Lawnmower2021 423 Posted March 6, 2023 So, I'm right-handed, left-eye dominant. I've been trying with both eyes lately, as I find the conscious effort to shut one eye can be distracting. I dry fire practice and I feel my grip and trigger pull are improving. However, my groups are getting progressively worse. I can still hit a competition circle within 25 yards. So, curious what thoughts or advice you all have. Can I still attain precision with both eyes open? I've been trying to still focus on the front sight; should I focus on the target instead? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted March 6, 2023 The ability to shoot both eye open varies from person to person. If you are strongly dominant one side or the other it is easier than someone who has almost equal dominance. I am training myself to be target focused, rather than front sight focused. Front sight focus is great for people still learning how to press the trigger without moving the gun. Once that skill is mastered, target focus is faster, and more natural if facing a threat, rather than just a target. When you perceive a threat you will naturally focus on that threat - often to the point of tunnel vision which is not great if there is more than one threat. In action competition shooting, target focus is also faster when it comes to target transitions. I'm also venturing into carry-optics divisions, and using an RDS should be target focused and both eyes open all the time. Are you using irons or optics? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lawnmower2021 423 Posted March 6, 2023 Thanks for the feedback! Definitely agreed that focusing on the target is more natural. Like with shotgun shooting. 39 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said: Are you using irons or optics? Bit of both. With red dots I definitely focus on the target with some success. I'll see what happens focusing on the target with irons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted March 6, 2023 When I started shooting pistols in 2003 I would close my non-shooting eye for anything 7 yards or further. Within a few years I was keeping both eyes open out to 25. Now, I find myself keeping both eyes open always even out to 50 yards and beyond, regardless of irons or RDS. I am extremely target focused with a RDS, still working target focus with irons but am getting there - I just rarely shoot pistol irons anymore. I attribute my “both eyes open/target focused” success to shooting a lot of carbines with RDS mounted while training speed and accuracy between 25 and 50 yards. The necessary techniques to be proficient there require both eyes open and a target focus. These TTPs naturally translated to my pistol shooting (this was before RDS on pistols was common) without me even having to think about it. The modern move to pistol RDS being so common has also seriously strengthened this tendency. I have also found that shooting steel matches, especially knock down, accelerates the process, IMO. The instant feedback of the ring of the steel, and seeing the target move/fall through the sights reinforces the proper application of the technique faster than walking down range and trying to count holes in paper and trying to remember what you saw sight/target wise when you broke the shot. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted March 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Lawnmower2021 said: Thanks for the feedback! Definitely agreed that focusing on the target is more natural. Like with shotgun shooting. Bit of both. With red dots I definitely focus on the target with some success. I'll see what happens focusing on the target with irons. If your iron sights are the 3 dot variety, painted, tritium or fiber optic, try covering the dots on the rear sight with a small piece of black tape or whatever is handy. This will help identify the front sight in the unavoidable double image effect of keeping both eyes open and focusing on the target. You will only have 2 dots visible, rather than up to 6. I don't subscribe to the night sight doctrine, so all my guns that I use regularly have Dawson Precision sights with a red fiber front and a plain black rear. My carry guns have white lights mounted on them. If I turn on the light in a low/no light situation the tritium is washed out completely and is therefore without purpose. The fiber doesn't do anything for me in low light either, but it is far superior in normal lighting. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted March 6, 2023 I'm coming from a precision pistol background...police revolver, bullseye and international styles mostly. And I'm also right handed, left eye dominant. It's helpful to keep both eyes open for several reasons, one of which is that if you close one eye, it dilates slightly, and since the eyes are used to working in pairs the open eye will also dilate slightly, which will reduce your visual acuity a little. That doesn't mean you need to have both eyes looking downrange, though, if that is difficult for you. A blinder that lets light through is a common solution. You can buy clip-on translucent binders, but a strip of cellophane tape over the lens of your shooting glasses on the non-shooting eye side works great as well. I use one of those options for precision events. I don't shoot action events nearly as much as Mr. Stu, but when I do I just omit the blinder, so I can better see the target array and when shooting with both hands or weak-hand-only the gun just naturally comes up in front of my dominant left eye anyway. If you are shooting precision events with iron sights, it's essential to keep your focus on the sights, specifically the front sight. Sight alignment errors are much worse than being slightly off target with correctly aligned sights. You can read about angular shift error vs. parallel shift error here: https://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter2.htm. If you do the math, a 1/100" inch sight alignment error (if a 6" sight radius) is as bad as a 1.5" error in point of aim at a target 25 yards away. 1 2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted March 6, 2023 3 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: If your iron sights are the 3 dot variety, painted, tritium or fiber optic, try covering the dots on the rear sight with a small piece of black tape or whatever is handy. This will help identify the front sight in the unavoidable double image effect of keeping both eyes open and focusing on the target. You will only have 2 dots visible, rather than up to 6. Using a black sharpie to darken them significantly helps as well here. If shooting a traditional iron sight sight package, do not use the dots for aiming. They are only for quick reference and not meant to be lined up for precision shooting. Make sure you are using the crisp outline of the front sight centered horizontally and the top is vertically even in the notch of the rear sight. Even with both eyes open and target fixed you can accomplish this to some degree (you lose come of the desired crispness, but it works). 3 hours ago, Mr.Stu said: I don't subscribe to the night sight doctrine, so all my guns that I use regularly have Dawson Precision sights with a red fiber front and a plain black rear. My carry guns have white lights mounted on them. If I turn on the light in a low/no light situation the tritium is washed out completely and is therefore without purpose. The fiber doesn't do anything for me in low light either, but it is far superior in normal lighting. Yes. Tritium/glowing Night sights have little to no use in defensive shooting. If you need night sights to align your sight package, you probably can’t see your target well enough to ID as friend or foe - so you shouldn’t be shooting. If you have enough light to IFF, you don’t need the night sights. Yes, there are certain environmental conditions that may make night sights useful (for example the 10-15 minutes twice daily as dusk/dawn where the lighting conditions are balanced just right for the weather ) but they are pretty rare and short lived. A WML on the pistol solves all IFF issues in all lighting conditions - photopic, mesopic, and scotopic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,916 Posted March 6, 2023 2 hours ago, High Exposure said: photopic, mesopic, and scotopic Darn you! That's three google searches you made me do 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted March 7, 2023 What changed me from closing one eye to both eyes open, was taking some tactical pistol classes..... Didnt even realize it, but when I was put under stress during the courses..... i completely forgot to close that one eye..... without thought.... I was shooting with both eyes open, which is exactly what would happen in a real life defense situation.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 243 Posted March 7, 2023 I naturally close my left eye often and have to make the conscious effort to keep them both open. It doesn't affect my accuracy too much though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites