galapoola 102 Posted October 20, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 6:35 AM, Jon K said: This is the reason I haven't bothered to go through the process of getting a CCW, I knew it would be weeks before the Marxists running this state destroyed CCW. You can have a CCW, just can't use it ANYWHERE in the state. And no, you probably wont still be alive by the time the courts strike it down. If ever. Things you can do with a NJ PTC even if this bill passes: get a PA non resident which we could not prior, take a walk in the neighborhood carrying. Not much but at least I have a permit when the bill gets signed into law. A federal judge could suspend it like the one in NY. Heck, because NJ & NY are blatantly pissing on SCOTUS, the justice assigned to our region could write a one pager ordering the states to follow their direction in Bruen. On its face, this bill is 100% un-constitutional, it may not even need long drawn out court cases. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,555 Posted October 20, 2022 Check this out. 2 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, silverado427 said: Check this out. She is absolutely correct, and he dodged the question every time!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted October 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, silverado427 said: Check this out. She's good and he's a tool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spartiati 63 Posted October 20, 2022 35 minutes ago, silverado427 said: Check this out. The better question would have been, in conformance with the Supreme Court decision in Bruen, how did you consider whether or not any of these sensitive places have history and tradition in the US. I understand there are places you don't want to see guns but that is not the test the Supreme Court set forth. I don't think she did a particularly good job here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, galapoola said: Things you can do with a NJ PTC even if this bill passes: get a PA non resident which we could not prior, take a walk in the neighborhood carrying. Not much but at least I have a permit when the bill gets signed into law. A federal judge could suspend it like the one in NY. Heck, because NJ & NY are blatantly pissing on SCOTUS, the justice assigned to our region could write a one pager ordering the states to follow their direction in Bruen. On its face, this bill is 100% un-constitutional, it may not even need long drawn out court cases. i think that an appeals court put the kabosh on that suspension on the ny case Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted October 20, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 6:35 AM, Jon K said: This is the reason I haven't bothered to go through the process of getting a CCW, I knew it would be weeks before the Marxists running this state destroyed CCW. You can have a CCW, just can't use it ANYWHERE in the state. And no, you probably wont still be alive by the time the courts strike it down. If ever. I don't think everyone HAS to go through the process, but if you're even remotely interested in carrying then I think you should do so as soon as possible. The more people who go through the process NOW, the better. It forces local/state PD's and court systems to recognize that the law has changed and they must issue. It forces them to make processing carry permits as part of their "business as usual" activities. Yes, the legislature will act like spoiled children and do everything they can to cock-block things, but eventually they will lose because of Bruen. If everyone said "screw it...I'll wait until things are perfect" there would be zero progress and change wouldn't happen. I'm just about at 90 days in and I don't have a permit, but I'm pressing my local PD and they just advised that my application is "with the court". I have no illusions that I'll have the permit soon, but I've waited 50 years, so i'm not in a hurry. Once i get it I understand that it will take several months/years for the stupid restrictions to go away in court challenges, but that's come with being part of the change process. I encourage you and everyone else on the fence to get on board now. Someone previously reminded us that Rome wasn't built in a day... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ESB 240 Posted October 20, 2022 41 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said: if you're even remotely interested in carrying then I think you should do so as soon as possible. The more people who go through the process NOW, the better. Agree. If your county is issuing permits without undue restrictions (other than limiting to guns qualified for). I think what you may soon see is courts issuing extremely restricted permits like the one in Ocean county as a way around it. Get your permit before before they start adding unreasonable restrictions on the back of every permit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
galapoola 102 Posted October 20, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 1:47 PM, ESB said: Agree. If your county is issuing permits without undue restrictions (other than limiting to guns qualified for). I think what you may soon see is courts issuing extremely restricted permits like the one in Ocean county as a way around it. Get your permit before before they start adding unreasonable restrictions on the back of every permit. Also, let’s say these terrible bills become law, who’s to say they’ll be enforced? We all thought carry would never happen, yet here it is. What if some towns and counties say they will not enforce unconstitutional laws? It happens all the time across the US, sheriffs say they will uphold their oath to the constitution and not some silly law. Also, all the NJ 2A safe haven towns, now is their time to make it real. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigGuns 262 Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, ESB said: Get your permit before before they start adding unreasonable restrictions on the back of every permit. They can still pass new laws and new restrictions AFTER you get the permit and make them retroactive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said: Someone previously reminded us that Rome wasn't built in a day... But it fell pretty damn fast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrigs4095 11 Posted October 20, 2022 2 hours ago, 124gr9mm said: I don't think everyone HAS to go through the process, but if you're even remotely interested in carrying then I think you should do so as soon as possible. The more people who go through the process NOW, the better. It forces local/state PD's and court systems to recognize that the law has changed and they must issue. It forces them to make processing carry permits as part of their "business as usual" activities. Yes, the legislature will act like spoiled children and do everything they can to cock-block things, but eventually they will lose because of Bruen. If everyone said "screw it...I'll wait until things are perfect" there would be zero progress and change wouldn't happen. I'm just about at 90 days in and I don't have a permit, but I'm pressing my local PD and they just advised that my application is "with the court". I have no illusions that I'll have the permit soon, but I've waited 50 years, so i'm not in a hurry. Once i get it I understand that it will take several months/years for the stupid restrictions to go away in court challenges, but that's come with being part of the change process. I encourage you and everyone else on the fence to get on board now. Someone previously reminded us that Rome wasn't built in a day... I really like your post makes me encouraged and that i did the right thing by going through the process . I turned in my packet September 26 so I'm in the waiting game like you, but as you stated we've waited many years to even have a crack at so whats a few more months at this point. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, Wrigs4095 said: I really like your post makes me encouraged and that i did the right thing by going through the process . I turned in my packet September 26 so I'm in the waiting game like you, but as you stated we've waited many years to even have a crack at so whats a few more months at this point. Im about 30days in, and just got told by PD, that they are 60+ days behind getting them to court, haven't got any back, and the more people calling for updates, the longer it's going to take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted October 20, 2022 Here's the committee recording edited down to just the A4769 portion and put on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/762399865 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky Lefty 112 Posted October 20, 2022 This bill passed through the NJ Legislature hearing today with a majority vote of YES. PBA supports the bill, as long as they are excluded from it. The sponsor of the bill, assemblyman Danielson, acklnowedge he believes you should be arrested and charged with a 3rd degree crime for accidentally walking onto private property while carrying, and then said he doesn't even know what the punishment for a 3rd degree crime was (3 to 5 years in prison and a $15,000 fine). When asked about the part of the bill not allowing carry in a vehicle, which would force a permit holder to brandish their firearm in public view, which is a crime, assemblyman Danielson said he was not aware that brandishing a firearm was a crime. The assemblywoman running the show then said something along the lines that it's on the public to know whether or not someone is brandishing a firearm to commit a crime or if they were just attempting to properly store their firearm in the trunk. I feel like I just watched an episode of The Twilight Zone 2 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said: Here's the committee recording edited down to just the A4769 portion and put on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/762399865 Awesome! Thanks for sharing! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said: Here's the committee recording edited down to just the A4769 portion and put on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/762399865 So I started to watch, and had to stop. All I saw were citizens who spoke truth, PBA who only cared about cops, a Karen who thinks ppl are shooting up health care facilities, and a panel who didn't give 2 shits about the constitution. 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RadioGunner 218 Posted October 20, 2022 Well I knew the PBA wasn’t with us a long time now. No shields, no blue line stickers, nothing for me. They don’t care about infringement and probably like the fact that retired cops keep their privilege above what we have as serfs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucin 918 Posted October 20, 2022 2 hours ago, RadioGunner said: Well I knew the PBA wasn’t with us a long time now. No shields, no blue line stickers, nothing for me. They don’t care about infringement and probably like the fact that retired cops keep their privilege above what we have as serfs. That will give us a 14th amendment angle to overturn all this bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spartiati 63 Posted October 20, 2022 A complaint was brought before western district court of NY challenging the sensitive place restriction in the CCIA specific to places of worship. The district court judge today has issued a TRO. Another good score for the cause with well developed reasoning that will apply to most of the sensitive places in the CCIA of NY as well as the proposed bill A4769. interestingly during discussion today in the appropriations committee assemblyman Danielsen admitted that his intent wasn’t to prevent places of worship (private institutions) from making their own decisions in allowing carry, so I think it is likely that will come out of the next version of the bill along with the requirement of a retention strap for holsters (based on the the debate with the PBA rep). https://www.saf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Hardaway-Decision-Order-C.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted October 21, 2022 "They" are throwing shit against the wall to see what will stick. Fight 'em all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted October 21, 2022 Asm. Joe Danielsen is showing himself to be quite the dictatorial arsehole. Maybe he's vying to be Gov. Gopher's running mate in '24? Edited to add: Personal and Career Information Education: A.S. Middlesex County College (Marketing, Art and Design) B.A. Rutgers University (Visual Arts) Occupation: Owner, Network Blade L.L.C. Legislative Service •General Assembly 2014-present, Deputy Whip 2020-present So it appears that he has a degree in Smoke & Mirrors with a concentration in Bullshit. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky Lefty 112 Posted October 21, 2022 That hearing yesterday was nothing short of despicable. They treated the PBA representative like he was their choir boy. Everything he said they handled with white gloves, and every argument he made was why this bill shouldn't exist for anyone, let alone cops vs citizens. He stated how this bill essentially prohibits carry everywhere, and that's just not fair (to Leo and rpo). He brought up the holster language, and insinuated that the bill was essentially telling woman who wanted to carry would have to alter their wardrobe to follow the bill as written, and he 'wouldn't dare tell women what they could or could not wear' and they chairwoman interjected with a "thank you" for speaking up for them. The chairwoman made a reply to him of how much they like him and how "special" the PBA rep was to them. Then when the Republican side has a chance to question the sponsor (which while they did a decent job, they really could have dug a but deeper with their arguments with the sponsor), they acted offended and were extremely condescending. When assemblyman Bergen made the same exact argument about woman carrying, they all blasted him as trying to make woman seem helpless and the chairwoman and sponsor Danielson appeared deeply offended he would try to say the bill was unfair to woman. The sponsors response to the bill prohibiting carry in places of worship, when asked if the place of worship could allow members of the facility to carry amd would they exempt them from the place of worship prohibition, he scrambled and with high levels of uncertainty claimed that it would fall under permission from private property, and he "wouldn't want anyone at church to be mad at him", implying he'd make sure there was a loop hole for places of worship. One of the worst, is assemblyman Danielson refusing to give even 1 example of where you can utilize your carry permit when not on your own property. His answer of "everywhere.... everywhere that is not listed as prohibited in the bill" is unbelievable, considering "everywhere" is essentially prohibited on the bill. Everywhere, should mean everywhere. It's sad and disheartening to see this is how our political system works. End rant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted October 21, 2022 23 hours ago, silverado427 said: Check this out. has anyone gone on youtube and posted comments or asked questions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted October 21, 2022 55 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said: His answer of "everywhere.... everywhere that is not listed as prohibited in the bill" is unbelievable, considering "everywhere" is essentially prohibited on the bill. Everywhere, should mean everywhere. This is the legal status quo for NJ serfs. EVERYTHING (in every aspect of life in NJ) is illegal unless Trenton gives you a permission slip. What is not expressly permitted is tacitly denied. We live in a two class society of lords and serfs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,653 Posted October 21, 2022 No way in hell that will stand a legal challenge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigGuns 262 Posted October 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said: No way in hell that will stand a legal challenge. How many years do you have? Has the 10 round mag limit from 2018 been overturned yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,653 Posted October 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, BigGuns said: How many years do you have? Has the 10 round mag limit from 2018 been overturned yet? 6 months ago, to have CCW in NJ was a pipe dream for most everyone. The Bruen decision paved the way for that for y’all. You HAD to expect that the NJ Govt was going to fight it tooth and nail, the whole way (using YOUR tax money, adding insult to injury). NY is doing the same thing, and their very clearly unconstitutional law is currently being challenged. When it falls, NJ will have no choice but to follow suit. Unfortunately, y’all will have to go through the process to get this overturned. I said earlier, ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’. It’s going to take a little more time to bitch slap these NJ (and NY) tyrants, and show them they HAVE to abide by COTUS. Stay in the fight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike77 169 Posted October 21, 2022 NJ laws are always grey. Never black and white. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichP 115 Posted October 21, 2022 Agree that our representatives need to be better prepared in asking these questions to the opposition. Somethings like: 1. If you are legally permitted to own/carry a handgun, which required you to submit to ~3 criminal background checks, a mental health check and qualification test, and decide to go trick-or-treating with your child; are you allowed to walk them to the door, or do you have to remain on the sidewalk. 2. If you are legally permitted to own/carry a handgun, which required you to submit to ~3 criminal background checks, a mental health check and qualification test, and decide that you'd like to go for a pre-dawn run at the park before going to work; are you allowed to bring along your handgun or do you have to wait until sun-up and there are more people around? I've got tons more.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted October 21, 2022 Quote In case you missed seeing this elsewhere, the NJ Office of Legislative Services has already found that most of A4769 is very likely going to upended by a federal district court. see link below https://www.reddit.com/r/NJGuns/comments/y9c1ct/for_your_reading_pleasure_on_a4769/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites