NJCSD Petition

[NJCSD 0]

Dear fellow Patriots,

 

Many of us are still reeling from yet another encroachment of our liberty in the form of the One Gun A Month bill that just passed which again hurts us without having any impact on criminals.

 

This is your chance to express your outrage. We're too late to change the bill, but you can send a message to Governor Corzine to nominate only gun-friendly members to the 'task force' he's putting together.

 

Please visit the NJCSD website, click on the 'PETITION' link right at the top of the menu to the left. If you agree with our statement, please add your name to the list. All entries are confidential and will only be used for the purposes of this petition. Your name will not be seen publicly by anyone.

 

http://www.njcsd.org

[NJCSD 0]

Folks, we're off to a good start, but we need many, many more of you to spread the word and sign on to this.

WE HAVE ONLY ONE WEEK LEFT.

 

Really, it's not hard. Click the link. Enter your name, street address and zip code. Click the submit. Done. If we can't get y'all to do that, then you have nothing to complain about when they knock on your front door and demand your guns.

 

In case you missed it, here's the link:

PETITION

 

Moderators, it wouldn't hurt you to sticky this post.

[wsl 2]

The link doesn't work, from the link here, or the link on the main NJCSD site.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

Link worked for me, and I signed the petition. This is the simplest thing to do if you are not the picket sign carrying type.

[NJCSD 0]

The link doesn't work, from the link here, or the link on the main NJCSD site.

Sorry about that. We're getting random reports of the page not loading on some machines with some versions of Internet Exploder. One member said it went through after the 4th attempt.

 

Please do keep trying, and if you still have trouble, PM me and we'll get you entered manually, but ask you to send an Email confirmation as backup to verify your authorization to do so.

[NJCSD 0]

Pitiful. Just absolutely awful.

 

After almost a week, we're up to only 93 'signatures' on a petition for a purpose that could affect all gun owners in this state of all types.

 

Yes, you read that right. 93.

 

We've posted on this forum (of 375 members), as well as the largest gun boards around such as ARFCOM, The High Road, The Firing Line, and other smaller communities. That would mean that we should be up to 375 signatures from this site alone.

 

One would think that with something so simple, every gun owner who hears about this would pull out all the stops to circulate the link to every NJ resident they know who owns guns, or at least cherishes liberty.

 

We expected to have at least a thousand or more signatures by now. I'm just speechless.

 

If we wonder why the issue gets no traction in this state; if you wonder why we're not taken seriously by our legislators; and if you wonder why our rights are constantly trampled; look in the mirror, then look at your neighbor, and then go back to sleep with one eye open listening for the knock on the door.

 

For those of you who did step up to the plate, thanks for doing so. Those of us who still care will stand a watch with you any time.

[Maksim 1,504]

I thought NJCSD.org has over 575 alone?

[tbtrout 141]

NJCSD,

That is a little harsh since as of yesterday the links were not working properly by your own admission. If you try something twice and it does not work, how is anyone supposed to know they need to try it 2 more times. I know I had issues with it

 

Coming in with the heavy handed approach after 6 days, shastising working people who may not come to the boards until weekends, during the heart of vacation season is not the way to bring anyone over to your site. A good number of members here are new gun owners and are still navigating the trecherous waters of NJ gun laws. Your last post really turned me off and I signed your petition, imagine what it just did to a new gun owner who is a little timid and shy about attatching their name to an internet petition.

[Maksim 1,504]

NJCSD,

That is a little harsh since as of yesterday the links were not working properly by your own admission. If you try something twice and it does not work, how is anyone supposed to know they need to try it 2 more times. I know I had issues with it

 

Coming in with the heavy handed approach after 6 days, shastising working people who may not come to the boards until weekends, during the heart of vacation season is not the way to bring anyone over to your site. A good number of members here are new gun owners and are still navigating the trecherous waters of NJ gun laws. Your last post really turned me off and I signed your petition, imagine what it just did to a new gun owner who is a little timid and shy about attatching their name to an internet petition.

 

Just to add on to that, You cannot just think that if you put up a link, people will go and do as you say. I understand your feeling and rational behind it, but quite frankly, just putting up a petition online and expecting that everyone will do as you say is just plain flawed. You have to get out there and do it. In fact, you will have a better, easier time, doing it the old fashioned way... get a clipboard, spend a day at the ranges, and talking to people about the issue. At the same time, you cannot play internet bandit and start criticizing people for not caring about gun rights because they did not sign your petition, to which the link didnt work half the time, after 48 hours.

[67gtonut 847]

Yeah..... I am glad I was biting my tongue....

 

The 2 above stated my feelings better then me....

 

 

Not really thrilled with your internet attitude....

[NJCSD 0]

I thought NJCSD.org has over 575 alone?

Absolutely, and don't think I haven't expressed my frustration over it already. I'm here trying to kick everyone in the ass. This message will be posted everywhere. Would it not be better to focus our effort on getting gun owners motivated and involved, than comparing who's done the least?

 

NJCSD,

That is a little harsh since as of yesterday the links were not working properly by your own admission. If you try something twice and it does not work, how is anyone supposed to know they need to try it 2 more times. I know I had issues with it

No, I said that on SOME systems with SOME versions of IE and it just might require a bit of persistence. It's no different than any other internet site where sometimes pages don't load right. But I'd bet my left testicle that if it were an ammunition or accessory purchase at stake, it wouldn't stand in the way.

 

Coming in with the heavy handed approach after 6 days, shastising working people who may not come to the boards until weekends, during the heart of vacation season is not the way to bring anyone over to your site.

The time for half-measures and grade-school incentives is long past. The reason we have to use a 'heavy handed' approach is because the candy-coated BS just doesn't work for us. The evidence is everywhere you look that someone needs to be the 'bad guy' and if it makes you feel better about blaming me, that's fine, as long as we're all getting it done. Look at where we're at, and what we've gotten from trying to be 'fluffy' about this issue. The reason why we keep losing is because as a community, we do not respond quickly enough, which is exactly why the legislature works the way they do. The other reason I do this is because it works. Every time I post another message trying to kick the community into gear, the number of signatures increases. Go figure.

 

Just so that we're all on the same page, Executive Order 145 mandates that the task force be named in thirty days from the signing, which was on the 26th of July. That leaves until the 26th of August. So exactly how long would you suggest we wait, given that we still need to collate the responses, print them out along with the petition and send them in time for them to reach the Governor, Assembly Speaker and Senate President in time?

 

So we can sit around and whine about how I might be a bit abrupt with the message, and wish that we had more time and collect signatures with a clipboard, but that's not how the system works. Our rights are stolen in the dead of night, and in the blink of an eye. While we sit around debating the finer points about internet courtesy and how fluffy the message is, or how I'm such an obnoxious prick, I assure you the governor isn't going to wait around for us to get off our butts to gather signatures on paper from the local gun clubs.

[Maksim 1,504]

I thought NJCSD.org has over 575 alone?

Absolutely, and don't think I haven't expressed my frustration over it already. I'm here trying to kick everyone in the a**. This message will be posted everywhere. Would it not be better to focus our effort on getting gun owners motivated and involved, than comparing who's done the least?

 

NJCSD,

That is a little harsh since as of yesterday the links were not working properly by your own admission. If you try something twice and it does not work, how is anyone supposed to know they need to try it 2 more times. I know I had issues with it

No, I said that on SOME systems with SOME versions of IE and it just might require a bit of persistence. It's no different than any other internet site where sometimes pages don't load right. But I'd bet my left testicle that if it were an ammunition or accessory purchase at stake, it wouldn't stand in the way.

 

Coming in with the heavy handed approach after 6 days, shastising working people who may not come to the boards until weekends, during the heart of vacation season is not the way to bring anyone over to your site.

The time for half-measures and grade-school incentives is long past. The reason we have to use a 'heavy handed' approach is because the candy-coated BS just doesn't work for us. The evidence is everywhere you look that someone needs to be the 'bad guy' and if it makes you feel better about blaming me, that's fine, as long as we're all getting it done. Look at where we're at, and what we've gotten from trying to be 'fluffy' about this issue. The reason why we keep losing is because as a community, we do not respond quickly enough, which is exactly why the legislature works the way they do. The other reason I do this is because it works. Every time I post another message trying to kick the community into gear, the number of signatures increases. Go figure.

 

Just so that we're all on the same page, Executive Order 145 mandates that the task force be named in thirty days from the signing, which was on the 26th of July. That leaves until the 26th of August. So exactly how long would you suggest we wait, given that we still need to collate the responses, print them out along with the petition and send them in time for them to reach the Governor, Assembly Speaker and Senate President in time?

 

So we can sit around and whine about how I might be a bit abrupt with the message, and wish that we had more time and collect signatures with a clipboard, but that's not how the system works. Our rights are stolen in the dead of night, and the governor isn't going to wait around for us to get off our butts to gather signatures on paper from the local gun clubs.

 

Here is the best thing you can do... Pick up the phone, call the store owners, have them put a petition that people will sign as they walk in. Have a few people this weekend at their range do the same. You will get a better response that way than anywhere else, or any how.

[NJCSD 0]

Here is the best thing you can do... Pick up the phone, call the store owners, have them put a petition that people will sign as they walk in. Have a few people this weekend at their range do the same. You will get a better response that way than anywhere else, or any how.

I think you didn't read my message thoroughly. We don't have time for that for that for this purpose. I agree that this method is better for a long-term objective, but it seems you're under the mistaken impression that the NJ legislature and power brokers are going to wait around for us to respond.

 

Anyway, I'm all done here. I've had my say, now you guys can do whatever you like. But when the hammer falls, it won't be because we've not tried to get everyone on the same page.

[Glock26 0]

You cant force people by heavy handit tacticts.... it makes you no better than the "evil" people trying to take them away... by telling people, do this, it makes you the same type of tyrant... though you have the same position.

 

I am sure there are thousands of visitors who view the forum, in addition to the registered members, so if 93 people signed, out of say.... between all boards, 10k visitors?viewers, those are horrible response ratios. Go out there, and prospect.

[tbtrout 141]

I am not saying to wait and I agree with your petition, I do not agree with you standing in the Bully Pulpit preaching. Honestly, you seem a little egomaniacle, insisting that every one read and sign your petition and then blasting them because they don't. As Maksim wrote, you would probbly do better to enlist volunteers and go to gunshops an ranges for signatures.

 

Not everyone understands your frustration because many of them just became gun owners or have been hunters who recently became more actively involved in firearms. They are bomarded by scare tactics all day on the news and do not want the same thing on the forum where they come to read and learn.

[NJCSD 0]

Go out there, and prospect.

Isn't that what we've been doing for over a week, now?

 

Guys, here we go again. You're shooting the messenger. Go right ahead, if it makes you feel better. But in the meantime, instead of chastising me for being such a tyrannical bastard, you could be circulating the link to everyone you know and encouraging them to get on board.

 

Or, we can spend more time debating the pleasantries of how we ought to greet each other and share the pail and shovel. But consider this. If your house was on fire, would you complain about the fireman who kicked you in the ass to get you to safety?

[Maksim 1,504]

Go out there, and prospect.

Isn't that what we've been doing for over a week, now?

 

Guys, here we go again. You're shooting the messenger. Go right ahead, if it makes you feel better. But in the meantime, instead of chastising me for being such a tyrannical bastard, you could be circulating the link to everyone you know and encouraging them to get on board.

 

Or, we can spend more time debating the pleasantries of how we ought to greet each other and share the pail and shovel. But consider this. If your house was on fire, would you complain about the fireman who kicked you in the a** to get you to safety?

 

the main difference, everyone universally understand, house on fire, you get out. this, while is important, and urgent, is not a matter of life and death. keep in mind, you cant say... do this.... there are many people who are just getting into firearms ownership that need a reason as to why. Saying do this, does not keep firearms in the best light. =)

 

I have signed it, and all firearms owners I know are on here. Call the store owners, and have them put out a quick flyer. there is always time to take action. Ie. go to Cheyenne, where I see tons of NJCSD flyers all the time, and talk to people there. =P Instead of chasing individuals, chase the people who deal with hundreds daily. they can do more in a day, than you can do in a month.

[NJCSD 0]

the main difference, everyone universally understand, house on fire, you get out. this, while is important, and urgent, is not a matter of life and death. keep in mind, you cant say... do this.... there are many people who are just getting into firearms ownership that need a reason as to why. Saying do this, does not keep firearms in the best light. =)

 

I have signed it, and all firearms owners I know are on here. Call the store owners, and have them put out a quick flyer. there is always time to take action. Ie. go to Cheyenne, where I see tons of NJCSD flyers all the time, and talk to people there. =P Instead of chasing individuals, chase the people who deal with hundreds daily. they can do more in a day, than you can do in a month.

I think I'm just not getting through.

 

The house of liberty is on fire. We're the volunteer fire department. We pulled up in front of your house with a tanker and all you need to do is to say 'yes', please help put out the fire. However, gun owners are always welcome to sit and do nothing if they'd prefer, or thyey can grab an extinguisher (sign the petition) and help fight the blaze.

 

We're not necessarily calling on those who are new gun owners, though they should have fresh in their mind the lousy experience. We're calling on those of us who have watched our liberty burn little by little, and who should be taking a position of leadership to get everyone they can behind this.

 

No, there is NOT always time to take action.

 

In this case there wasn't time enough to circulate petitions or flyers. As a community we need to be better at mobilizing to turn on a dime. We don't have time to play with stone knives and bearskins. The liberals are using the internet, blackberries, and online funding to screw us every day while we run around with clipboards and pencils. It takes weeks if not months to coordinate a petition drive. We had only days.

 

But whatever. Carry on. I'm done.

[djg0770 481]

Perhaps part of the problem is the house has been on fire since we moved to/were born in Jersey. We're so used to the oppression and to having our voices and hearts and ideas trampled without recourse that we feel that signing another petition will not help our cause in any way.

 

I had hope for NJ and then in the beginning of June I saw all of my hope evaporate yet again. It's hard to remain in a 'Code Red' condition when every day is Code Red.

 

Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to say that what you're doing isn't worthwhile, but so far, most efforts expended for firearms owners have resulted in a great big ZERO.

 

Where was NJCSD, NRA, ANJRPC, NSSF etc during the recent one gun a month? Where are our lobbyists? Where are our membership dollars going and why are we not seeing effective representation for our rights/beliefs/ideas/efforts/love, etc?

 

I'm not trying to piss on you or your organization - I'm just expressing my thoughts and feelings as a frustrated New Jerseyan who is considering becoming something else like a Pennsylvanian or some such. :?

[Blackfox 1]

Not all the members of NJGF are NJ residents.

[67gtonut 847]

Not all the members of NJGF are NJ residents.

 

Yeah..... we need to start screening the new members

[Blackfox 1]

Not all the members of NJGF are NJ residents.

 

Yeah..... we need to start screening the new members [/quote

 

I'm calling the ONU human rights. How dare you to discriminate the minorities!!!

[Chad 3]

[Guest Ektarr]

Well, I've seen enough. As a long-standing member of the NJCSD, I thought when I found this site that it would be yet another opportunity to make an effort to impact on New Jersey's draconian gun laws and find kindred spirits in the Rights Fight here. I haven't participated much, but I have been reading and hanging around, and it appears I was mistaken. NJ Gun Forums is a fine site and serves its members, but basically amounts to just another gun enthusiasts club, not any potential player in the future of Gun Rights and Gun Owners Rights in New Jersey. This latest dialog with NJCSD Admin - which I didn't know about until I saw it here - pretty much proves it. I don't think anybody's asking you to pull the damn train...but how about just getting on board?

 

Doesn't matter...we'll do what we can with the resources we're provided, and you're welcome to jump in. God knows we can use the numbers! I suppose not everyone can be an 'activist', even a passive one, but there's certainly value in having someone else actually ready to carry the water if you don't want to, while still making sure some of yours is in the bucket, too.

 

Anyway, I'm sure - in fact, I guarantee! - that you'd be welcome at NJCSD if you want to participate in the 'activist' side, and you can still retain your position here to exercise your desire to hang with other folks in a "gun club" atmosphere. There's room for both. But we could sure use your support over there, too. And if you like, you can find me there, under this same name. I'd love to hear from you.

 

Best to all you guys!

[tbtrout 141]

You know I was done with this until the last bitter post. You will never win hearts and minds by backhaning those you wish to woo

 

In NJCSD's post he wrote that this was signed on the 26th of July which has not arrived yet. Last I checked today was the 17th of July.

So was it supposed to say the 26th of june? In that case the post for the petition was not until July 11th, so where was it for the 1st 2 weeks if it was so damn time critical? Seems like there would have been plenty of time to post in shops or ranges and get others involved. Not just sitting at a keyboard thumping your I feel good chest like you actually make a difference and blame others for your piss poor prior planning. Wow I am hot.

 

If we have until the 26th of August there is still time to make a difference.

 

Ok,

 

If you would like to start over, please pm me and we can have civil dicourse and maybe make a difference. Do some actual collaborating and create a united front. I am up for it I just do not like being bullied.

[Maksim 1,504]

wow.

 

=)

 

Yes, I am proud of who NJGF is, and the identity it is created for us. Look at the mission posts... it is to create a community, not to be an activist to get rid of all gun control.

 

My personal belief is, People have the right to their opinion, and all opinions are welcome on here. If Barak Hussein Obama wants to come on here himself and say himself he wants to abolish all guns, he is welcome to that opinion.

 

Heck, even Tbtrout and I disagree on some things, but that is what makes it great. and just something to consider... NJCSD or any other activist organization.... say the NRA, would have nothing to be activist about if it wasnt for one thing, gun owners, gun shops, etc.

 

Scare tacticts is not how you change long term opinion. the same statements "do as we say or you will loose your rights as gun owners" is no different than the arguements "we must outlaw all guns for sake of public good." People do make up their own minds in the long term and will remember that.

 

Just wondering if anyone ever consider that there are gun owners who may agree with some gun laws? This is not NJCSD's forum, where this message would work well, I personally believe any organizer's job is to create a community, and let the community dictate what it wants to do.

I know many new firearms owners actually support the background checks and the permit process that NJ has, and do view NJCSD's views as extemist.

 

And in case anyone didnt notice, we have been making phone calls the following day of the vote, including the NRA alerts, and others as posted by Cemetery's Gun Blob.

 

Much like the first convo ended with NJCSD's president stating he is done with this site.... both a month or so ago, only to come back a few months later.... here we have the same thing. While I agree the basic pretense of the vision, my views dont matter, what matters is what each individual feels. If your petition only got 93 signatures...... maybe there is another problem that doesnt warrant screaming at people, scaring them into signing it.

[aeromaks 1]

Well, I've seen enough. As a long-standing member of the NJCSD, I thought when I found this site that it would be yet another opportunity to make an effort to impact on New Jersey's draconian gun laws and find kindred spirits in the Rights Fight here. I haven't participated much, but I have been reading and hanging around, and it appears I was mistaken. NJ Gun Forums is a fine site and serves its members, but basically amounts to just another gun enthusiasts club, not any potential player in the future of Gun Rights and Gun Owners Rights in New Jersey. This latest dialog with NJCSD Admin - which I didn't know about until I saw it here - pretty much proves it. I don't think anybody's asking you to pull the damn train...but how about just getting on board?

 

Doesn't matter...we'll do what we can with the resources we're provided, and you're welcome to jump in. God knows we can use the numbers! I suppose not everyone can be an 'activist', even a passive one, but there's certainly value in having someone else actually ready to carry the water if you don't want to, while still making sure some of yours is in the bucket, too.

 

Anyway, I'm sure - in fact, I guarantee! - that you'd be welcome at NJCSD if you want to participate in the 'activist' side, and you can still retain your position here to exercise your desire to hang with other folks in a "gun club" atmosphere. There's room for both. But we could sure use your support over there, too. And if you like, you can find me there, under this same name. I'd love to hear from you.

 

Best to all you guys!

 

Does NJCSD realize that they are becoming the party that makes all gun owners look like nut jobs? I am all for the 2a and reasonable gun control, ie criminal checks, FID card, mental history checks, but also believe in no permits, no limits to firearms...... the tacticts some people use is no better than the obama scare tactics, is it that hard to just ask for help?

[Maksim 1,504]

Well, I've seen enough. As a long-standing member of the NJCSD, I thought when I found this site that it would be yet another opportunity to make an effort to impact on New Jersey's draconian gun laws and find kindred spirits in the Rights Fight here. I haven't participated much, but I have been reading and hanging around, and it appears I was mistaken. NJ Gun Forums is a fine site and serves its members, but basically amounts to just another gun enthusiasts club, not any potential player in the future of Gun Rights and Gun Owners Rights in New Jersey. This latest dialog with NJCSD Admin - which I didn't know about until I saw it here - pretty much proves it. I don't think anybody's asking you to pull the damn train...but how about just getting on board?

 

Doesn't matter...we'll do what we can with the resources we're provided, and you're welcome to jump in. God knows we can use the numbers! I suppose not everyone can be an 'activist', even a passive one, but there's certainly value in having someone else actually ready to carry the water if you don't want to, while still making sure some of yours is in the bucket, too.

 

Anyway, I'm sure - in fact, I guarantee! - that you'd be welcome at NJCSD if you want to participate in the 'activist' side, and you can still retain your position here to exercise your desire to hang with other folks in a "gun club" atmosphere. There's room for both. But we could sure use your support over there, too. And if you like, you can find me there, under this same name. I'd love to hear from you.

 

Best to all you guys!

 

Does NJCSD realize that they are becoming the party that makes all gun owners look like nut jobs? I am all for the 2a and reasonable gun control, ie criminal checks, FID card, mental history checks, but also believe in no permits, no limits to firearms...... the tacticts some people use is no better than the obama scare tactics, is it that hard to just ask for help?

 

I wouldnt go that far Jack.

[Blackfox 1]

WE ARE FAMILY..................

[tbtrout 141]

WE ARE FAMILY..................

 

Yes we are and families can bicker and then come together to back each other up. Just takes some good old fashioned 2 way communication.

 

As I finished in the last post, here is an olive branch, let's start.