Legal to have "Full Auto" Bolt Carrier?

[NickySantoro 211]

see #26 U.S.C. section 5845(b) of the national firearms act as stated in previous posts - spelled out clearly in paragraph 3 + 6 -

 

 

Please cut and paste the relevant sections or post a link. I'm still having trouble locating them.

The link would be best in this instance.

 

I think I understand your adamance on this issue. I don't believe you are fully familiar with the operation of the FA control parts in the M16 and how this relates to the FA carrier. As I noted previously, the extra "meat" on the FA carrier is designed to trip the auto sear. Even with the carrier assembly fully forward and locked up, this portion of the carrier never reaches the hammer and thus in no way could "trip" it as you stated. In no way could the FA carrier alone create a full auto situation. Even with all the other FA parts installed, minus the auto sear, it would take the best efforts of the ATF to jigger it into full auto.

Since Colt and others ship some items with this carrier, it would seem that their in-house shysters have gone over this issue with a fine tooth comb and, even with their over-cautious natures running amok, have determined the issue to be moot.

[Joelk 61]

Even with all the other FA parts installed, minus the auto sear, it would take the best efforts of the ATF to jigger it into full auto.

 

This is where it gets dangerous, as if you have a full auto trigger group, and a full auto safety (regardless of what BCG is used), when the safety is placed on auto, the sear (not auto sear) will be held back, and the hammer will follow the bolt forward. This can, particularly with soft primers, result in multiple shots with one trigger pull, or just result in a failure to fire malfunction on the second round. This is a recipe for prison :shock:

[KpdPipes 388]

if you play with safety lever while shooting with a full auto bolt carrier the gun can be coaxed to fire multiple shots with one trigger pull - there is a fellow in michigan that is now in the federal pen doing hard time over a situation like this - i'll try + scan the atf letter ( computer illiterate ) + post it later - it has pictures of all auto parts that can not be used in ar semi auto's -

 

Nonsense....no, sorry make that.. BULLSHIT The Bolt carrier performs ONE function in the Fully Automatic Firing Sequence, and without the installation of the auto sear there is NOTHING for the Bolt Carrier to act upon. Whoever told you this doesnt have any ide WTF he is talking about. THAT ranks right up with the "All you have to do is file down the firing pin" idiots.

 

While ATF hasnt given a blanket immunity, their opinion is that they arent going to hassle anyone for just having the M-16 Bolt Carrier, especially since a lot of match shooters are using it. What it WILL do, is cause you grief if there are any OTHER issues that ATF is looking for.... THE they'll add the Carrier as an issue.

[KpdPipes 388]

Even with all the other FA parts installed, minus the auto sear, it would take the best efforts of the ATF to jigger it into full auto.

 

This is where it gets dangerous, as if you have a full auto trigger group, and a full auto safety (regardless of what BCG is used), when the safety is placed on auto, the sear (not auto sear) will be held back, and the hammer will follow the bolt forward. This can, particularly with soft primers, result in multiple shots with one trigger pull, or just result in a failure to fire malfunction on the second round. This is a recipe for prison :shock:

 

This. While a case can, and has been made for the extra weight of the FA bolt carrier, there is ZERO functionaladvantage for any other FA Fire Control parts to be installed.

 

 

We reccomend for PD's that get M-16's from the Govt for their departments to use on patrol (NOT for Tac-Teams) Who aren't comfortable about "Joe Patrolman" having FA, to replace the Disconnector and Safety. With those Ar-15 parts installed it is physically impossible for the rifle (Barring some malfunction) to fire full auto. Without the "Tail" on the Auto Disconnector, there isnt anything to lift into alignment so that the the Auto sear grabs the hook on the hammer, without the "Auto" cutout on the Safety, even the m-16 disconnector would still be held down and not lift the Sear into engagement with the hammer.

[ben 0]

I know this issue is resolved, but to give a clear answer, it is NOT illegal to have a "full auto" bolt carrier. There is nothing you can do to make an AR-15 fully automatic unless you are in a free state with a lot of cash and either 1) buy a registered ar-15 receiver, 2) buy a registered drop in auto sear (RDIAS), or 3) buy a registered lightning latch (RLL). Of course, if you have access to machines to mill out an AR-15 lower receiver to M-16 dimensions, that's another story and 20 years in prison.

 

Link to illustrate what the knowledgable ones have been trying to say:

 

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/registeredreceiver.htm

[KpdPipes 388]

I know this issue is resolved, but to give a clear answer, it is NOT illegal to have a "full auto" bolt carrier. There is nothing you can do to make an AR-15 fully automatic unless you are in a free state with a lot of cash and either 1) buy a registered ar-15 receiver, 2) buy a registered drop in auto sear (RDIAS), or 3) buy a registered lightning latch (RLL). Of course, if you have access to machines to mill out an AR-15 lower receiver to M-16 dimensions, that's another story and 20 years in prison.

 

Link to illustrate what the knowledgable ones have been trying to say:

 

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/registeredreceiver.htm

 

Problem is it ISNT that clear. the ATF letter says that they recognize that the FABC wont cause it to go full auto on its own, but in the same letter they refer to the Statute that lists the FABC as a "Bad part". ALL it means is that SO FAR, they havent prosecuted someone for having only a FABC in their rifle, not that they wont Ever do so. Thats the problem with dealing with BATFE, that really WONT give a clear answer on most things, to allow themselves wiggle room later to prosecute. Sadly NJSP firearms division has taken this lesson to heart and acts in a similar manner.

[Guest]

(There is nothing you can do to make an AR-15 fully automatic unless you are in a free state with a lot of cash )

i disagree - try not seating primers all the way or block firing pin forward + hit bolt release - easy to produce slam fires even without any full auto parts -

[ben 0]

(There is nothing you can do to make an AR-15 fully automatic unless you are in a free state with a lot of cash )

i disagree - try not seating primers all the way or block firing pin forward + hit bolt release - easy to produce slam fires even without any full auto parts -

 

I was saying there is no legal, or DESIGN INTENDED, way to make an AR-15 fully automatic. sheesh

[ben 0]

I know this issue is resolved, but to give a clear answer, it is NOT illegal to have a "full auto" bolt carrier. There is nothing you can do to make an AR-15 fully automatic unless you are in a free state with a lot of cash and either 1) buy a registered ar-15 receiver, 2) buy a registered drop in auto sear (RDIAS), or 3) buy a registered lightning latch (RLL). Of course, if you have access to machines to mill out an AR-15 lower receiver to M-16 dimensions, that's another story and 20 years in prison.

 

Link to illustrate what the knowledgable ones have been trying to say:

 

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/registeredreceiver.htm

 

Problem is it ISNT that clear. the ATF letter says that they recognize that the FABC wont cause it to go full auto on its own, but in the same letter they refer to the Statute that lists the FABC as a "Bad part". ALL it means is that SO FAR, they havent prosecuted someone for having only a FABC in their rifle, not that they wont Ever do so. Thats the problem with dealing with BATFE, that really WONT give a clear answer on most things, to allow themselves wiggle room later to prosecute. Sadly NJSP firearms division has taken this lesson to heart and acts in a similar manner.

 

I agree that all it takes is one idiot to make that wiggle room into law for the rest of us, but so far, having a FABC is legal, as long as you don't have a full auto trigger kit of course.

[Guest]

having any full auto part + the semi auto firearm it fits can be construed by atf + njsp as intent to convert to full auto - very hard + expensive to disprove in a court of law -

[Tosser 61]

having any full auto part + the semi auto firearm it fits can be construed by atf + njsp as intent to convert to full auto - very hard + expensive to disprove in a court of law -

 

 

Well then you keep using your Semi BCG and I'll use my FA BCG like everyone else who buys a Colt AR anywhere in the United States. Guess what, if they're out to get you, you're fucked regardless if what you did was legal or illegal. It will be tens of thousands of dollars to defend yourself. Intent is a subjective determination based on what your peers think after arguments in court.. Using your logic, having an AR style lower can be considered intent to make a machine gun because it could, with a lot of work and parts make it happen. Keep living in fear if that makes you happy.

 

Remember in NJ we own firearms at our own peril per the NJ Supreme Court.