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NJ LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DESTROY RIGHT TO CARRY

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18 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i hope/pray much quicker than that........

I think it will be. A injunction ( temporary or permanent) should come down pretty quickly just like in NY. The question is will the appeals court allow the injunction to remain in effect during the appeal . Two years before it hits SCOTUS as a main case rather than a preliminary injunction stage on the high end. 

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As  of today, The NRA/ ANJRPC, GOA, and FPC all have issued lawsuits challenging the unconstitutionality of the cancel carry bill. Something is being done to restore of rights and I expect court decision will be forthcoming in the next few weeks. If you have not supported any or all of  these organizations, I suggest that you do so. I have contributed to all.

As for the NJ Second Amendment society; they seem to have faded from the picture. While well meaning it was largely a one or two man show and it looks like they have given up the fight perhaps for a shortage of resources..

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20 hours ago, BigGuns said:

How many other lawsuits were filed for all the other unconstitutional laws that were passed? Where are they in the foodchain?

Do you support any 2a organizations in NJ? 

ANJRPC has been filing petitions everytime a new law is passed. 

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7 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

What's been the results? Which laws were overturned?

Donate and support the ANJRPC and you will get updates... 

A few cases just recently fell under the Bruen decision regardless of NJs recent walk around. 

A few cases were remanded back down. 

All great news. 

First time in Decades shit starts going our way and we're gonna bitch and moan not enough is being done?

Fact is, they've been fighting every new law that is legislated...not sure what your getting at, you lose 100% of the fights you don't stand up to. At least they ARE fighting every step of the way... and it's paying off whether you think it's enough or not. 

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34 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Donate and support the ANJRPC and you will get updates... 

I do, and I get the updates. But knowing that pieces of paper were sent to court houses and Trenton doesn't personally excite me. That's been going on for decades.

35 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

First time in Decades shit starts going our way and we're gonna bitch and moan not enough is being done?

Fact is, they've been fighting every new law that is legislated...not sure what your getting at, you lose 100% of the fights you don't stand up to.

What shit has gone our way? Some people got to carry for a few months, after jumping through major hoops, only to get smacked back down? Yes, the 2A organizations have been fighting every new law, and putting a lot of effort into it.

Gun owners are in worse shape today in this state, then any other time, after the Bruen decision.

So, I'll ask you again, what's been the final result? Did we get 30 round mags back, did all the restrictions on ARs get reversed? Can we carry hollow point ammo? In my world, final actions and results are what matters, not talk, but apparently I'm a minority in that area.

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16 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

I do, and I get the updates. But knowing that pieces of paper were sent to court houses and Trenton doesn't personally excite me. That's been going on for decades.

What shit has gone our way? Some people got to carry for a few months, after jumping through major hoops, only to get smacked back down? Yes, the 2A organizations have been fighting every new law, and putting a lot of effort into it.

Gun owners are in worse shape today in this state, then any other time, after the Bruen decision.

So, I'll ask you again, what's been the final result? Did we get 30 round mags back, did all the restrictions on ARs get reversed? Can we carry hollow point ammo? In my world, final actions and results are what matters, not talk, but apparently I'm a minority in that area.

What exactly brought you to the forums post Bruen? Surely not some defeatist ideology. 

There is no such thing as a "Final Result"... it would seem the issues you specifically just mentioned are all current cases in the higj courts 9f NJ MD and NY. None of which are going well for the States legislatures.

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1 hour ago, BigGuns said:

I do, and I get the updates. But knowing that pieces of paper were sent to court houses and Trenton doesn't personally excite me. That's been going on for decades.

What shit has gone our way? Some people got to carry for a few months, after jumping through major hoops, only to get smacked back down? Yes, the 2A organizations have been fighting every new law, and putting a lot of effort into it.

Gun owners are in worse shape today in this state, then any other time, after the Bruen decision.

So, I'll ask you again, what's been the final result? Did we get 30 round mags back, did all the restrictions on ARs get reversed? Can we carry hollow point ammo? In my world, final actions and results are what matters, not talk, but apparently I'm a minority in that area.

You’re bitching before the first court case on this has even been heard. NY has won its court cases. It’s just that they appealed and it’s on hold until the appeals court makes a decision. 
Just the fact you can now even realistically apply for carry permit and get if without being part of a certain profession was a big win. A big win that was years in the making after the Heller decision. The new NJ law has only been around for less than a week . Give it some time .

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26 minutes ago, Walkinguf61 said:

Give it some time .

4 years or so? That would be how long the mag ban has been rolling around. After Bruen, the 3rd circuit dumped it back down to the district court, so it has essentially started over.

Your tax dollars at work.

Hopefully in another 4 years we will know how it turns out.

I guess we are doing better then the california open carry case, which was argued in front of the 9th circuit in 2018 (originally filed in 2011), which they never ruled on. Of course, that has also been kicked back to district court due to Bruen.

