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Amending Permit Not To Show Specific Gun To Carry

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36 minutes ago, ALAN553 said:

Morris County,  I received my permit and court order the beginning of February...I was just going through some papers they gave me at the time...instructions for adding  additional firearms: 

just write to the court, send them proof of ownership, i.e P2P documents from sale, no need to qualify with the gun and they will amend the court order.  

I plan to do this next week.  I'll update if I get a response.

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On 4/2/2023 at 11:54 AM, ALAN553 said:

A prior court order stands.  If you applied early in Morris County you have to live with order, you can add other guns but I assume you would have to qualify with them and submit documents and it will be added to order.  Only way around it is to go through the process again and pay new fees to get police dept issued permit.  Or just wait out the two years and see where we are then. 

This.  

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38 minutes ago, ESB said:

This.  

I was wrong....I just looked through paperwork i received when i got permit with instructions for adding firearms, submit in a letter to the court, no emails, proof of ownership, no qualifications needed requesting additional firearms be added to order......did not realize it was that easy....no qualifications necessary....

37 minutes ago, ESB said:

This.  

 

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Hunterdon wants Qual and proof of ownership, but will ammend the court order. 

But your answer to the actual question on how to get a permit that does not show specific guns to carry is to go through the process again and have the police department do the entire thing is also what my local PD told me.    

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35 minutes ago, ESB said:

Hunterdon wants Qual and proof of ownership, but will ammend the court order. 

But your answer to the actual question on how to get a permit that does not show specific guns to carry is to go through the process again and have the police department do the entire thing is also what my local PD told me.    

I know someone who got very recent through local pd and it still has guns qualified with

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3 hours ago, Vdep217 said:

I know someone who got very recent through local pd and it still has guns qualified with

Did the PD list the guns on the PTC or Court Order or just ask for the list of guns they qualified with?  I'm not sure how PD would list the guns since they can't issue a court order.    

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11 minutes ago, ESB said:

Did the PD list the guns on the PTC or Court Order or just ask for the list of guns they qualified with?  I'm not sure how PD would list the guns since they can't issue a court order.    

No court order it's just on the permit.  Hus looks identical to mine.  Mine has no restrictions checked but qualified guns listed.   Mine was from the court hus is local pd.  I did not get a court order

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Just added my Sig365 to the court order for carry. Somerset County did amend the court order but required a new certified qual form for that firearm and a copy of the pistol permit to prove ownership. They were nice about it, went by the book but that was OK by me. They turned my request around in less than two weeks.

Next time we renew we will should be able to qualify with a full size pistol instead of the micro compact pistols that many of us carry. I am told at the range that new shooters are having trouble qualifying with small compact pistols that are better suited for concealed carry.

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4 hours ago, DAHL said:

Just added my Sig365 to the court order for carry. Somerset County did amend the court order but required a new certified qual form for that firearm and a copy of the pistol permit to prove ownership. They were nice about it, went by the book but that was OK by me. They turned my request around in less than two weeks.

Next time we renew we will should be able to qualify with a full size pistol instead of the micro compact pistols that many of us carry. I am told at the range that new shooters are having trouble qualifying with small compact pistols that are better suited for concealed carry.

Glad to hear you were successful.

Did you take care of things via e-mail, or did you use regular mail to get the information to the court?

My concern with regular mail is that it's easy for things to get lost in the shuffle and sit on people's desks for a while before any action is taken.

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On 4/4/2023 at 12:19 PM, ALAN553 said:

I was wrong....I just looked through paperwork i received when i got permit with instructions for adding firearms, submit in a letter to the court, no emails, proof of ownership, no qualifications needed requesting additional firearms be added to order......did not realize it was that easy....no qualifications necessary....

 

Who was your Judge? I received my permit from Morris Co in January as well with a court order and would like to add some additional handguns to the list.

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4 hours ago, brucin said:

Who was your Judge? I received my permit from Morris Co in January as well with a court order and would like to add some additional handguns to the list.

