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leo-польд

Carry any gun you own, any comments on this?

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In my view, a secretary does not have the authority to rescind or overrule an order from a judge.

Unless I get a court order vacating my existing court order I'm going to adhere to it. It's no big deal for me right now as all my handguns are listed on my court order. When I get a new gun I'll find out what the attitude of the court is.

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8 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

In my view, a secretary does not have the authority to rescind or overrule an order from a judge.

Unless I get a court order vacating my existing court order I'm going to adhere to it. It's no big deal for me right now as all my handguns are listed on my court order. When I get a new gun I'll find out what the attitude of the court is.

We all do, question is what is recent in NJSA 2C:58-4? I personally own many other pistols which I wish to carry in addition to current two in my permit.

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59 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

We all do, question is what is recent in NJSA 2C:58-4? I personally own many other pistols which I wish to carry in addition to current two in my permit.

It bears repeating, the Ocean County Superior Court issued an order rescinding a previous order on my behalf. The original assignment judge listed sensitive places and the current assignment judge reversed that. It only took an email to the law clerk and a week later I had the new order. I realize that there is mass confusion with these judges and the way they issue. There is no continuity across counties but try asking for a rescind order with your court.

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58 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

We all do, question is what is recent in NJSA 2C:58-4? I personally own many other pistols which I wish to carry in addition to current two in my permit.

Nothing has changed IMO.

There was never a need/requirement for the courts to issue the silly orders about specific pistols...but they did, so the people who received them would be wise to follow.

As Stu said, unless there's something from my superior court (Morris) vacating the (silly) order that came with my permit, I'm going to adhere to the court order.  Given the current activity in the courts where the NJ2A groups are fighting the new Murphy legislation, I think the court order nonsense will be on the back-burner.

 

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1 hour ago, Mike77 said:

There have been no changes. You never needed to add firearms to your permit. This is there way of saying they fucked up! 

This isnt accurate. My order specifically says to add a weapon I must send the court proof of qual, proof of purchase, and proof of permit. I sent it in 6 weeks ago with no word.

As the previous post suggests, you CANNOT ignore an order. You can tey to vacate it.

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35 minutes ago, Parapig said:

This isnt accurate. My order specifically says to add a weapon I must send the court proof of qual, proof of purchase, and proof of permit. I sent it in 6 weeks ago with no word.

As the previous post suggests, you CANNOT ignore an order. You can tey to vacate it.

It IS accurate. It may have been the judges order, but it wasnt the law. The 2c law was always 1 permit for any gun. 

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So, now you might me be stoped in Somerset county by police and show your 50cal revolver :) and he might say - it is not in your court paper from the judge and you are felon because you are in Somerset driving now and it is required here ? :( You will say - I am from Ocean county? WTF

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14 minutes ago, Parapig said:

Oh okay thats good to know. I will tell the police Capt, the firearms clerk, the Judges Clerk, and the Judge that Mike77 said I dont have to follow a Judges order. Thank you for assistance. 

Not my fault you dont know the actual law vs a judges order. Doesnt take much of an IQ to look up the 2C law. But go ahead and feel free to use me to act like a child. 

 

But if you need me to show you. This is the law. It's not new. Never changed. It's always been this. But im sure you will just say this is the new law, bc it's obvious that's how you think. 

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns

 

2C:58-4. a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by subsection e. of N.J.S.2C:39-5. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

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 This is my email. I emailed the judge and received this in return.  I’m taking it as the judge wrote it and she sent it on his behalf. That’s good enough for me. 
 Now you can email, call, write a letter and send it through the mail. I don’t give a damn. You’ll get the same response. Or you can sit here and bitch and moan in the interwebs and not do a damn thing but wait for other people to do all the work for you. 

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16 minutes ago, Mike77 said:

Im wrong? Fee free to educate me then? Show me where 2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns, changed. Ill wait. 

NJ Administrative Code 13:54-2.4 

Bullet point#2

2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor;

 

You're welcome.  Gotta go, don]t have time to educate you all day

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3 minutes ago, Bailjumper said:

NJ Administrative Code 13:54-2.4 

Bullet point#2

2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor;

 

You're welcome.  Gotta go, don]t have time to educate you all day

Thank you. Proved my point. Doesnt say you can only carry said gun. The admin code is for APPLICATIONS. Not the permit. It's to show you qualify. It's not the 2c law, which law enforcement.... Enforces.

 

Nice try. 

Just now, Displaced Texan said:

Jesus, can’t we just be civil to one another? The infighting amongst one another on this site is getting annoying.

Sorry, dude joined 35mins ago, and this is his 1st post? Attack others. Nah. 

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2 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

Jesus, can’t we just be civil to one another? The infighting amongst one another on this site is getting annoying.

Maybe if he did it a civil way.... Tuck your tail? Thats how you introduce yourself? 

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Just now, Mike77 said:

Maybe if he did it a civil way.... Tuck your tail? Thats how you introduce yourself? 

Not pointing fingers at you specifically, I’m referring to everyone. We should be working together to sort through the shit, not bashing each other. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

Jesus, can’t we just be civil to one another? The infighting amongst one another on this site is getting annoying.

Agree.

Particularly when neither side of the argument negates what the opposite side is saying.

TWO things can be true at the same time.

1 - The law does not require that only carry the gun(s) you qualified with.  One permit covers all.

2 - If you have a permit with an accompanying court order you should definitely follow the directions of the order.  If you disagree with them or don't wish to abide by them you'd be best served to work that out with the court.

For practical purposes they're both moot points until you encounter the police.  If you do encounter the police it's best that you have already squared things away and have appropriate documentation.

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Realizing we live in a state that has demonstrated a zeal for its "gotcha" laws, safest to try and get a rescind order from the court. While you wait, carry what's on your permit and/or court order. No one wants to be the posterboy for some prosecutor doing his job and saving us from scary guns.

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4 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Agree.

Particularly when neither side of the argument negates what the opposite side is saying.

TWO things can be true at the same time.

1 - The law does not require that only carry the gun(s) you qualified with.  One permit covers all.

2 - If you have a permit with an accompanying court order you should definitely follow the directions of the order.  If you disagree with them or don't wish to abide by them you'd be best served to work that out with the court.

For practical purposes they're both moot points until you encounter the police.  If you do encounter the police it's best that you have already squared things away and have appropriate documentation.

If you follow the thread the issue isnt what the law is now. The question is what the law was pre-Dec 22. Those that have a court order from a judge stating the firearms they are allowed to carry can not just ignore it. The order must be vacated first. 

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Don't let this thread devolve, pls! No insulting other posters, etc. Let's strive to debate like gentlemen and ladies (as politically incorrect as that might sound these days ;)).  Thx!

Besides... honestly, it seems these are GOOD DAYS for the 2A in NJ. Why squabble - now of all times? Of course, some of these issues ARE confusing and will take time to iron out. In the meantime, pls be patient.

And if you've still got a bit of pent-up energy, here's a suggestion... channel it into writing out some checks to the 2A orgs behind these current cases.  Now that they have some real "ammo" (thanks to Bruen), they're leveraging it really well and doing a bang-up job! :good:

 

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As my last post. I would like to leave this link here for Mike77. Hey Mike, you give the worst legal advice. Give a listen to Evan Nappen and then let everyone in the thread know how wrong you were. If you have a court order with your PTC, you MUST follow that order.

REGARDLESS of the legal advice Mike gives you

https://gun.lawyer/episode-117-size-matters-and-other-lies-cops-tell/

 

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I received this from my PD today...even though I handed mine in on 11/29......

If you are receiving this letter, you have been affected by the latest change in the Application Process for a Permit to Carry a Handgun in the State of NJ.  This is because your application was sent (or about to be sent) to the Morris County Superior Court for approval on 12/22/22 or later.  On 12/22/22, with little notice to municipalities, the Morris County Superior Court stopped accepting applications in anticipation of sending the entire process to the municipalities.  Nearly a month later the process has been placed in the hands of municipalities.

 

… so what does this mean to me?  The state has made changes to the process.

Pro:

  • The Chester Police Department processing your permit in house will be far more streamlined than the previous ten to twelve week(on average) return time for permits sent to them for approval
  • Gone is the judicial order stating which handguns you qualified with to be carried along with your permit.  Now you may carry ANY handgun that you legally own and no longer have to carry a judicial order(letter from the court) with you any time you carry.

Con:

  • You’ve spent the time to already begin the process and my apologies for the delays

The good news is the new changes in the process can be made and your original application can be modified to fulfill the requirements rather than start over from the beginning.  Please contact us to set up an appointment to come and speak with me about the changes at your earliest convenience.  Thank you in advance for your continued patience in this process.

 

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57 minutes ago, dman2112 said:

so what does this mean to me?  The state has made changes to the process.

It sounds like your Chief LEO will let you amend your application and apply under the new rules which might get you your permit a little faster than the 154 total days and counting that my PD and the Morris Co court have taken so far. On the downside you will probably have to submit a fourth reference and an additional $150.

This is just my guess based on the letter you recieved.

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