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Unfortunately, it’s a game. But it’s a game that has to be played. 
As I’ve said before, it takes time, and it takes money. It also takes people willing to fight the battles. 
 

If you don’t fight it, they win. It’s as simple as that. 

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So, none of you can tell me which unconstitutional gun laws passed,  have been overturned or reversed in the past decade or two in NJ. I've seen more layered on instead of being removed.

Apparently, it's easier to launch personal attacks, instead of providing the information I requested.

3 minutes ago, b47356 said:

4 years or so? That would be how long the mag ban has been rolling around. After Bruen, the 3rd circuit dumped it back down to the district court, so it has essentially started over.

Your tax dollars at work.

Hopefully in another 4 years we will know how it turns out.

I guess we are doing better then the california open carry case, which was argued in front of the 9th circuit in 2018 (originally filed in 2011), which they never ruled on. Of course, that has also been kicked back to district court due to Bruen.

Please stop with that logic and facts. Some don't like the current reality.

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7 minutes ago, b47356 said:

4 years or so? That would be how long the mag ban has been rolling around. After Bruen, the 3rd circuit dumped it back down to the district court, so it has essentially started over.

Your tax dollars at work.

Hopefully in another 4 years we will know how it turns out.

I guess we are doing better then the california open carry case, which was argued in front of the 9th circuit in 2018 (originally filed in 2011), which they never ruled on. Of course, that has also been kicked back to district court due to Bruen.

These cases won’t take that long. Injunctive relief even in the form of a temporary one until the case is heard will come. Bruen has made the case law. SCOTUS has ruled. Now the courts just have to enforce it despite lower courts attempting to work around it. The current NJ and NY carry laws are more fundamental than a magazine limit . 

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10 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

So, none of you can tell me which unconstitutional gun laws passed,  have been overturned or reversed in the past decade or two in NJ. I've seen more layered on instead of being removed.

Apparently, it's easier to launch personal attacks, instead of providing the information I requested.

Please stop with that logic and facts. Some don't like the current reality.

Example in NJ, huh? I don’t know if this falls under your definition of unconstitutional but:
Okay. How about the LEOSA victory in NJ. Retired NJ officers in the past could not carry hollowpoints but I , as an out of state retired officer could . That was overturned. 

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19 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

So, none of you can tell me which unconstitutional gun laws passed,  have been overturned or reversed in the past decade or two in NJ. I've seen more layered on instead of being removed.

Apparently, it's easier to launch personal attacks, instead of providing the information I requested.

As has been pointed out to you ad nauseam, the tool to do all of this, the Bruen decision, is only 6 months old. 
 

You have avoided answering what YOU are doing to be PART of the solution..other than complaining on an internet gun forum. 
 

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1 hour ago, BigGuns said:

So, none of you can tell me which unconstitutional gun laws passed,  have been overturned or reversed in the past decade or two in NJ. I've seen more layered on instead of being removed.

Apparently, it's easier to launch personal attacks, instead of providing the information I requested.

Please stop with that logic and facts. Some don't like the current reality.

I have an approved carry permit... 

Something people like you said would never happen.... 

 

Again, what brought you to the forums post Bruen? 

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1 hour ago, Walkinguf61 said:

Example in NJ, huh? I don’t know if this falls under your definition of unconstitutional but:
Okay. How about the LEOSA victory in NJ. Retired NJ officers in the past could not carry hollowpoints but I , as an out of state retired officer could . That was overturned. 

Yeah, I would put any law that grants special abilities to _retired_ police as unconstitutional.

But that grift has been baked into the system since the 1920s

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5 minutes ago, Walkinguf61 said:

Actually before 1920. It was common law since before the revolution.

Cite?

Explain how it works with the concept of "equal protection", since  a retired leo.. is a civilian.

Note that one of the attacks on the carry killer bill is the exemption of judges, prosecutors, and attorney generals from that law.

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5 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

I have an approved carry permit... 

Something people like you said would never happen.... 

And you can use it, no matter where you go in the state right now, correct? Do you feel safer carrying in all your normal stores, businesses, malls, and all other public areas you frequent?

5 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Again, what brought you to the forums post Bruen? 

Lurking long before then. You looking to chase more new members away from the forum? Doesn't seem like this place is too popular, considering the million gun owners in the state? How come?

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5 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

I have an approved carry permit... 

Something people like you said would never happen.... 

 

Again, what brought you to the forums post Bruen? 

...and no thanks to anything any organization or your donated funds have done here in NJ over the many decades.....we are funding both sides of the battle.....when you understand that and what needs to be done, ya just might get some results........maybe......omo.

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3 hours ago, b47356 said:

Cite?

Explain how it works with the concept of "equal protection", since  a retired leo.. is a civilian.

Note that one of the attacks on the carry killer bill is the exemption of judges, prosecutors, and attorney generals from that law.

It doesn’t even fall under equal protection provisions. If it did, things like veterans credit on civil service exams would not be allowed either. 
Nor would government workers get pensions etc. 

Equal protection is also equal opportunity. Did you have an opportunity to do the 20 years to get that ? 
As far as common law, law enforcement and military officers have had a tradition of keeping their sidearm. Even in Europe  where they had strict weapons limitations on the common people .

Then there was basic “ professional courtesy “. How many times has a cop or retired cop been arrested for mere gun possession? Not many . 

When 2004 ‘a LEOSA act passed, why were retired officers including? Why have had been an LE in the past was given  an almost automatic gun permit upon retirement? Even before the 1968 gun control act ? Why have anti-gunners , even the non political ones,  until recently, have always seen retired cops as being being okay to have a concealed firearm, both in reality and literature? 
The answer is common law. Or you could use the Bruen decision guidelines.

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8 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

You have avoided answering what YOU are doing to be PART of the solution..other than complaining on an internet gun forum. 

So pointing out current reality is now considered complaining?

I'm still waiting on that list of other laws that were overruled or overturned and we got our rights back. I would think getting the 10 round law overturned would have been an easy one (or going back to 30 rounds). Or removing restrictions on telescoping stocks, pinned/welded comps, bayonet mounts, foregrips, threaded barrels, flash hiders, etc. should have been easy, but they all still stand. Plus the overbearing FID process and the P2P process hasn't changed since signed into law.

So, if these overbearing, unconstitutional laws haven't been overturned, it doesn't make me hopeful that anything else that's been signed into law will either. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised, but history hasn't been friendly to us.

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16 minutes ago, BigGuns said:

So pointing out current reality is now considered complaining?

I'm still waiting on that list of other laws that were overruled or overturned and we got our rights back. I would think getting the 10 round law overturned would have been an easy one (or going back to 30 rounds). Or removing restrictions on telescoping stocks, pinned/welded comps, bayonet mounts, foregrips, threaded barrels, flash hiders, etc. should have been easy, but they all still stand. Plus the overbearing FID process and the P2P process hasn't changed since signed into law.

So, if these overbearing, unconstitutional laws haven't been overturned, it doesn't make me hopeful that anything else that's been signed into law will either. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised, but history hasn't been friendly to us.

OK @BigGuns - I'll give you the admission you so desperately seem to be looking for.

So far, none of the unconstitutional statutes you mention have been knocked down....and yes, you are right, some of them have been standing for 4 years and plenty more much longer and they still have not been knocked down.

What you are seem to be failing to understand is that legal cases move exceedingly slowly. Courts frequently allow 45 days for responses to motions and another 45 days for replies to those responses. That's 3 months gone for a single argument. Is it nuts? Sure, but that is still what it is.

Now look at the Bruen decision. That is 6 months old. Do you really expect multiple cases to be resolved in 6 months when it can take 3 months for a single argument to run through the court?

Next, try to be objective when looking at the history of these cases. Do you think it would have been better to lose (picking at random) the mag capacity case 2 years ago and have to start from scratch with a new case post-Bruen, or to have an active case with the briefs  establishing the facts already in place when we are given the tools that were handed down in the Bruen decision?

For more than a decade the lower courts that hate the Second Amendment have dodged the Heller test and used a 2 part interest balancing test instead. Bruen told them in no uncertain terms that they can't do that. We have the most powerful legal tool we have ever had and the vast majority of the statutes will fall as a result, but it takes time and effort.

The lawyers working for us do not have infinite resources, both in terms of money and time and they are prioritizing what they work on for the most effective use of the resources available.

You may not regard it as complaining, but all you seem to do is cast shade on the efforts and progress that has been made. You are not helping, and you are drawing energy away from those of us that see a better future. Is that your objective?

I have given you the admission you wanted. Can you be satisfied now?

 

TLDR: Yes, you're absolutely right. Have a nice day and Merry Christmas.

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9 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

...and no thanks to anything any organization or your donated funds have done here in NJ over the many decades.....we are funding both sides of the battle.....when you understand that and what needs to be done, ya just might get some results........maybe......omo.

Ohh please elaborate on what needs to be done...

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7 hours ago, BigGuns said:

So pointing out current reality is now considered complaining?

I'm still waiting on that list of other laws that were overruled or overturned and we got our rights back. I would think getting the 10 round law overturned would have been an easy one (or going back to 30 rounds). Or removing restrictions on telescoping stocks, pinned/welded comps, bayonet mounts, foregrips, threaded barrels, flash hiders, etc. should have been easy, but they all still stand. Plus the overbearing FID process and the P2P process hasn't changed since signed into law.

So, if these overbearing, unconstitutional laws haven't been overturned, it doesn't make me hopeful that anything else that's been signed into law will either. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised, but history hasn't been friendly to us.

How long have you been following constitutional challenges to NJ gun laws? 

NJs carry law was literally struck down.. you coincidentally showed up here shortly after.. 

We're still very curious what brought you to these forums. Bruen over turns NJ Carry law, and you show up complaining no one is getting anything done... 

It's almost comical given the battles WE have supported here for decades. 

 

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