Xtors 327 Posted May 26, 2023 https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-new-jersey-has-enacted-the-largest-gun-ban-in-us-history/ Our friends at Ammoland, who are based in the gun rights hell that is New Jersey, have uncovered what appears to be a little-known aspect of a gun control law that passed and was signed into law last June. They’ve just published an article by attorney Evan Nappen who has read the law closely and discovered that — intentionally or not — it’s actually the biggest gun ban ever enacted in these here United States. The bill was ostensibly intended to outlaw firearms without serial numbers. It outlawed homemade guns, 3D printed guns, even possession of the files for running a 3D printer or CNC machine for making firearms. It even outlawed slingshots, fer Chrissakes. And like so many laws that are enacted at all levels of government, this one was poorly written. And as a result, it’s incredibly broad. I talked to Mr. Nappen this afternoon and he tells me the law is quite clear that for a firearm to be legal in New Jersey, it has to have a serial number and the serial number must have been imprinted by a federally licensed firearm manufacturer. That means your Daisy BB gun — which under the state’s idiotic laws is considered a firearm — may have a serial number on it, but Daisy isn’t a federally licensed gun maker. As a result that Red Ryder in your kid’s closet now makes you a felon. The implications, however, are far wider than that. Think of every pre-1968 firearm owned by New Jersey residents. The Garand that Gramps brought home from the war in Europe? Felony. The duck gun that your uncle bought in 1955 and left to you in his will…you’re now a felon. Under the state’s God-awful gun laws, air guns, pellet guns, CO2 guns, muzzleloaders and black powder guns are all considered firearms. If they don’t have serial numbers that were imprinted by a federally licensed gun maker, they’re illegal. Technically that Canik TP9 that’s made in a factory in Turkey…but now one that’s federally licensed by the US government…is also banned. Yeah. More at link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted May 26, 2023 i'm not sure this was ever missed. as far as i've lived in this stupid state bb guns have been considered firearms. if you bought a nice gammo or daisy pellet gun from gander mountain back in the day you've been a felon for many years now. congrats for just realizing it... just do a basic search of this forum and you'll see results talking about nj classifying pellet and bb guns as firearms as far back as 2009... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xtors 327 Posted May 26, 2023 How about an SKS, M1 or a Mosin purchased or transferred at an NJ FFL? Plenty of legitimate examples here. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,417 Posted May 26, 2023 14 minutes ago, Indianajonze said: i'm not sure this was ever missed. as far as i've lived in this stupid state bb guns have been considered firearms. if you bought a nice gammo or daisy pellet gun from gander mountain back in the day you've been a felon for many years now. congrats for just realizing it... just do a basic search of this forum and you'll see results talking about nj classifying pellet and bb guns as firearms as far back as 2009... That’s true, but even with that idiotic rule one could possess a BB gun if you had a FPID. Now, since the BB gun does not have a serial number printed by a “firearms manufacturer” possession of one is a felony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
almiz111 26 Posted May 26, 2023 So NJ gun shops have and have had a bunch of inventory on the shelf that is illegal? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted May 26, 2023 This isn't about a bb gun being a firearm. That was one example but not the point. The point is that half the guns owned in NJ are illegal now because every firearm manufactured before 1968 did not have a serial number. Guns last a long time. Lots and lots of pre '68 guns around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted May 26, 2023 1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said: because every firearm manufactured before 1968 did not have a serial number. Not entirely true. They weren’t required to have a serial number, but many, perhaps most, did. And it’s a rare military arm that wasn’t serialized by 1900 or so. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xtors 327 Posted May 26, 2023 My interpretation for pre-1968 firearms is that It's not that they don't have a serial number; it's that they don't have a serial number issued by a federal firearms licensee, which didn't exist prior to 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted May 26, 2023 Molon labe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xtors 327 Posted May 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, CMJeepster said: Molon labe True, but who wants to be the test case? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted May 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, Xtors said: True, but who wants to be the test case? Someone with the backing of a large organization with lots of time and money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted May 26, 2023 Im guessing the answer to this may be "no," but i will ask it anyway.... Would firearms importers like Century arms international qualify as federally licensed if the firearm has a "foreign" serial number, but has a "Century Arms" stamp on it meaning it was available/processed through them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LiveWire 14 Posted May 26, 2023 3 hours ago, father-of-three said: Would firearms importers like Century arms international qualify as federally licensed if the firearm has a "foreign" serial number, but has a "Century Arms" stamp on it meaning it was available/processed through them? No, not according to the article. the serial number must be registered with a federally licensed manufacturer. (Not importer) - "This would include most modern imported rifles, shotguns, pistols, and revolvers, plus foreign firearms, and military surplus firearms from countries around the world, if these companies were not federally licensed manufacturers (e.g., Lugers, P-38s, Mausers, Arisakas, Enfields, SKSs, Carcanos, Webleys, Norincos, Mosins, etc.)." See full article on Ammoland here https://www.ammoland.com/2023/05/new-jersey-politicians-enact-largest-gun-ban-us-history/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
almiz111 26 Posted May 26, 2023 https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/2021-annual-firearms-manufacturers-and-export-report-afmer FYI. Here is the list of licensed mfgrs. But consider: Arsenal / Las Vegas is on the list and they import the Saiga AK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted May 26, 2023 Wasn't missed, IMO. Many were aware of this as soon as the "ghost gun" law passed. AFAIK NJ hasn't been prioritizing prosecuting "improperly serialed" firearms outside of ghost guns and I haven't heard of anyone outside of a "ghost gun" maker being prosecuted for it. I don't expect this to be law for much longer (say 2-3 years), because the "ghost gun" law is going to be challenged once some of the lower hanging fruit (AWB/Mag limits) litigation is resolved. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted May 27, 2023 6 hours ago, DirtyDigz said: I don't expect this to be law for much longer (say 2-3 years), because the "ghost gun" law is going to be challenged once some of the lower hanging fruit (AWB/Mag limits) litigation is resolved. yes some time around the turn of the next century the way things have been going. everyone in this forum will be dead and buried when this one is resolved Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bennj 215 Posted May 29, 2023 Does anyone have any info on reading the actual bill and law. I'm not the best at wading through reams of legalese, but would like to read the actual docs. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xtors 327 Posted May 29, 2023 https://gun.lawyer/episode-135-largest-gun-ban-in-usa/ So, this law, this absurd law, is turning uncountable numbers of New Jersey citizens, honest law-abiding citizens into potential felons. Facing New Jersey’s typical draconian and outrageous penalties for technical violations of the law, as New Jersey is famous for. Think about how many guns here are covered. It is the largest gun ban that I am aware of in United States history if you think of how many guns come under this law. As we speak, this law is on the books. If you want to read the actual law, I’ll give you the statute. It’s N.J.S. 2C:39-3 subsection n. That’s on the possession prohibitions. N.J.S. 2C:39-9 k., which are the other prohibitions that are at a second- degree level, even more severe. You can see in the 39-9 law, that’s where you’ll also find all the other “Ghosts Gun” prohibitions and 3d printer and all that kind of stuff, all thrown in there. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LiveWire 14 Posted May 29, 2023 32 minutes ago, bennj said: Does anyone have any info on reading the actual bill and law. I'm not the best at wading through reams of legalese, but would like to read the actual docs. Thanks 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted May 29, 2023 On 5/26/2023 at 8:36 PM, Indianajonze said: everyone in this forum will be dead and buried when this one is resolved “And we will never be able to carry in NJ in our lifetimes.” 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted May 30, 2023 On 5/25/2023 at 9:07 PM, almiz111 said: So NJ gun shops have and have had a bunch of inventory on the shelf that is illegal? Sounds like it. Any shop with a Mosin or similar older used guns are at risk... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted May 30, 2023 I'm curious why Nappen is choosing this moment to blow this up. This has been law for >4 years now. I'm guessing it's either part of some strategy for a new suit, or he's trying to drum up business and attention. "We" (the forum) previously discussed this 3 years ago here: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FairbanksRusty 64 Posted May 30, 2023 37 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said: I'm curious why Nappen is choosing this moment to blow this up. This has been law for >4 years now. I'm guessing it's either part of some strategy for a new suit, or he's trying to drum up business and attention. "We" (the forum) previously discussed this 3 years ago here: He’s down from New Hampshire on his book signing tour? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyMak 0 Posted June 1, 2023 It is a start to have the current list of manufacturers, but what if the manufacturer went out of business and is no longer licensed? But was licensed in the year YOUR gun was manufactured? How will we confirm that? I'd hate to get rid of some older shotguns and rifles just because we cannot confirm they had a licenese in 1968, or 70, or 80? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted June 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, JerseyMak said: It is a start to have the current list of manufacturers, but what if the manufacturer went out of business and is no longer licensed? But was licensed in the year YOUR gun was manufactured? How will we confirm that? I'd hate to get rid of some older shotguns and rifles just because we cannot confirm they had a licenese in 1968, or 70, or 80? "They" don't care because "they" don't want us to have firearms. Look at the shit legislation that's currently being tried in court. "They" throw shit against the wall hoping that it will stick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fring Spield 1 Posted June 2, 2023 Unfortunately, It looks like Black Aces is not on the list as a Federally licensed manufacturer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 473 Posted June 3, 2023 On 5/29/2023 at 8:23 AM, Xtors said: https://gun.lawyer/episode-135-largest-gun-ban-in-usa/ So, this law, this absurd law, is turning uncountable numbers of New Jersey citizens, honest law-abiding citizens into potential felons.... Isn't that the entire rationale for PRNJ state government? While I do find this somewhat concerning, it also seems like the probabiliity for an ultimately favorable ruling in the post-Bruen court system is overwhelming. How many firearms had serial numbers in 1789 nor 1791? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omegaman 0 Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) Correct. Edited June 9, 2023 by omegaman None Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b47356 21 Posted June 8, 2023 50 minutes ago, omegaman said: I bet Chris Smith voted for this. I'm pretty sure that a member of Congress didn't vote for a NJ state law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites