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sorvanetzsorv

Meaning of "unloaded" - legality of storing a loaded magazine in the same locked box as the unloaded handgun in a parked car

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It was commonly accepted that when the handguns were transported under the exemptions before Bruen, a loaded magazine could not be stored in the same locked box as the unloaded handgun. Those rules also required us to store those locked boxes in the trunk of the car. The "Carry Killer" bill changed that for the PCH holders - its section 7-c(2) (which is codified as N.J.S.2C:58-4.6.c(2)) requires to:

"store a handgun or ammunition within a locked lock box and out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area;"

see:

https://casetext.com/statute/new-jersey-statutes/title-2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/chapter-2c58-registration-of-manufacturers-and-wholesale-dealers-of-firearms/section-2c58-46-prohibited-areas-carrying-firearms-destructive-device

This is commonly understood to mean that the locked box does not have to be in the trunk, but can be, for example, under the driver's seat. What does it require with respect to the loaded magazine?

If the handgun is unloaded by removing the loaded magazine from the grip, can this loaded magazine be stored in the same locked box as the unloaded gun?

If the answer to the previous question is no, does it mean that we are required to have a second lockbox for storing the loaded magazine separately from the handgun? Can the loaded magazine be stored in the locked glove compartment?

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the law does not say. 

Since a magazine is part of the firearm, there is a possibility that some court could rule that a loaded magazine is a loaded gun.  Courts have made much worse rulings - especially NJ courts concerning guns.  NJ gun attorney's have reportedly given the advice not to transport a loaded magazine.  It only takes one bad cop, one bad prosecutor, one bad judge, and one bad jury for a magazine to be considered a firearm and you can go to jail. 

I'm not saying that is what I do or what you should do, just that there is a risk.

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56 minutes ago, sorvanetzsorv said:

In the context of concealed carry one has to have a loaded magazine.

Why is that?  What if I carry a pistol unloaded or with just one round in the chamber?

 

58 minutes ago, sorvanetzsorv said:

Unloading a magazine when temporarily leaving a handgun in a parked car is not an option.

Not sure what you mean here...

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5 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

little off the wall here......but........for those places that do not wish a firearm to be brought in....the onus should be on them to provide safe and secure storage areas.

LOL!!

Are you going to surrender your gun to the minimum-wage idiot at the 'gun check' booth?

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21 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

LOL!!

Are you going to surrender your gun to the minimum-wage idiot at the 'gun check' booth?

nope. they must provide us with secure lockers, on the order of what ya see in a locker room. 'cept they're secure. or at a bus station. you place your firearm in the locker, remove the key, and are the only person who can access it.

 

yea, i know i'm just dreamin

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46 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

nope. they must provide us with secure lockers, on the order of what ya see in a locker room. 'cept they're secure. or at a bus station. you place your firearm in the locker, remove the key, and are the only person who can access it.

 

yea, i know i'm just dreamin

They have them at the Lackawanna Co Court House in PA. I made use of them the last time I renewed my LTC. A bit of a pain to have to remove my belt to go through the metal detector as I use a leather OWB holster which has to be removed from the belt.

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22 minutes ago, brucin said:

They have them at the Lackawanna Co Court House in PA. I made use of them the last time I renewed my LTC. A bit of a pain to have to remove my belt to go through the metal detector as I use a leather OWB holster which has to be removed from the belt.

so there's systems like i mentioned already in place and functioning? that gives places here no excuse.

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6 hours ago, sorvanetzsorv said:

It was commonly accepted that when the handguns were transported under the exemptions before Bruen, a loaded magazine could not be stored in the same locked box as the unloaded handgun. Those rules also required us to store those locked boxes in the trunk of the car. The "Carry Killer" bill changed that for the PCH holders - its section 7-c(2) (which is codified as N.J.S.2C:58-4.6.c(2)) requires to:

"store a handgun or ammunition within a locked lock box and out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area;"

see:

https://casetext.com/statute/new-jersey-statutes/title-2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/chapter-2c58-registration-of-manufacturers-and-wholesale-dealers-of-firearms/section-2c58-46-prohibited-areas-carrying-firearms-destructive-device

This is commonly understood to mean that the locked box does not have to be in the trunk, but can be, for example, under the driver's seat. What does it require with respect to the loaded magazine?

If the handgun is unloaded by removing the loaded magazine from the grip, can this loaded magazine be stored in the same locked box as the unloaded gun?

If the answer to the previous question is no, does it mean that we are required to have a second lockbox for storing the loaded magazine separately from the handgun? Can the loaded magazine be stored in the locked glove compartment?

Okay IANAL but I can read.

C1 in the statute says securely fastened container or locked in the trunk for transport. No container required if in locked trunk

C2 says storage of gun and ammo.in a locked box in vehicle.  Says that.  Doesn't say separate locked boxes.  A prosecutor can't make up.stuff the statute doesn't say.

The following paragraphs talk about transporting in a locked box if your in the parking area of a sensitive location.

IIRC the "loaded magazine" being considered a firearm originated in CA 15-20 years ago.  The statute at the time said if there was ammunition in any part of the gun it was considered loaded.  This covered if you had a gun with a box or tube magazine and an empty chamber you had a loaded firearm.  Someone was arrested as they had an unloaded gun and a loaded magazine and was arrested for carrying "a loaded firearm".  This went no where and was promptly dismissed.

Absent a statutory definition the way to disprove a loaded magazine is ask any firearms instructor is a gun, empty chamber, and loaded magazine is loaded. Their answer would be yes.

Remove the loaded magazine. Show the chamber clear and the gun is unloaded.

Attorneys will be extremely cautious giving advice.  That's why they say don't transport loaded magazines.  If you were to ask them how you can be assured of not being charged with a malum prohibitum gun law the most honest answer would be "don't own guns".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Agree 1

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