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Lawnmower2021

Beretta 21A "Bobcat" - Thoughts?

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For some reason I keep gravitating towards this gun. I believe a local shop has the covert model in 22LR: https://www.beretta.com/en-us/21a-bobcat-covert/

Any thoughts? It seems like like a neat fun little gun that can be shot on the cheap. If only we could get a suppressor...

 

21a-bobcat-covert_zoom0021.jpg

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The tip up barrel is interesting.  They have a reputaiton about being very finicky about ammo and it's true.  Mine will stove pipe, fail to extract, or otherwise jamb on every other or every third round if I'm not using CCI mini mags or Blazer.  I've taken it out to the range several times and one or two people will try it and after 3 or 4 shots we just put it away.

With the two brands of ammo mentioned above, it will still have some sort of failure every couple of magazines. 

I'm keeping mine but it's not reliable enough to be useful if you actually needed it.

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2 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

The tip up barrel is interesting.  They have a reputaiton about being very finicky about ammo and it's true.  Mine will stove pipe, fail to extract, or otherwise jamb on every other or every third round if I'm not using CCI mini mags or Blazer.  I've taken it out to the range several times and one or two people will try it and after 3 or 4 shots we just put it away.

With the two brands of ammo mentioned above, it will still have some sort of failure every couple of magazines. 

I'm keeping mine but it's not reliable enough to be useful if you actually needed it.

Thank you for this critical feedback!

It does come across as a novelty at this point. From what I've read, it seems it doesn't actually have an extractor which could explain all the jams.

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I have been lusting after a Tomcat for many months, wanted a small caliber for the home and something the wife would be comfortable shooting, had one in my hand 6 weeks ago that was on sale the week before, the FFL wouldn’t drop the price to the sale price so I passed. Glad I did, the following week this went on sale, https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380/black-label-1911-380-compact.html picked it up and very happy I did, very small, easy to shoot, very accurate and not a single failure in 400 rounds. It’s a very very small 1911 pistol. 

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Thanks for the feedback all. I have a decent stockpile of CCI minimags.

Seems mileage varies, but discovered Beretta has a $75 on new tomcat and bobcat purchases: https://rapid-rebates.com/tomcat-bobcat

Will see what happens :) Though a 1911 in .380ACP is also very interesting!

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I have a late 1980's model, blued with the wooden grips.   when I first got it it would cycle any ammo Now it only likes CCI mini mag 36 gr copper plated hollow points.

I feel much of the .22 feeding issues encountered today are because of the ammo shortage and the Mfg's just pumping out as much as they can without much regard for consistency.  I have never had as many failures with .22 ammo until the last few years.

the old reliable, my late 70's 10/22 falls victim to this same problem,  different mags well cleaned,  even with .22 revolvers with no ignition with good strikes and dents on rim.

as far as the 21a it is a very safe gun with the tip up barrel since it is double action and no need to rack the slide to put a bullet in or to unload it. 

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On 12/24/2022 at 8:59 PM, maintenanceguy said:

if I'm not using CCI mini mags

 

6 hours ago, Tunaman said:

It loves Minimags and not much else.

 

1 hour ago, revenger said:

Now it only likes CCI mini mag

 

Aguila makes a pretty good Mexican Mini Mag, they call it Super Extra.  Very reliable and shoot on par with CCI, the only drawback is a stinky Ely primer that smells like cat whiz.

 

 

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On 12/25/2022 at 7:32 AM, maintenanceguy said:

You're right, there is no extractor.  Just a pin that protrudes through when the slide is in the rear position.  This pokes one side of the case and flips it out of the way - but it doesn't always work.

 

20221225_072219.jpg

That's the ejector. If you have that much brass on the breech, it's not clean.

I have a 21A for over 20 years.  After a break in it works almost 100% on MiniMags.

Okay I said almost 100%.  The first 100 rds run a 100%.  The next 100 rds will have 5-6 failures to extract. If it doesn't extract the ejector will do no.good. I attribute this to getting dirty.  This is not a Glock.  Clean it after shooting if you want to carry it for social purposes.  I have no issue carrying it after cleaning. I've carried this or a 950 in 25 ACP.  I had a Walther TPH that would only give 50% reliability in the DA mode. A 21A will go off in DA. Not a SD gun IMO by choice but I have a story where it worked well.  Ask me and I'll tell.

Now I'll carry a mouse gun as my only SD. That's due to a variety of issues.  However, I saw a video where a guy called mouse guns GTF off of me guns. If you pump 6 or 7 rds of 22s, 22lr, or 25 ACP into a target they're going to feel it.

So if you intend to carry a 21A make sure it's clean.  I carry Mini Mags solids. You need the penetration in a mouse gun. A 22lr hollowpoint penetrates as much as a 22s. A solid does better

Remember, most encounters will require LTL. I carry a Kimber Pepper Blaster. Legal in NJ and NY. Although you have to swear it was bought in NY.

So if you're carrying a 21A make sure it's clean and loaded with solids.

WTF do I know.  I've only been carrying guns for almost 50 years. Been a firearms instructor for almost 48.

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You only need a silencer (look at the original patent application before you tell me it's a suppressor) if you're intending to whack someone.  The Mossad has done great with Beretta M70s.

BTW, the problem with Berettas with tip up barrels presents a totally alien immediate action drill.  If you get a failure to extract and you pull back the slide you'll most likely wind up pulling the slide off the frame.  You need to tip up the barrel, shake or pull the failure to extract from the chamber.

As far as caliber I feel confident with my German 32 PPK.  Hey it was good enough for James Bond!!! Some forum members have shot that pistol.

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Thanks for the feedback everyone :) 

The common thread I see online is that the newer 21A Covert models fail more often. Seems people have better luck with the Inox or older blued models.

I'm not ready to give up on this one. However, I know Beretta's customer service is awful right now. While it's rare, I have seen people have serious mechanical issues with this gun like the double action not working.

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2 hours ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone :) 

The common thread I see online is that the newer 21A Covert models fail more often. Seems people have better luck with the Inox or older blued models.

I'm not ready to give up on this one. However, I know Beretta's customer service is awful right now. While it's rare, I have seen people have serious mechanical issues with this gun like the double action not working.

Mine is from 1999.  Blued with gold accents and trigger.  .22 long rifle  It is a cute little thing.  Fits in a pocket and disappears.

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On 12/26/2022 at 3:17 PM, Scorpio64 said:

the only drawback is a stinky Ely primer that smells like cat whiz.

I thought that was the guy in the port next to me.

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New Colors!

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/21-a-bobcat-ghost-buster/

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/21-a-bobcat-silver-black-gorilla/

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/21-a-bobcat-kale-slushy/

I was considering checking out the 21A Covert at the nearest shop but they're selling for ~$650 which is a lot even with the $75 rebate this month. Maybe I'll wait for the ghosts to proliferate.

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Little gunz can shoot. 

Tho I haven't shot it in years, I could shoot 25 rounds out of a .25 ACP Raven; the very definition of "Saturday Night Special", into the circle of a standard NRA 25 yard target at 25 feet.  Never a misfire.

Not bad for a pistol that was originally a "promo" for a year's membership in a range.

 

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15 hours ago, W2MC said:

Little gunz can shoot. 

Tho I haven't shot it in years, I could shoot 25 rounds out of a .25 ACP Raven; the very definition of "Saturday Night Special", into the circle of a standard NRA 25 yard target at 25 feet.  Never a misfire.

Not bad for a pistol that was originally a "promo" for a year's membership in a range.

 

The Raven is a great pistol imo.  Not super accurate like a Beretta. However a GTF off me gun.

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Well, nothing else caught my eye so I decided to add a bobcat to the collection.

It's prettier in person than I expected. It has a clean finish and the grips are kind of gorgeous.

It's also smaller than a PPK, but the PPK has a vastly superior trigger. I mean, it's not even close. It's kind of surprising how heavy this trigger feels! But it's ok, I'm hoping this will be a fun pew-pewer, especially with one hand.

image.thumb.png.117cd3a8d3233de789c8dcfd4b35d617.png

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Just an update if anyone's curious (especially since the new colors are around).

The first time I shot this thing, the DA trigger stopped working. I sent it in and got it back within 3-4 weeks.

After about 150 rounds, it's still working fine and hasn't had any cycling or trigger issues. Mostly using CCI Mini Mags.

Very fun shooter! Somehow I'm more accurate with DA than SA.

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