bad example too, since the guy has said he would never serve as a US Attorney under a democrat admin) On 5/17/2023 at 5:09 PM, Scorpio64 said: At least two senior judges were forced out, and the openings filled with Clinton/Obama(soros) attorneys. Senior judges are all judges with at least 10 years experience on that bench, and.. well.. they can't be "forced out" they can't even be forced to take senior status. An article III judge has no retirement age... I get that "conspiracy theory" has had a bad habit of becoming "verified truth" lately, but could we please avoid uncritically posting things that make no sense? The only way to remove an article III judge is impeachment. Think it might of been mentioned in the news if that was the case? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b47356 21 Posted May 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: ....... I was kinda hoping to read about all these impeachment proceedings. The thought of a republican house bringing impeachment charges against a judge for the crime of being appointed by a republican, to be judged by a (nominally) democrat senate is just so crazy I want to hear how the rest of the story goes. Or at least name all these judges that have been "removed". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,811 Posted May 22, 2023 ANJRPC has released an analysis of the Bumb PI: https://www.anjrpc.org/page/LegalAnalysisOfRecentCarryDecision Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,777 Posted May 22, 2023 @Gun for Hire had their episode yesterday with Dan: The Gun For Hire Radio Broadcast: Episode 626 - Best Gun Range NYC and NJ Area | Gun Range Near Me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TuscanRaider 8 Posted May 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said: ANJRPC has released an analysis of the Bumb PI: https://www.anjrpc.org/page/LegalAnalysisOfRecentCarryDecision Thx...much easier to digest that summary. What I also haven't seen anywhere is if, come July, do we need to disclose carrying to police at a traffic stop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted May 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, TuscanRaider said: Thx...much easier to digest that summary. What I also haven't seen anywhere is if, come July, do we need to disclose carrying to police at a traffic stop. Yes you do. That was not challenged in the law suits. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,811 Posted May 22, 2023 NJ (D) legislators will never admit they were wrong: https://newjerseyglobe.com/gun-control/after-adverse-ruling-scutari-says-he-still-believes-concealed-carry-law-is-solid-and-constitutional/ Quote “We’re going to let the litigation process move forward,” Scutari said after a Senate voting session. “We took the steps we needed to take. I believe the bill is solid and constitutional, and we’re hoping that as it works through the litigation process, they’ll see it our way.” Asked what steps the legislature might take if the law is ultimately deemed unconstitutional, Scutari said that would depend on the nature of the ruling itself. “If it’s struck down, we’ll start over,” he said. “Which might involve looking at the ruling and seeing what other steps we can do that fit within that ruling while still safeguarding New Jerseyans from lots and lots of additional guns legally carried on the street.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b47356 21 Posted May 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said: "New Jerseyans from lots and lots of additional guns legally carried on the street.” I guess it is just the legal ones that are the problem. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,811 Posted May 23, 2023 NJ filed its appeal to the 3rd circuit last night in attempt to reverse the Preliminary Injunction: Emergency Motion for Stay Pending Appeal: https://assets.nationbuilder.com/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/6681/attachments/original/1684805839/Koons_v_Platkin_Motion_for_Stay_Pending_Appeal.pdf?1684805839 Uncontested Motion to Expedite Appeal: https://assets.nationbuilder.com/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/6681/attachments/original/1684803483/Koons_v_Platkin_Motion_to_Expedite.pdf?1684803483 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted May 23, 2023 so they're calling all of us criminals. and they're trying the "well they did it, so you should too" argument....... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,777 Posted May 23, 2023 16 hours ago, DirtyDigz said: NJ (D) legislators will never admit they were wrong: https://newjerseyglobe.com/gun-control/after-adverse-ruling-scutari-says-he-still-believes-concealed-carry-law-is-solid-and-constitutional/ They're going to let? They don't have a choice!!! It's not in their scope to "let" the courts do anything!!! Does anyone in the state house know how our government works? JFC... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g17owner 137 Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said: so they're calling all of us criminals. and they're trying the "well they did it, so you should too" argument....... As they have been since day one. Part of the fees go to "Crime Victims Compensation Fund". That's misleading to the sheeple that aren't as involved as we are and its also an intentional slap in the face to those in favor our 2nd Amendment right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted May 23, 2023 The thing that bothers me most about this litigation is that no-one is challenging the notion that vetted, law-abiding, permit holders are a danger to other members of the public. We are not. We carry for self defense against attacks from lawless, violent people. Some of us are also prepared to defend others from such people. Lawless, violent people are neither inclined or allowed to obtain permits. Yes, there are particularly vulnerable people who sometimes congregate in specific locations, but almost all also venture elsewhere. Why should they be deprived of protecting themselves, or being protected by others that are vetted, law-abiding permit holders just because they are in a group at a given location? NJ says there are dozens of "sensitive locations". If all these places are so sensitive, why does the State not deploy the same level of security as they do for their own legislative chambers and court houses? Clearly most of these places are not really that sensitive. This should be the test for whether a given place is really "sensitive". Is there historical precedent that the State found that it was necessary to deploy security measures to each one? One bug bear for me is the schools prohibition. I drop and pick up my kid at school daily due to the bus run going past their mother's house, not mine. There are cops guarding the school building and controlling entry to the building. There is no security for the grounds, driveway and parking areas. This is similar to the curtilage Judge Bumb called out around residential property. Why are we not allowed to carry during drop-off and pick-up? Even the Federal Gun Free Schools Act exempts carry permit holders. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,777 Posted May 23, 2023 "They" don't want you to own guns let alone carry them. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,811 Posted May 23, 2023 3rd circuit has requested responses to NJ's emergency request for a stay: Somewhat encouraging. In the 7th circuit, they issued a stay of the PI in Illinois' AWB immediately without asking for responses. Looks like we get to continue carrying until at least 05/30... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tunaman 548 Posted May 23, 2023 These assholes will never get the fact that THEY work for US. The "government" as they call themselves doesn't own shit. It ALL belongs to US...not them. Trying to pass unconstitutional laws got people tarred and feathered in the not so distant past. They should be careful . I know Judge Bumb has read their appeal and noted how many times she "erred" in her decisions. I am sure that is sitting real well with her right now. Almost all of these district courts are ruling in favor of 2A rights but we are to believe that the STATE has the authority to overrule the district and Supreme courts? Good luck with that. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 24, 2023 4 hours ago, DirtyDigz said: Yep - that's ANJRPC's graphic. Also updated the pinned post on this: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites