Cheflife15 455 Posted January 6, 2023 I know I'm gunna catch some sh*t here and I'll take it in good spirits so flame away. I decided I want to slowly piece together my first ar15 or possibly an ar9. I jumped down the rabbit hole on youtube and spent many hours watching and trying to learn. It doesn't seem like It Is too difficult. Ultimately my question is, if I for some reason get fed up and decide I can't finish it properly, is there a ffl that will finish the build? I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point but I like having a back up plan. I've been slowly compiling a list of parts that I will post when it's complete and we can discuss and change things as fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted January 6, 2023 12 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said: I know I'm gunna catch some sh*t here and I'll take it in good spirits so flame away. I decided I want to slowly piece together my first ar15 or possibly an ar9. I jumped down the rabbit hole on youtube and spent many hours watching and trying to learn. It doesn't seem like It Is too difficult. Ultimately my question is, if I for some reason get fed up and decide I can't finish it properly, is there a ffl that will finish the build? I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point but I like having a back up plan. I've been slowly compiling a list of parts that I will post when it's complete and we can discuss and change things as fit. You'll finish it. You are correct, it isn't that difficult. You can always go the 'lite' build route and start with a complete upper (eliminates the need for a couple of specialized tools, and the headspacing should already be correct). Then just build the lower as you wish. If you have questions you'll get plenty of answers here, and YouTube has some great videos as you've already found. I don't doubt that you can find a gunsmith or FFL to finish the build for you, I just doubt that you'll find it necessary. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, 10X said: You'll finish it. You are correct, it isn't that difficult. You can always go the 'lite' build route and start with a complete upper (eliminates the need for a couple of specialized tools, and the headspacing should already be correct). Then just build the lower as you wish. If you have questions you'll get plenty of answers here, and YouTube has some great videos as you've already found. I don't doubt that you can find a gunsmith or FFL to finish the build for you, I just doubt that you'll find it necessary. This is 100 percent the route I would go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted January 6, 2023 Do you think you'll be building more than 1 eventually? If not, I can loan you some of the tools you'll need, for example: Armorer's wrench Roll pin punches Receiver block (so you can put it in a vice without damaging the finish) 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 6, 2023 18 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said: Do you think you'll be building more than 1 eventually? If not, I can loan you some of the tools you'll need, for example: Armorer's wrench Roll pin punches Receiver block (so you can put it in a vice without damaging the finish) That's very generous but honestly the more I shoot the more I enjoy the hobby. I can certainly see myself building another so I wouldn't mind picking those up but thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malice4you 627 Posted January 6, 2023 It is incredibly simple. Been years since I did mine, but it was very easy. Think first one was under an hour or two, going slow (lower only). I followed instructions from probably AR15.com but videos are probably even better A few things, you may want to put tape over certain areas so you don't mar surface. Believe especially doing bolt catch. Work inside a clear plastic bag. Think the glove chambers scientists work with dangerous chemicals in, on a 20 cent budget. When (and it is WHEN, NOT if) one of the springs or pins tries to go into low earth orbit, it will remain in a bag, not the other end of the house, somehow. Support the tabs for the trigger guard by putting a piece of wood under it so you cant snap the tab off while putting in a trigger guard roll pin. And buy a better guard that fills the gap better so those 2 tabs don't dig into your fingers. I would buy the flat stamped metal AR tool for castle nut over the 65-in-1 3D tools that are 3x the price (and don't work), unless you need the extra crap. Other tools, I had good enough examples already, so that'll depend on what you have 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Malice4you said: It is incredibly simple. Been years since I did mine, but it was very easy. Think first one was under an hour or two, going slow (lower only). I followed instructions from probably AR15.com but videos are probably even better A few things, you may want to put tape over certain areas so you don't mar surface. Believe especially doing bolt catch. Work inside a clear plastic bag. Think the glove chambers scientists work with dangerous chemicals in, on a 20 cent budget. When (and it is WHEN, NOT if) one of the springs or pins tries to go into low earth orbit, it will remain in a bag, not the other end of the house, somehow. Support the tabs for the trigger guard by putting a piece of wood under it so you cant snap the tab off while putting in a trigger guard roll pin. And buy a better guard that fills the gap better so those 2 tabs don't dig into your fingers. I would buy the flat stamped metal AR tool for castle nut over the 65-in-1 3D tools that are 3x the price (and don't work), unless you need the extra crap. Other tools, I had good enough examples already, so that'll depend on what you have I don't have many tools . I have a roll punch kit and hammer. Lots of good tips so far here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted January 7, 2023 If you can assemble an IKEA flat pack, you can build an AR pattern MSR. Buy extra springs and detents, or assemble springy parts in a clear plastic bag, so when they go "doyng" (they will) you won't be dead in the water. Having all the fancy tools in an armorer's kit will absolutely make things go smoother, but many of them are not essential. The part that needs the most attention is mounting the barrel, proper torque and head space is essential to keeping all your fingers. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 7, 2023 Adjust as needed here. None of this is set in stone. Looking to build a fun plinking gun and nothing more. I'm leaning towards a barrel with 1/8 twist, I like 14.7 with a muzzle break to get to 16 inch. Don't know what brand but I'd like a full upper. ($600-700) It seems like it's frivolous to waist alot of money on the receiver. Aero or spikes should do? $100-200 I'd like to try a light weight bolt carrier group as I'm reading it reduces recoil, but I have to research the gas systems and buffer springs to make it reliable? ($300) I was looking at ALG ACT trigger, and I'll buy a standard lower parts kit. $80 This is a newb question but how much difference in performance does a stock give you? I have a wilson combat protector and a daniel defense and I couldn't tell the difference in that regard. $70-100 Cost isn't a huge issue as I'll be buying parts sporadically. I have a baby on the way and it's easier to buy in small increments while keeping my savings in good shape. I'd like to keep the build around $1100 or less. Seems I should be able to build something pretty nice in that range. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted January 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said: Adjust as needed here. The first step in every build is deciding what the rifle's purpose in life will be. From there, you spec it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: The first step in every build is deciding what the rifle's purpose in life will be. From there, you spec it out. This will just be plinking, range toy, nothing of terrible importance. I don't shoot past 50 yards. Member of old bridge rifle pistol club. Honestly part of me also thinks maybe just go super budget to see if I enjoy/ can build it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,321 Posted January 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said: ALG ACT trigger I replaced all my mil-spec triggers with the ALG ACT triggers. They are great and made by Geissele. Get the extra springs and pins for the lower. You WILL lose one when it goes flying! Avoid putting the hammer spring in backwards. You will get light primer strikes if you do! You won't be sorry Chef....Just do it! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said: maybe just go super budget to see if I enjoy/ can build it. You can build it. Enjoying it is another story. It's okay to go budget, just don't go cheap. If you put everything together right, and cheap components start failing, you won't enjoy it. btw, unless you plan on shooting the heavies, 75gr-77gr, a 1:9 is all you need to spin up 55gr and 62gr boolits. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: btw, unless you plan on shooting the heavies, 75gr-77gr, a 1:9 is all you need to spin up 55gr and 62gr boolits. This is actually a great point. I have one rifle with 1:7 and one with 1:8. Finding ammo For those is usually more difficult or expensive. I'll do 1:9. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted January 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said: I have one rifle with 1:7 and one with 1:8. Is this your first AR, or AR build? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Cheflife15 said: This is actually a great point. I have one rifle with 1:7 and one with 1:8. Finding ammo For those is usually more difficult or expensive. I'll do 1:9. Finding ammo for 1:7 or 1:8 twist is expensive??? All of my 556 AR’s are 1:7, and they stabilize anything from the light varmint rounds all the way up to 77gr. HTBP rounds. I imagine 1:8 is similar…. I DO shoot M193 and M855 for the most part. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,321 Posted January 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, silverado427 said: As @silverado427said above, you don't need to limit yourself to .223 5.56. You can build an AR-15 for 9mm up to .50 Beowulf. The AR-10 platform really reaches out! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted January 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said: I imagine 1:8 is similar…. My 1:8 18'bbl SPR shoots .33 moa with PPU factory 75gr otm ,and just slightly better with my hand loads using Hornady 75gr match. M193 shoots like 2.5 moa. they are both stabilized bullets. M193 shoots just over an inch in my 1:9 16"bbl M4gery. Basically, if 3moa or better with 55gr up to 77gr is the bar, then a 1:7 will be great. If you want to dial in accuracy, you have to match the twist to the bullet weight. Match shooters are obsessed with twist and rifling. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted January 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: My 1:8 18'bbl SPR shoots .33 moa with PPU factory 75gr otm ,and just slightly better with my hand loads using Hornady 75gr match. M193 shoots like 2.5 moa. they are both stabilized bullets. M193 shoots just over an inch in my 1:9 16"bbl M4gery. Basically, if 3moa or better with 55gr up to 77gr is the bar, then a 1:7 will be great. If you want to dial in accuracy, you have to match the twist to the bullet weight. Match shooters are obsessed with twist and rifling. M193/M855 are not designed for precision, they are designed to get the job done. I’ve used both on hogs and paper, and they get the job done. 77gr OTM is a much more accurate round in my 1:7 guns, it’s gets the job done ‘mo accurately’. I mostly ‘hunt’ paper and hogs, so the added expense of 77gr OTM isn’t worth the cost, even though I have a ton of it stockpiled. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,675 Posted January 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said: M193/M855 are not designed for precision, they are designed to get the job done. I’ve used both on hogs and paper, and they get the job done. 77gr OTM is a much more accurate round in my 1:7 guns, it’s gets the job done ‘mo accurately’. I mostly ‘hunt’ paper and hogs, so the added expense of 77gr OTM isn’t worth the cost, even though I have a ton of it stockpiled. PSA AAC is making 77gr 5.56 otm match king ammo for $.75 a round Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted January 7, 2023 1 minute ago, silverado427 said: PSA AAC is making 77gr 5.56 otm match king ammo for $.75 a round Good to know. I have about 5K of 77otm in inventory, but just in case… 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,675 Posted January 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said: Good to know. I have about 5K of 77otm in inventory, but just in case… 5K of 77gr otm is a nice stash . AAC also is making 75rg 5.56 for $.65 a round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted January 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said: 77gr OTM is a much more accurate round in my 1:7 guns, As it should be, it is a premium round with a premium price. Most folks shoot cheap 55gr milsurp, basically range fodder. There is no need to torture a 55gr bullet with excessive stabilization. Rifling turns forward motion into spin, that force takes energy away from velocity and turns it into accuracy robbing heat. If 1:7 was perfect for every 5.56/.223 bullet weight, then the industry would be making only 1:7 bbls. Why not just go with the 1:6.5 that is used with the Valkyrie, it's the same diameter bullet. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 7, 2023 Edited, was answered Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 7, 2023 2 hours ago, silverado427 said: What's that big one on the top right? Is that the .50 beowolf. I had to Google what that even is. I'm not gunna lie ... that sounds cool. I was thinking of building an ar9 but it seems theyre alot more finicky and less forgiving when it comes to reliability? 4 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: Is this your first AR, or AR build? This is my first build. I have a Wilson combat protector and a daniel defense ddm4v7. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,321 Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Cheflife15 said: What's that big one on the top right? Is that the .50 beowolf. I had to Google what that even is. I'm not gunna lie ... that sounds cool. I was thinking of building an ar9 but it seems theyre alot more finicky and less forgiving when it comes to reliability? This is my first build. I have a Wilson combat protector and a daniel defense ddm4v7. Yes .50 beowulf. I even built one in 7.62x39 as shown in the 2nd pic. Let me just say that my AK-47 eats 7.62x39 without a hiccup. My AR-15 in 7.62x39 is very finicky! 7.62x39 surplus often has a very hard primer. Better with a heavier hammer and spring yet still not as reliable as the AK-47 with the same ammo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted January 7, 2023 7 hours ago, JohnnyB said: Yes .50 beowulf. I even built one in 7.62x39 as shown in the 2nd pic. Let me just say that my AK-47 eats 7.62x39 without a hiccup. My AR-15 in 7.62x39 is very finicky! 7.62x39 surplus often has a very hard primer. Better with a heavier hammer and spring yet still not as reliable as the AK-47 with the same ammo. Bad Reliability would drive me more nuts than anything else. How do you feel about Aero precision? I'm seeing lots of mixed reviews, with majority of them being positive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
My1stGlock 144 Posted January 7, 2023 13 hours ago, Cheflife15 said: This is actually a great point. I have one rifle with 1:7 and one with 1:8. Finding ammo For those is usually more difficult or expensive. I'll do 1:9. Shouldn’t be an issue I have 1:7, 1:8 and 1:9 barrels and they all take anything 5.56. I hear 1:8 is becoming more common? 50-100 yard shooting would not be a real issue on any of these types of barrels. As for keeping the build cheap I would also stick with 5.56/.223. Make sure it’s 5.56 which will shoot .223 or a .223 wylde. Just not a plain .223 unless that’s the round u only shoot.Gotta also factor the cost of ammo. If plinking throwing .25-.35 a round down range is cheaper than throwing .50-.75 range. lots of good ideas and suggestions just have to figure it out with us all chirping in yer ears lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,675 Posted January 7, 2023 I have no problems with my 7.62x39 ar's I shoot wolf poly and tula 154gr sp. runs like a fine watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites