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Securing handgun when visiting places that do not allow HG inside?

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If you use a pistol safe that is secured inside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, where do you store the magazine(s)?  Can the magazines be inside the safe with the handgun but not inserted into the handgun?  Can a magazine be inside the gun?  One in the chamber (assuming gun is inside a holster in the safe)?  

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A magazine is not a restricted item, so long as it doesn't hold more than 10 rounds.

I have a neomag holder in my left front pocket and I usually don't bother removing the magazine when I go disarmed to restricted places such as my kid's school.

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Meanwhile In Livingston schools were put on lockdown because an empty pistol mag was found in the parking lot. 

Quote

 

A police spokesperson said Tuesday that the item was an unloaded magazine from a handgun. A magazine feeds rounds of ammunition into a firearm's chamber during shooting.

The affected schools were Livingston High School and Heritage Middle School.

"An item associated with a weapon was accidentally kicked out of a car this morning at Heritage Middle School," Police Chief Gary Marshuetz and Superintendent of Schools Matthew Block in a statement last Wednesday. "A custodian discovered the item as he picked up trash outside. The item was turned in to the administration, who immediately called the Livingston Police Department and initiated a lockdown."

Police said Wednesday that there was no evidence of any intention to bring a weapon into the school.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/device-that-caused-lockdown-at-2-livingston-schools-revealed/ar-AA17Lx5t

 

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So, what exactly are the storage requirements when leaving the gun in car due to sensitive places limitations?  Can it be locked up in a safe in the car fully loaded?  I for one, have no desire to load And unload a pistol in the car or standing outside by the trunk.

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41 minutes ago, ESB said:

That's basically what I was getting at.  Can the gun be loaded with one in the chamber inside the gun safe in your locked car while you are visiting a restricted place?  

 

I see nothing in the new (or existing) legislation that addresses your specific question.

I personally drop the magazine and clear the gun and put both in the lockbox separately.

I drive a pickup so nobody can tell what i'm doing. 

I reverse the process when I get in the vehicle.

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IANAL, and AFAIK there are no laws or requirements around how a firearm is to be stored, which is what is effectively happening here. 

Further more, in a different thread, @High Exposure referenced avoiding unnecessary administrative handling of your firearm, to minimize risk.

That said, it makes common sense that your approach should be: remove your handgun from your body, have it remain in the holster if possible, and lock the whole thing up "as is" in a secure safe in your vehicle.

But then again we're dealing with NJ, and WTFRK?

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24 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said:

The answer is in the law.  See attachment.  Starting on page 26, line 38 through page 27, line 13.  This section of the law was not blocked by the TRO and is still in effect.

final-nj-anti-carry-law-passed-12-22-22.PDF 661.05 kB · 0 downloads

Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections a. and b. of38
this section, the holder of a valid and lawfully issued permit to carry39
under N.J.S.2C:58-4 who is otherwise prohibited under this section40
from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a41
prohibited location specified in subsection a. of this section shall be42
permitted to:43

(1) transport a concealed handgun or ammunition within a44
vehicle into or out of the parking area, provided that the handgun is45
unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case,46
gunbox, or locked unloaded in the trunk or storage area of the47
vehicle;48

(2) store a handgun or ammunition within a locked lock box and1
out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area;2

(3) transport a concealed handgun in the immediate area3
surrounding their vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only4
for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving the handgun within a5
locked lock box in the vehicle’s trunk or other place inside the6
vehicle that is out of plain view; and7

(4) transport a concealed handgun between a vehicle parked8
within a prohibited parking lot area and a place other than a9
prohibited place enumerated in subsection a. of this section,10
provided that the person immediately leaves the parking lot area11
and does not enter into or on the grounds of the prohibited place12
with the handgun.13

d. The holder of a valid and lawfully issued permit to carry14
under N.J.S.2C:58-4 shall not be in violation of subsection a. of this15
section while the holder is traveling along a public right-of-way that16
touches or crosses any of the places enumerated in subsection a. of17
this section if the concealed handgun is carried on their person in18
accordance with the provisions of this act or is being transported in19
a vehicle by the permit holder in accordance with all other20
applicable provisions of law

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#1 does say unloaded though...  I also see this..


(2) A holder of a valid and lawfully issued permit to carry a30
handgun shall not leave a handgun outside of their immediate31
possession or control within a parked vehicle, unless the handgun is32
unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, or33
gunbox, and is not visible from outside of the vehicle, or is locked34
unloaded in the trunk or storage area of the vehicle.35

A violation of paragraph (1) or (2) of this subsection is a crime36
of the fourth degree.37

 

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Not sure the quoted law applies to regular storage before entering a sensitive place.  It references "prohibited parking" areas which isn't exactly what the OP is asking about.

For me, as well, I don't know of many prohibited parking lots.  I'm thinking along the lines of the doctors office or the post office, both in strip mall type settings.  The ultimate destination is not allowed as a sensitive location.  Under the TRO, the parking lot, however, is not a prohibited parking area.

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31 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

#1 does say unloaded though...  I also see this..


(2) A holder of a valid and lawfully issued permit to carry a30
handgun shall not leave a handgun outside of their immediate31
possession or control within a parked vehicle, unless the handgun is32
unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, or33
gunbox, and is not visible from outside of the vehicle, or is locked34
unloaded in the trunk or storage area of the vehicle.35

A violation of paragraph (1) or (2) of this subsection is a crime36
of the fourth degree.37

 

Not a lawyer but....

The section above is from section a. 

The section I attached and  that 124gr9mm posted starts with "Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections a. and b".  Notwithstanding means "in spite of".  So...  In spite of the restrictions in A and B, you are still allowed to do the stuff in C even if the stuff in C seems to contradict A and B.

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1 hour ago, Carolina Native said:

Not sure the quoted law applies to regular storage before entering a sensitive place.  It references "prohibited parking" areas which isn't exactly what the OP is asking about.

For me, as well, I don't know of many prohibited parking lots.  I'm thinking along the lines of the doctors office or the post office, both in strip mall type settings.  The ultimate destination is not allowed as a sensitive location.  Under the TRO, the parking lot, however, is not a prohibited parking area.

I think the parking areas they are referencing are the areas connected to prohibited places...hence the reason to unload your gun and leave it in the car before you go in.  Don't forget that these laws are meant to be vague and misleading...and that is exactly what they are. FJD FPM FJB

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As the laws were written, there was no carrying in a car, as it was a sensitive place in and of itself.  That's resulting in confusion and ambiguity about what to do now. 

So,  absent needed guidance, I purchased a small biometric gun safe.  It has a cable attached to the seat frame and fits under the driver's seat from behind.  

My holsters are not the easiest to get on or off, so it's only the pistol that's removed and locked up.  I leave it fully loaded.  I really don't want to be unloading and loading in the car.  If an accidental discharge ever happens, that's the most likely way it would occur, so I'm just not doing it.

How's everyone else handling this when needing to leave it in the car?

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2 hours ago, Tunaman said:

The way I read it is that you cant leave it unattended and loaded in the car.  I dont know why anyone would leave a loaded gun in the car.  Just my opinion...

Two things.  As i mentioned earlier, the statute refers to a "prohibited parking lot" in multiple spots.  Most sensitive places I travel to don't translate into a "prohibited parking lot".   Admittedly, this isn't all that clear.  We can hope they clean that up after the court cases finishes up.

Beyond that, though, I'm thinking general safety against any negligent or accidental discharge.  I've had over 200 hours of live tactical training, including threat engagement from inside a vehicle.  That training, inside a vehicle that is, was the most stressful, dangerous place to be handling a pistol.  That doesn't make me an expert, but it certainly influences my decision making.

The least administrative handling, the better.  Unloading and loading inside a car is one of, if not the most risky place to do so.  For me, avoiding that far outweighs the negatives of having it locked up, loaded in safe, and attached to the car by a cable and out of sight.  I haven't lived anywhere other than NJ as an adult, but my cursory searches of other locations suggest that most probably lock it up loaded in a safe under the seat just like that when leaving it in a car.    As to any negatives of doing that, I'm not even certain what the negatives would be.  I'm curious what you believe those negatives might be. And doing any of this standing by the trunk just wouldn't be discreet and would invites unnecessary trouble.

Last, I live where any concern of a daytime car break in is non-existent.  Maybe I'd have a different opinion if living somewhere else.

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36 minutes ago, Carolina Native said:

Two things.  As i mentioned earlier, the statute refers to a "prohibited parking lot" in multiple spots.  Most sensitive places I travel to don't translate into a "prohibited parking lot".   Admittedly, this isn't all that clear.  We can hope they clean that up after the court cases finishes up.

Beyond that, though, I'm thinking general safety against any negligent or accidental discharge.  I've had over 200 hours of live tactical training, including threat engagement from inside a vehicle.  That training, inside a vehicle that is, was the most stressful, dangerous place to be handling a pistol.  That doesn't make me an expert, but it certainly influences my decision making.

The least administrative handling, the better.  Unloading and loading inside a car is one of, if not the most risky place to do so.  For me, avoiding that far outweighs the negatives of having it locked up, loaded in safe, and attached to the car by a cable and out of sight.  I haven't lived anywhere other than NJ as an adult, but my cursory searches of other locations suggest that most probably lock it up loaded in a safe under the seat just like that when leaving it in a car.    As to any negatives of doing that, I'm not even certain what the negatives would be.  I'm curious what you believe those negatives might be. And doing any of this standing by the trunk just wouldn't be discreet and would invites unnecessary trouble.

Last, I live where any concern of a daytime car break in is non-existent.  Maybe I'd have a different opinion if living somewhere else.

The negative i see would be having your car stolen and some thug gets away with one of my prized possessions...and loaded too.  I cannot bring myself to leave any firearm anywhere where I am not in complete control of it...except the safe.

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1 hour ago, Tunaman said:

The negative i see would be having your car stolen and some thug gets away with one of my prized possessions...and loaded too.  I cannot bring myself to leave any firearm anywhere where I am not in complete control of it...except the safe.

These are the decisions people have to make for themselves.

If I need to pick my wife up after her dental surgery next week I can either go without carrying the entire time, or put the gun in the lockbox for 10 minutes in the parking lot at the dentist office.

Either decision is fine.

You may leave your pistol home in that scenario while others may not.

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Well...like I said.  To each his own in interpreting the law.  I read it as saying you cant let it out of your possession and leave it loaded.  I am not going to take mine off at all if I can help it.  Your mileage may vary.

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On 3/9/2023 at 11:13 AM, Tunaman said:

The negative i see would be having your car stolen and some thug gets away with one of my prized possessions...and loaded too.  I cannot bring myself to leave any firearm anywhere where I am not in complete control of it...except the safe.

What about in a handgun safe that is cabled to the car?  That is what we are talking about here.  Ie, not leaving it loaded just in the glove box or wrapped up in a towel under the seat. 

Securely stored in a metal handgun safe that has a safety cable securely mounted to the car?  

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I bought a couple of small lockbox-style safes and they are a royal pain to access inside the car. One car has a decent amount of space but there are cables and crap all over the place. I still haven't tried in the other car but I am thinking it won't work as the seat lever is a smidge too low.

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AINIRO Portable Gun Safes for Pistols - Gun Safe with Built-in Handle, Biometric Gun Safe for Handgun with Fingerprint, Keypad and RFID Card, Pistol Safe for Truck, Travel, Beside Nightstand, Drawer https://a.co/d/42XpotE

Here's the one I got.  It is 8 x 11 x 3.  Even for my low slung, sporty two door coup, it works.  I wish the cable were a little longer, though.

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3 hours ago, ALAN553 said:

I suppose you could put a cable through the gun and around the seat rail and just lock it and put it under the seat, in with jack or spare storage, take the mag with you or put it someplace else in the car?

Interesting idea!

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On 3/10/2023 at 9:49 AM, Carolina Native said:

AINIRO Portable Gun Safes for Pistols - Gun Safe with Built-in Handle, Biometric Gun Safe for Handgun with Fingerprint, Keypad and RFID Card, Pistol Safe for Truck, Travel, Beside Nightstand, Drawer https://a.co/d/42XpotE

Here's the one I got.  It is 8 x 11 x 3.  Even for my low slung, sporty two door coup, it works.  I wish the cable were a little longer, though.

My car has a lockable center console large enough to store a handgun.  I am not certain if that would comply with the law.  It looks as though this law was rammed through in haste like a similar one in NY State.  It's the administrative handling in the small space of a vehicle that bothers me.  Before I retired, I was carrying a handgun in the cockpit of the aircraft of a major air carrier.  (BTW, we were trained by the Air Marshal Service)  It was never removed from the holster when moving it from my hip to another location for the same reason.  In the 20 or so years since that has been authorized, there has been one accidental discharge, and I don't believe it took place in the aircraft.  Unfortunately, the law has been written by the people who don't want us to carry.  Thanks for the url for the gun safe; I do need a new one. 

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There are a lot of cheap, ineffective gun boxes out there. I watch the Lockpicking Lawyer youtube channel. LPL is a very skilled picker, but he also looks for bypasses and other ways to open locks. The only one that he has not been totally scathing about appears to be the Hornady TriPoint gun box. For him to give it credit at all is pretty good. Yes he opened it, but he opens literally everything.

I got one of these for each vehicle and they do seem pretty solid.

 

I don't know who said it first, but locks only serve to keep honest people honest.

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I'm reluctant to start a new thread on this, but I'm wondering if I need a dedicated lock box for my car, or if it would be sufficient to lock my holstered handgun in my center console or in my glove box, both of which are lockable.  I suppose there are two considerations:  1. Complying with the confusing law, and 2. Keeping bad guys from getting guns.

The last time my car was broken into was around 40 years ago when my cassette player was stolen, so that's probably not much of a concern.  It's more that pesky legal requirement that has me concerned. 

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