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The Concealed Carry Experience....

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I thought that it might be interesting topic to share the peculiarities of the carry experience as it would seem that a good portion of us are new to this. One thing that was interesting for me was carry location on the body. My initial plan was to carry at around the 4 o'clock position. This was ok but not totally comfortable in a few situations like driving a car. So then I switched to appendix carry. Much better, Very comfortable. This presents a problem though. My loaded gun is pointed in the general direction of my leg and my junk. I'm sure most of you would agree that this is really a bad idea. So in the interest of carrying comfortably and not wanting to have to worry about shooting my junk I have decided for now to carry on an empty chamber.  I know carrying on an empty chamber is frowned upon by some but as a beginner I feel comfortable and safe this way.

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You have to do what's best/most comfortable for you, so if you've landed at unloaded appendix then go with it.

Given the choice between unloaded appendix and loaded 4 oclock I'd go with loaded 4 oclock...but that's me.

 

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As you note, every carry position has its compromises.  Personally, I have had a lot of experience carrying out of state, and have become comfortable with IWB 4:00 position.  Agreed, it can be uncomfortable in a car, but for most of the time, I find it to be a good balance among concealment, comfort, and accessibility.

I get your concerns about muzzle position in appendix carry.  I have dabbled in AC from time to time, but have always gone back to 4:00. IMHO, it's OK to try carrying on an empty chamber until you are comfortable, but there are too many scenarios where you either don't have time or don't have a free hand to chamber a round. I would urge you to switch over to having one in the chamber ready to go as soon as you can.

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I don't find AIWB comfortable at all. Maybe it is just my body shape, or maybe I'm doing it wrong, but nonetheless, I'm not doing it.

I carry a G19 with a TLR7a or a G26 with a TLR6 at 3 o'clock IWB with an FBI cant. With this position I can easily bend forward at the waist without the gun digging into me. I can also squat or bend forwards without the butt of the gun sticking out like a flag like it would at 4 o'clock. It is also comfortable to sit, whether in a car or any other seat. The only drawback is access while seated and belted in a car.

I am a great advocate of carrying with a loaded chamber. Your draw stroke is much simpler without the extra steps of charging the gun before you present it.

Additionally, you may not have the time to rack in a round.

If you're sure you want to carry this way, practice, practice and practice some more getting the gun out of the holster and charged so you can do it instinctively if you ever need to. Include practicing doing it without your support hand. - NB. use dummy ammo or snap caps, not live ammo while practicing this.

When I say practice, I mean hundreds, if not thousands of reps. Don't just to it a couple of times and call it good. Through practice and competition I have drawn my gun countless times, and I still practice it regularly. Gun handling is a perishable skill. I also pay attention to changes in equipment. Drawing from an IWB holster is not the same as my OWB holsters that I usually use at matches. Last month I ran my carry rig for the match as I felt I had enough dryfire practice with it. I finished 3rd, behind 2 guys running full sized pistols in OWB holsters, one of which was also running a dot.

 

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I've always been taught that a holstered gun is a safe gun. But I do agree with you in that drawing/holstering is likely when an issue with AIWB  can happen. Carrying with an empty chamber, if it makes you feel better, is fine as long as you realize its downside and practice accordingly.

There are many other options that you should also be able to utilize. Learning all of the features of the gun you plan on using, and exactly how they work (transfer bar, manual safety, drop safety, trigger safety, etc.) goes a long way. You could then choose a firearm or feature that makes you most comfortable to carry. Some options include a manual safety, or an exposed hammer D/A gun, or add a striker control to your Glock, etc..

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I am either carrying OWB at 3 o'clock or now that I have lost a significant amount of weight .... AIWB.  But I also am carrying with an Empty Chamber. 

I am looking into adding the Manual Safety to my P365, which then I would carry with one in the pipe.... 

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2 hours ago, RichP said:

I've always been taught that a holstered gun is a safe gun. But I do agree with you in that drawing/holstering is likely when an issue with AIWB  can happen. Carrying with an empty chamber, if it makes you feel better, is fine as long as you realize its downside and practice accordingly.

It depends on the gun and the holster.

A soft Uncle Mike's style holster is not much good at protecting the trigger and there have been reports of some guns, Sig P320's mostly lately, that have fired while holstered. Sig obviously deny any fault with their guns and it is still to be settled as far as I know.

The danger of a gun firing while being drawn is attributable to poor gun handling. If your trigger finger is correctly indexed - and yes, it should be all the time except when you intend to fire a shot - there is nothing to cause the trigger to travel towards the backstrap of the gun. That is what makes the gun fire. 

Putting the gun into the holster has far more potential for a mishap because if the trigger is obstructed for any reason (coat toggle, fold of shirt, collapsed holster, incorrectly placed finger, etc.) the motion of the gun will cause the trigger to move towards the backstrap and the gun will fire. This is why you should always 'look' the gun into the holster - to make sure there are no obstructions before you start.

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12 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

 

Putting the gun into the holster has far more potential for a mishap because if the trigger is obstructed for any reason (coat toggle, fold of shirt, collapsed holster, incorrectly placed finger, etc.) the motion of the gun will cause the trigger to move towards the backstrap and the gun will fire. This is why you should always 'look' the gun into the holster - to make sure there are no obstructions before you start.

I've seen videos of that happening, which is why I carry a Springfield Armory 9 mm subcompact with a grip safety.  Even though I love my Glocks, I feel the grip safety gives me an extra layer of protection against an ND when I reholster, as I break my firing grip by placing my thumb on the back of the slide. 

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2 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

I've seen videos of that happening, which is why I carry a Springfield Armory 9 mm subcompact with a grip safety.  Even though I love my Glocks, I feel the grip safety gives me an extra layer of protection against an ND when I reholster, as I break my firing grip by placing my thumb on the back of the slide. 

There's the Striker Control Device for Glocks that does something similarish to the grip safety on an SA:

https://langdontactical.com/glock-striker-control-device-scd/

I've never tried one but it seems like an ok idea in theory. Your motion of thumb on the back of the slide should translate exactly here.

Video: 

 

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3 minutes ago, Xtors said:

There's the Striker Control Device for Glocks that does something similarish to the grip safety on an SA:

https://langdontactical.com/glock-striker-control-device-scd/

I've never tried one but it seems like an ok idea in theory. Your motion of thumb on the back of the slide should translate exactly here.

Video: 

 

Yeah, i've seen those but I'm not a fan of adding something to the fire control system of a Glock.  Adding a potential point of failure IMO.

I have a compact pistol with a manual thumb safety that I'll likely use if I ever get a carry permit (application submitted over 5 months ago), but it's was designed/built with that feature.

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I have holstered numerous Glocks as well as other striker fired handguns (e.g. P320, XD, XD(m), TX22, M&P Shield) thousands of times and never had any issue, ever. As a match director and safety officer I have overseen tens of thousands of holster/unholster cycles and still never personally seen an issue.

I did hear a personal account of am XD(m) firing while being holstered at a match, but the trigger of that gun had very recently been modified by the owner to be lighter than stock. Theoretically, the grip safety could have saved his thigh and calf (yes he tagged both), but he had either defeated it with his grip, or done something dumb to that too.

 

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19 hours ago, Xtors said:

There's the Striker Control Device for Glocks that does something similarish to the grip safety on an SA:

I've had one for several years on my G19 (got one of the first "production" ones via kickstarter).  No issues, other than having to occasionally explain what it is.

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6 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

I've had one for several years on my G19 (got one of the first "production" ones via kickstarter).  No issues, other than having to occasionally explain what it is.

I have one that I use in classes that require it*. Never had an issue with it. It’s a good option if you’re concerned.

That being said - I AIWB a Glock (either a G19 or a G48) daily. I carry fully loaded and charged in a Tenicor holster. I started carrying 20 years ago at OWB 3:00, then IWB 4:00, and settled on AIWB about 5 years ago.

As excellently stated by @Mr.Stu - re-holster deliberately - and carefully look the gun into the holster.

Make sure you are using OEM internals or parts that you are comfortable to maintain the trigger bar/striker interface as in spec as well as all the inertial safeties that are integral to the firearm remain functional. (I like Overwatch Precision for Trigger with bar or a Standard Co flat trigger shoe on an OEM trigger bar.)

 

 

*  Some instructors require it if you are AIWB a Glock in a concealed carry class.

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10 minutes ago, Xtors said:

Question for AIWB folks... are you carrying right at 12/center or slightly off to the side (like to the outside of the first belt loop)?

I find the most comfortable spot for me is about 12:30-1 on my body. 

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9 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

I find the most comfortable spot for me is about 12:30-1 on my body. 

I've been spending some time at our place in Florida, so I make it a point to carry every time I leave the house (while I suffer the interminable wait for my NJ CCW permit to be processed).  I have always carried IWB 4:00, but have recently experimented with AIWB, because I thought it might be more comfortable in the car.

So here's my question:  Do the rules of gun safety not apply when a gun is holstered, with the trigger guard completely covered?  Because otherwise, it is impossible to sit with the gun in an AIWB holster without it pointing at one's leg.  Seems like at 4:00 this is rarely or never an issue.

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3 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

So here's my question:  Do the rules of gun safety not apply when a gun is holstered, with the trigger guard completely covered?  Because otherwise, it is impossible to sit with the gun in an AIWB holster without it pointing at one's leg.  Seems like at 4:00 this is rarely or never an issue.

A properly holstered handgun in a good quality holster which fully protects the trigger is normally considered inert. If you do not trust your handgun to not fire when nothing is activating the trigger, you should probably reconsider which handgun you carry.

This is why soft holsters which can be deformed enough that the trigger can be manipulated through the side of the holster are a terrible idea.

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On 1/3/2023 at 2:21 PM, Mr.Stu said:

It depends on the gun and the holster.

Putting the gun into the holster has far more potential for a mishap because if the trigger is obstructed for any reason (coat toggle, fold of shirt, collapsed holster, incorrectly placed finger, etc.) the motion of the gun will cause the trigger to move towards the backstrap and the gun will fire. This is why you should always 'look' the gun into the holster - to make sure there are no obstructions before you start.

The big concern that is showing up broadly these days are holsters meant for guns with lights installed. Mostly because they leave a significant gap around the trigger guard to clear the lights, but things can get in those gaps. 

The toggles on coat cinches are trying to kill you. 

 

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4 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

So here's my question:  Do the rules of gun safety not apply when a gun is holstered, with the trigger guard completely covered?  Because otherwise, it is impossible to sit with the gun in an AIWB holster without it pointing at one's leg.  Seems like at 4:00 this is rarely or never an issue.

Yeah, maybe I'm too new to the carry game, but I'm not comfortable driving in the car with my gun pointed directly at my dick or thigh, so when get in the vehicle I move it over from 1:00 to 3:00.

My pistol has a thumb safety as well, but I'm just not there yet...

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1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

The big concern that is showing up broadly these days are holsters meant for guns with lights installed. Mostly because they leave a significant gap around the trigger guard to clear the lights, but things can get in those gaps. 

The toggles on coat cinches are trying to kill you. 

 

I don't carry with a light on my pistol, but I took a look online and most of the kydex holsters seemed to cover the trigger pretty well.  It's not totally flush like the non-light ones, but I'm not sure what could get in there.  Like this:

1796977834_2-7-202311-15-10AM.png.d8ab563cc14c95b4b95e9cff878b88fd.png

 

Is that the gap you're talking about, or is it a different type of holster?

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6 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

I don't carry with a light on my pistol, but I took a look online and most of the kydex holsters seemed to cover the trigger pretty well.  It's not totally flush like the non-light ones, but I'm not sure what could get in there.  Like this:

1796977834_2-7-202311-15-10AM.png.d8ab563cc14c95b4b95e9cff878b88fd.png

 

Is that the gap you're talking about, or is it a different type of holster?

Yeah if you want to see the potential hazard you'd need to see it from behind. It varies with light/gun combo and how each holster is made. They don't expose the triger visually, but effectively leave a tunnel on each side that things can get in. The gap is pretty significant with some holsters for some gun/light combos. 

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3 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

My Kydex holsters for G19 and light do not have clearance for your finger to get into the trigger guard. 
Re-holstering would be a concern, but that’s a concern with any holster really…

It's not your finger, it's foreign objects that are largely the concern. Like this thing on my jacket. 

image.png.49d61a63b1aa4f48aa62d46c46b07fcc.png

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2 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

It's not your finger, it's foreign objects that are largely the concern. Like this thing on my jacket. 

image.png.49d61a63b1aa4f48aa62d46c46b07fcc.png

You’re not wrong. Now I’m looking at my holsters. 
 

As I said previously, I think the biggest danger, at least with my holsters, is when you re-holster the gun. 
That will require extra vigilance to make sure nothing gets caught anyway..

1059392C-EB52-433D-A95C-BAD042408CDF.jpeg

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I am getting use to my IWB appendix position, originally it was tough. Also smaller smith shield plus with red dot is perfect for this. glock 19 with red dot and tlr light and spare mag I cary in fanny bag. It is too big for summer time IWB, winter it will go under jacket/arm pit holster. For long driving I got 4 oclock holsters, it is better in car.

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On 1/3/2023 at 2:38 PM, Old Glock guy said:

I've seen videos of that happening, which is why I carry a Springfield Armory 9 mm subcompact with a grip safety.  Even though I love my Glocks, I feel the grip safety gives me an extra layer of protection against an ND when I reholster, as I break my firing grip by placing my thumb on the back of the slide. 

i think it was he that showed me this......

https://langdontactical.com/glock-striker-control-device-scd/

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On 2/6/2023 at 8:27 PM, Xtors said:

Question for AIWB folks... are you carrying right at 12/center or slightly off to the side (like to the outside of the first belt loop)?

i shoot left hand. holster clip is just inboard of that first belt loop if you're going counter-clockwise from the button. that puts the holster just to the left of my junk.

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I have noticed lately that after carrying intermittently for a long time, and now mostly regularly with the new laws, that I find that I often almost forget that I'm carrying for extended periods of time.  Anyone else finding this?

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