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revenger

Morris county permits

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1 hour ago, NJ2AMBR said:

day 102   call from PD   come pick up permit    feels good 

Permit was not back dated... shows 01-10-23 permit issue date and good for 2 yrs

did come with court order showing serial numbers allowed to carry and that it can be amended to add other handguns with new quals

was told to make copies of court order and put in each vehicle. I'd guess pocket carry a copy if not in vehicle. also.

so, until the cases play out in our favor, we follow the rules and .....Carry on

 

 

 

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I haven't posted here in ages. 

I submitted my paperwork mid September. Detective in my local municipality got it out the door by the end of the week. The permit was issued in mid December 

ETE about 95 days. 

Same nonsense as everyone else, permit says "see court order." With the serials of the guns I qualified with. 

Good luck to those still waiting. Hope you get it soon. 

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not sure whats going on in morris county,  seems typical no accountability for govt employees.   If courts are taken out of the process I have to wonder if it would be faster to reapply at PD, start from scratch?

 

did anyone call the morris court and give their name and ask where they are in the cue and did it have a negative affect or positive.   were they able to give you a number?

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On 1/20/2023 at 2:28 PM, revenger said:

not sure whats going on in morris county,  seems typical no accountability for govt employees.   If courts are taken out of the process I have to wonder if it would be faster to reapply at PD, start from scratch?

 

did anyone call the morris court and give their name and ask where they are in the cue and did it have a negative affect or positive.   were they able to give you a number?

Didn’t tell me where I was, but to expect another 6 weeks…PD got it Oct 4, court got it Nov 4

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You’re close

I was PD 10-3

Money order cashed 11-9

picked up 1-13 

Speculating of course…possible they hold to build up 5-6-10 before sending back to an individual township instead of sending 1 at a time ? My PD said he received 6 in this, my batch

who knows ..it’s all over the place with people still waiting 5 months and on 

carry on 

 

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On 1/20/2023 at 2:28 PM, revenger said:

not sure whats going on in morris county,  seems typical no accountability for govt employees.   If courts are taken out of the process I have to wonder if it would be faster to reapply at PD, start from scratch?

 

did anyone call the morris court and give their name and ask where they are in the cue and did it have a negative affect or positive.   were they able to give you a number?

I called a couple of times while I was waiting and they were polite each time, so I don't think it will hurt you.  

Maybe talk to your local PD and ask them about reapplying. 

 

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61 days at court and check not cashed?   I tried to enlist the help of my legislatures and senator to just have them inquire of the court the process and was surprised none wanted to touch it?    I left astonished as they all claim to be big pro2a supporters.

next time they ask for money I'll bring this up with them.

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After 155 days I have finally received my PTC. Came with a wonderful 2 page court order that must be carried. Motion to vacate that order will be filed.

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9 minutes ago, brucin said:

After 155 days I have finally received my PTC. Came with a wonderful 2 page court order that must be carried. Motion to vacate that order will be filed.

Glad it finally came through!!

Let us know how things go with the request to the court!

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Just now, 124gr9mm said:

Let us know how things go with the request to the court!

Will do. Hopefully the snow is light tomorrow and I don't have to work too much OT so I can write the motion and get it to the court on Thursday.

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21 minutes ago, brucin said:

After 155 days I have finally received my PTC. Came with a wonderful 2 page court order that must be carried. Motion to vacate that order will be filed.

Congrats! What a crazy wait so congrats on extreme patience too!. What's the issue date on your permit?

Also, I am thinking to file a motion to vacate the court order. Let us know how that goes!

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On 1/24/2023 at 10:51 PM, g17owner said:

Also, I am thinking to file a motion to vacate the court order. Let us know how that goes!

Someone on the Facebook NJ Firearms Owners Syndicate wrote that he filed a motion and received a call from a clerk regarding the motion. He was told the judge will approve qualifications on more handguns however they will defend in court a motion to dismiss and advised that council be obtained for this. If you were to represent yourself it would require you to show up in court and the county could ask for an adjournment and you have just wasted your time and resources which is finite while the county has infinite time and resources.

It appears that most if not all permits issued by Morris Co have a court order restricting the permit to handguns qualified with.

I wonder would it be possible to get a few dozen Morris Co permit holders together and file a class action motion to dismiss all the orders?

I don't understand enough about how the courts work to know if this is possible.

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The Morris County Superior Court informed me that my permit was approved and sent to my local PD!   Now I need to pester the PD; they tend to sit on all things firearm-related.  

Mine was held up for a week by a bad serial number.   I received an email from a probation officer with the court, asking for confirmation of the serial number of one of the guns on my qualification paperwork.   I was out-of-state at the time, with no one in NJ with access to the gun safe, so it took a few days for me to respond

Once I confirmed the correct serial number, the judge signed the permit same-day and mailed it out.  

I'll report back once I have the permit in-hand.

 

 

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On 1/21/2023 at 4:44 PM, NJ2AMBR said:

You’re close

I was PD 10-3

Money order cashed 11-9

picked up 1-13 

Speculating of course…possible they hold to build up 5-6-10 before sending back to an individual township instead of sending 1 at a time ? My PD said he received 6 in this, my batch

who knows ..it’s all over the place with people still waiting 5 months and on 

carry on 

 

so 2 months from cashed check to issuing,   that's not good for anyone waiting.   I just saw that my check was cashed on friday so I hope its not the end of march for mine.

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I picked up my permit this week!

Applied mid-late Sept

Money Order cashed around Nov 1

Approved by Morris County Superior Court last week.

About 130 days after application, including the weekends and quite a few court holidays.  On top of that, before applying I spent over a month collecting paperwork and mailing forms around for reference signatures and waiting to get a slot to fire the HQC. All-in-all, close to 5 months and almost $400 for the entire process.

References weren't contacted.  I have a two page court order which lists the handguns on my qualification form and specifies I'm limited to carrying only those, unless I have the permit amended to add additional guns.  No other restrictions checked. I have to carry the court order; the detective recommended keeping a copy in my glove box, and a clear scan of the document on my phone as the best way to meet that requirement.  I still need to clean up the poorly cut edges of the printed permit, and laminate the thing.

I can't decide if I'm more happy to have it, or pissed off at how difficult the state made the entire process.

 

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7 hours ago, 10X said:

I can't decide if I'm more happy to have it, or pissed off at how difficult the state made the entire process.

It's the latter for sure. Want to to get in on a class action suit to fix this court order BS? looking for any other Morris co holders too.

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2 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Have you tried contacting the judge to see if you can get the order rescinded?

Might be quicker and less expensive than filing a class action suit.

I emailed the court on Monday. So far, no response.

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11 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Have you tried contacting the judge to see if you can get the order rescinded?

Might be quicker and less expensive than filing a class action suit.

My understanding is the court will amend the order if you submit a qualification. My personal opinion is I shouldn't have to submit a qualification that may cost close to $200 since I have already proved through my first qualification that I am proficient in the use of firearms.

It is also my understanding that if you choose to submit a motion to vacate the judges order the court will require you to present your case in court and the prosecutors office will defend the court order  to deny the motion to vacate the original order. In order to present the best case one should be represented by an attorney which will cost considerably more than a qualification.

One could represent oneself however the phrase "an attorney who represents himself has a fool for a client" comes to mind.

I have an argument to present comparing a pen to a pencil. Both are different instruments that perform similar functions yet neither require the courts permission to use either to exercise your first amendment rights.

I presented my argument to my wife and she agreed that the argument is valid but since I do not have a law degree I will come off as a smartass. Her take is a lawyer earns the right to be a smartass because they have the degree.

I am also of the opinion that since each order is issued on an individual permit there really is no way to file one order to cover multiple plaintiffs motion to vacate. I think we are all on our own unless there is an attorney who can tell me different.

I have come to the sad conclusion that there are only  three options:

Submit more qualifications for the handguns you want to carry Hard no for me due to cost

Hire attorney to get order vacated also a hard no due to cost

Suck it up and wait till I renew and since so far no PD's have listed restrictions carry whatever you own as the law says.

I know Anthony Colandro has made a very good argument for only carrying what you qualified with and I really can not refute his reasoning as it is quite sound and based on the logic that this is NJ and they will use anything they can find to jam you up if you use a firearm to defend yourself in this state. Listen to his podcast for further info.

In closing one f my longest posts ever I think those of us with court orders in Morris Co are just stuck with what we qualified with and when we renew decide at that point if we want to take the risk of giving a prosecutor some extra ammo by carrying a gun we did not qualify with should we have to use it in a defensive situation.

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My buddy sent me his order ….he said his permit has no boxes check on the back and no pistols listed on it either…so no “see court order”. But he was given one by the judge after the hearing …..it starts off saying the applicant applied for a permit to carry a Glock model/serial number…. But then never says only that pistol it says multiple times throughout the document  “may carry pistol consistent with this order” ….. and in the order calls out 2c:58-4a…. Which is 

2C:58-4a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by subsection e. of N.J.S.2C:39-5. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

He tried calling the court to clarify as it seems to contradict itself to a degree he asked if they would consider a request to vacate/recind/ rewrite the order …in light of the developments after the issuance on 12/14/22…. He was told no and  said he would need to he would need to send in qualification paperwork for a revised order “listing” additional pistols than the one mentioned in line 1 

to me that order DOES NOT say he can only carry that specific pistol and it does not say he has to carry the order … I read it as just the permit when carrying “any pistol consistent with this order” thats any pistol he owns based on the court order mentioning 2c 58-4a……. What’s the consensus?  
the sections in bold italic underline was me for attention to those sections not that way  in the order 

 

THIS MATTER having been brought before the Court by the applicant, John Q. Public , pro se, for a permit to carry a 9mm Glock G45 handgun Serial No. Xxxx pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4 

and the Superintendent of the New Jersey State Police having
performed their investigation consistent with N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(c) and having determined that (1) the applicant is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c), and (2) the applicant is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and having approved the application and referred the applicant to this court for review and issuance ofthe permit to carry; and
This court having considered the application and said approval, and finding consistent with N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(d) that:
(1)the applicant is aperson of good characteras the applicant is not subject toany disabilities set forth in N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c) as evidenced by the investigative findings and approval of the Superintendent of the NewJersey State Police;
(2) the applicant is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of a handgun as evidenced by the investigative findings and approval of the Superintendent of theNew Jersey State Police and the proofs submitted with the application to this Court; and
(3) the applicant has paid the necessary fees as established by statute oradministrative code;
IT IS therefore on this 14*day of December 2022, ORDERED as follows:
(A) The application for a permit to carry a handgun is hereby GRANTED.

 (B) The permit ot carry a handgun si unrestricted except as set forth ni N.J.S.A. 2C:58- 4(a) with specific reference to N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(e).
(C) It shall be the permit holder'saffirmative obligation to confirm, before carrying a handgun consistent with this Order and the permit granted hereunder, whether any
federal, state or local government agency restrictsthe carrying of ahandgun ni any agency facility or building or property.
(D) The permit holder shall have in their possession the original carry permit at all times when also in possession of a handgun consistent with this Order; and
(E) The Superintendent of the New Jersey StatePolice shall issue the permit to carry consistent with this Order and the agency's own policies and procedures.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that this Order and the permit to carry shall expire on
December 14, 2024, two years from the date of this Order.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that, consistent with N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(f), the carry permit
shall be considered voidat the time the holder thereof becomes subject to any ofthe disabilities set forth in N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c), and the permit shall be immediately surrendered to the Superintendent of the New Jersey State Police.
HONORABLE LINDA L. LAWHUN, J.S.C.

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