 

just write a letter to requesting additional handguns, send proof of ownership, make model, serial number, superior court of NJ-criminal division..box 910, Morristown, 07963

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1 hour ago, ALAN553 said:

 

just write a letter to requesting additional handguns, send proof of ownership, make model, serial number, superior court of NJ-criminal division..box 910, Morristown, 07963

Thanks I'll give that a shot.

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https://www.njcourts.gov/notices/supplement-directive-14-22-criminal-gun-permit-procedures-requests-amend-permits-carry

I will be sending my request in today regardless. They work for us so I don't give a damn if I waste their time.

 

 

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2 hours ago, brucin said:

https://www.njcourts.gov/notices/supplement-directive-14-22-criminal-gun-permit-procedures-requests-amend-permits-carry

I will be sending my request in today regardless. They work for us so I don't give a damn if I waste their time.

 

 

I called them this morning on the number provided in the link. I had a nice conversation with Jessica and offered to send a copy of my court order that includes the instructions on how to amend a permit, which this directive says to now ignore. She is going to have someone follow up with me. Below is the email I sent:

 

Quote

Good morning,

 
I was just speaking to Jessica regarding the Supplement to Directive #14-22. This email is a follow up with a copy of my court order attached for reference.
 
The court order I was issued with my permit to carry a handgun has explicit and clear instructions on how to add handguns to the court order (see attached, penultimate paragraph, last page). I used the described process once before without any problem.
 
The issue I have is that the supplement to Directive #14-22 instructs the Superior Court to disregard its own order. This doesn't seem proper and places the burden on me as the permit holder to correct it.
 
The alternative offered is for me to reapply for a new permit, with all the exorbitant fees including the inflated application fee (that is currently being challenged in Federal Court), as well as re-qualifying with the handgun(s) I intend to carry and getting fingerprinted yet again which incur significant costs as well. This is clearly unfair when I have already completed all the requirements and paid all the fees for a permit that still has almost a year and a half before it expires.
 
What makes this particularly galling is that when my permit was being considered by the court I wrote to the court (attached) pointing out that the statute at the time only allowed the court to restrict the permit based on types of handgun, not specific handgun(s). I had qualified with both types of handgun, namely a pistol and a revolver, so the court could have restricted my permit to these types. Unfortunately, the court chose to go beyond the limits in the statute and listed specific handguns and now we have this mess before us.
 
I can understand the desire for the courts to no longer be involved in the issuance or amendment of permits, but a this is a problem of the courts' own making. Simply issuing a statement that the court will ignore its own order places a significant burden on the permit holder and is clearly unfair. The simplest solution I can imagine is for the courts to reissue the court order removing both the restrictions and the instructions on how to amend the restrictions.
 
I anticipate your response.
 
With respect,
 
Stuart Gepp

 

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My guess is the courts are just going to ignore this going forward just like they ignored the time frame to process the permits.

This could have easily been resolved if the courts had just issued a directive voiding all previous court orders but this is NJ and they want to make things as difficult and as expensive as possible.

Therefore every permit holder who has a court order should send in a request to have the order amended. Give them a bunch of paperwork to process.

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16 hours ago, brucin said:

My guess is the courts are just going to ignore this going forward just like they ignored the time frame to process the permits.

This could have easily been resolved if the courts had just issued a directive voiding all previous court orders but this is NJ and they want to make things as difficult and as expensive as possible.

Therefore every permit holder who has a court order should send in a request to have the order amended. Give them a bunch of paperwork to process.

This is New Jersey.  "They" don't want you to have firearms, let alone carry them.  "They" don't want this to be easy or efficient.

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On 4/11/2023 at 7:24 AM, brucin said:

https://www.njcourts.gov/notices/supplement-directive-14-22-criminal-gun-permit-procedures-requests-amend-permits-carry

I will be sending my request in today regardless. They work for us so I don't give a damn if I waste their time.

 

 

This part caught my eye:
Applicants requesting to remove any restriction from a permit previously issued by the courts may choose to appeal to a higher court.
I made a request tonight asking how I can get this started. If I can do it via email I’ll do it. Maybe some sympathetic judge above the county superior court will send out a rescind order. Ryan did it in Ocean County for the sensitive places. It took one email and I had the rescind in one week. We’ll see what they say.

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On 4/13/2023 at 9:44 PM, Moutinas said:

This part caught my eye:
Applicants requesting to remove any restriction from a permit previously issued by the courts may choose to appeal to a higher court.
I made a request tonight asking how I can get this started. If I can do it via email I’ll do it. Maybe some sympathetic judge above the county superior court will send out a rescind order. Ryan did it in Ocean County for the sensitive places. It took one email and I had the rescind in one week. We’ll see what they say.

Ryan may have rescinded the CO, but did he rescind anyone's "qualified handgun" list on the permit?

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So if I’m tracking…. those with the permit are required to carry the paper permit (larger than card slots requiring a special holder) their original multi page court order (8.5”X11” paper), and any additional court documents rescind letters etc.. Jesus h Christ you guys need a binder and backpack for your documents or for the more tactically minded lol

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3 hours ago, pjd832 said:

their original multi page court order (8.5”X11” paper), and any additional court documents rescind letters etc.. J

Mine says I must carry a copy of this order. There is no mention of what size the copy must be so I reduced it down to credit card size. You can read it with a good magnifying glass. I also have a digital copy on my phone.

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Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since I sent a letter to the court to add an additional handgun to my permit. It would be nice if they respond in some way.

EDIT Realized I forgot to pick up my mail yesterday and went just now. Letter from the court advising me to apply for a new permit with my local PD

It's also 2 weeks since I inquired with my local PD as to how they would go about adding an additional handgun. No response from them either. My guess is they will want the whole $500+ in fees and costs to add A handgun that I only paid $225 for. I got a good deal. 

If that's the case I will just wait 14 months and renew my permit then. 

Edited by brucin
new info
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20 hours ago, brucin said:

Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since I sent a letter to the court to add an additional handgun to my permit. It would be nice if they respond in some way.

EDIT Realized I forgot to pick up my mail yesterday and went just now. Letter from the court advising me to apply for a new permit with my local PD

It's also 2 weeks since I inquired with my local PD as to how they would go about adding an additional handgun. No response from them either. My guess is they will want the whole $500+ in fees and costs to add A handgun that I only paid $225 for. I got a good deal. 

If that's the case I will just wait 14 months and renew my permit then. 

And this is at the core reasoning of why I have held my application.  I want the lawsuits to get these burdensome fees and processes thrown out.  Hell, if I still lived in PA, it would have taken me 15 minutes and less than $50 to be able to exercise my right to carry.  I regret moving here every day.

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43 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

And this is at the core reasoning of why I have held my application.  I want the lawsuits to get these burdensome fees and processes thrown out.  Hell, if I still lived in PA, it would have taken me 15 minutes and less than $50 to be able to exercise my right to carry.  I regret moving here every day.

I absolutely appreciate that perspective, and a couple of my friends have said the same.

On the other hand I think if people like brucin and others hadn't jumped in and forced NJ to start delivering on permits, nobody would have them right now.  we'd still be in a state of confusion where NJ did everything possible to delay things in the courts until there was "clarity".

Yes, it's a bit inconvenient for people like brucin right now, but the early-adopters helped to move the ball to where it is now.

Hopefully by the time 2 years passes and we look to renew the fees will have been corrected back to a more reasonable amount.

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I stopped in to speak with the PD today regarding adding a handgun to a court ordered permit. I was told you have to apply for a new permit with all the required fees.

Edit: I was on a mobile device so typing out a long response would have been difficult.

This is a typical NJ cash grab and nothing more. Since the law reads "good for any handgun" you own. so carrying something not on the court order does not violate the law. My guess is IF the judge were to find out I could be charged with contempt of court. Not sure what the ramifications of that could be. The judge is in contempt of the LAW as it's written but I imagine that's OK.

I will not be applying for a new permit until 6 months before my current one expires which is 14 months from now. It tock 6 months for my current permit to be approved so I am taking NO chances with the current one expiring before the new one is issued.

At that point I will carry whatever handgun I damn well please.

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