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ATF finalizes rules for Stabilizing Braces

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7 minutes ago, FunGun said:

Done.  Hope others do the same.  On the Tech Ops website, I couldn’t find the letter from the NJ State Police saying the “other firearm” was legal in NJ.  Wondering if they recently removed it?

I noticed that many "others" manufacturers/distributors have taken down their "other" listings.

I reached out to my manufacturer (ACI) as well and they told me to check later. I'm sure people are still combing for all possible options.

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10 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

What's the cost of freedom? 

You have 2 options here. Cower over the new rules, get rid of your others and spend money modifying them... you cant sell them BTW. 

Or, call their bluff. 

Are well all going to just let the FATF roll all over our 2a rights? Especially over something with such ambiguity. 

big question is who wants to...or can afford to be the first test case.

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19 hours ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

I noticed that many "others" manufacturers/distributors have taken down their "other" listings.

I reached out to my manufacturer (ACI) as well and they told me to check later. I'm sure people are still combing for all possible options.

Yeah, Dark Storm took down the non-NFA listings and put up a blurb about pistol brace ruling.

You can still find the non-NFA offerings on their website via Google search or direct link. But they aren't selling them until this gets corrected.  I think the DSI and Troy offerings are more difficult. If you remove the brace, I don't think it becomes a pistol due to 12.5" barrel??  Does that make it still an SBR or an AOW with the brace removed? Or OTOH, does the FVG serve to bolster the "not designed to be fired from the shoulder" argument?  I would wait and see if this whole, poorly thought through ruling lasts the 120 days...

 

https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-typhoon-rifles/dark-storm-ds-15-non-nfa-firearm-typhoon-5.56-black/

 

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Just now, leahcim said:

If you remove the brace, I don't think it becomes a pistol due to 12.5" barrel??  Does that make it still an SBR or an AOW with the brace removed? Or OTOH, does the FVG serve to bolster the "not designed to be fired from the shoulder" argument?

The VFG makes it designed to be fired with two hands. A pistol, by definition, is designed to be fired with one hand. Therefore, your non-NFA Other did not become a pistol when you removed the brace, regardless of barrel length. There is no maximum length for a pistol barrel, BTW.

https://www.guns.com/news/2020/06/02/budget-buntline-heritage-rough-rider-16-inch

  • Informative 1

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On 1/17/2023 at 2:49 PM, JackDaWack said:

ATF "letters" are non binding and are meaningless.. anything the ATF puts out can completely override the last. 

lol, ATF calls up manufacture for shipments of banned firearms, tracks to FFL, asks FFL for sales records... 

ATF is standing at your door. 

Just standing outside, politely waiting for you to open the door and give them permission to search? That's not how the Three Letter govt Agencies roll.  I think they're coming in like an FBI/SWAT team after an insurrectionist.  Breaking down doors and crashing through windows at 0300.  So when everyone sees the video they will be mostly intimidated to turn in all their legal weapons

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19 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The VFG makes it designed to be fired with two hands. A pistol, by definition, is designed to be fired with one hand. Therefore, your non-NFA Other did not become a pistol when you removed the brace, regardless of barrel length. There is no maximum length for a pistol barrel, BTW.

https://www.guns.com/news/2020/06/02/budget-buntline-heritage-rough-rider-16-inch

Thanks! I was confused by the language on Dark Storm website "

  • It is not a PISTOL, as it has a barrel length of 12.5" and features a forward vertical grip, as it designed to be fired with two hands."

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1 hour ago, leahcim said:

So just removing the brace and FVG turns it into a legit HG, or does one also need to change the buffer tube?

If you take off the VFG it will become a handgun...a handgun deemed to be an assault handgun in NJ because it will weigh too much and have a barrel shroud.

  • Agree 2

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2 hours ago, FunGun said:

So 120 days to comply?  When does the 120 days start?

Right after you turn it in anonymously at a government run gun collection event with no questions asked.

  • Haha 1

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4 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The VFG makes it designed to be fired with two hands. A pistol, by definition, is designed to be fired with one hand. Therefore, your non-NFA Other did not become a pistol when you removed the brace, regardless of barrel length. There is no maximum length for a pistol barrel, BTW.

https://www.guns.com/news/2020/06/02/budget-buntline-heritage-rough-rider-16-inch

are we talking just removing the brace, or remove the brace and put something else? i kinda figured tht nothing else could be put in its place......

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7 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

are we talking just removing the brace, or remove the brace and put something else? i kinda figured tht nothing else could be put in its place......

Anything on the end that has as surface area could make it into an SBR.  For now, just remove the brace and don't put anything on it.  

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The ATF Q&A from Shot talked about constructive possession/intent (e.g. best to lose that SBA3 or lock it in a safe deposit box). Or change out the buffer tube to a pistol buffer tube that will not accept a stock or a brace

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9 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

If you do that, won't you then have an overweight NJ illegal AR pistol?


Designed to be held with two hands so can’t be a pistol.

I believe it is then an NFA AOW that is illegal in NJ.

A Non NFA Other has a minimum length requirement. 
If you took off the Brace you would have to add a longer barrel to meet minimum length. Or weld on a fake suppressor to extend it.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

are we talking just removing the brace, or remove the brace and put something else? i kinda figured tht nothing else could be put in its place......

I'm not talking about putting anything on in its place. That would open the can of worms as to what else might be legal - probably nothing of value.

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Taking off the brace does not make it shorter. The >26"OAL is measured from the end of the receiver extension to the barrel's tip w/o the FH. And taking off the brace does not change the non-NFA classification. You still need two hands to use it.

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11 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Taking off the brace does not make it shorter. The >26"OAL is measured from the end of the receiver extension to the barrel's tip w/o the FH. And taking off the brace does not change the non-NFA classification. You still need two hands to use it.

So sounds like removing the brace, and getting rid of it, and remove any optics, solves the problem.

  • Agree 1

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1 minute ago, leahcim said:

So sounds like removing the brace, and getting rid of it, and remove any optics, solves the problem.

I'm not sure about optics. I would say that that doesn't matter, because you can still cheek weld the extension.

ATF "suggests" changing the CAR extension to a pistol extension.

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21 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Taking off the brace does not make it shorter. The >26"OAL is measured from the end of the receiver extension to the barrel's tip w/o the FH. And taking off the brace does not change the non-NFA classification. You still need two hands to use it.

You're assuming an AR pattern firearm. On those you can keep the receiver extension because it is needed for the firearm to function. With an AK (or other) pattern firearm, that is not necessarily true.

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1 minute ago, Mr.Stu said:

You're assuming an AR pattern firearm. On those you can keep the receiver extension because it is needed for the firearm to function. With an AK (or other) pattern firearm, that is not necessarily true.

I agree.

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9 minutes ago, PK90 said:

I'm not sure about optics. I would say that that doesn't matter, because you can still cheek weld the extension.

ATF "suggests" changing the CAR extension to a pistol extension.

Only optics that have eye relief would get you in trouble.  Ie magnified optics (even an LVPO).  Red  Dot type optics should be OK.  

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