NJ Police and Fire Pension

[SpecialK 193]

Hey all, I've been MIA lately since school has been laying the smack down on me workload wise. I had to sign in to share this will all of you. I have already wrote a letter to Gov. Christy and plan to do some more. This is not the first I have heard of this issue, but it's the first piece of educational material that I have found to forward on.

watch it, pass it on, write someone about it.

 

[maideneddie 35]

Christy has already commited to not alter the pension benefits of both the police and firefighters. He is just going to take away from everyone else on a local, municipal and state level. I work for a school as support staff, and what he is doing is using our pension money to fund the state deficit. NJ is supposed to contribute a certain amount of money to pend the pension system, but has not for years, and he now wants to pay even less into it. I fully understand the logic behind not messing with police and fire pensions, those men and women fully deserve it for what they do, but what about the people that are educating and providing the facilities for the future generations? Our jobs are just as important...and we deserve to be able to have a secure retirement just as much as LE or fire personnel. Believe me I will never get rich doing what I do for a school system, but work toward the future of having a pension so I can actually retire. If it's up to this brain child govener, I may not have that. Let alone a job because of all the funding he is taking away from schools. It's pandoras box, and Christ cracked it wide open

[mikeyboyeee 66]

Nobody in the private sector has a pension anymore, so why should state workers, most of which (not saying you and not saying all) couldn't even cut it in the private sector.

 

My buddy is a Sheriff's officer on patrol.

I know what he does, I also know the real danger in his job. He makes 6 figures and retires with a good chuck of that as a yearly salary forever after 25 yrs in, free healthcare for his family for life.

Its ridiculous and why does anyone think that can go on forever?

 

Who do you think pays for this?

[Guest]

I say, get a 401k like the rest of us schlubs out here working.

You are responsible for your future.

Relying on the state for a sweet pension is a promise that they are realizing that they cant fulfill.

Its not that the people cant pay for it, but Christie is taking the legislature in a new direction hopefully.

Without getting deep, its the legislature that is responsible for everything that screws us today.

The villian is the sweet pension that was promised since the 70's. Well its the 2010's and all things are not equal. Its not about somebody's job being more important than someone else's, its about the fact that the math of the pension does not add up.

No man is safe when the legislature is in sesson' was a rough quote by Ben Franklin.

[njpilot 671]

Heard this morning on 101.5 that the Pension Reform Bill passed the Assembly no problem. Union mad, going after the Senate now before they vote.

[maideneddie 35]

We all pay for it. I know being a board of ed employee I have a vested interest in this, but I myself have worked in the private sector for more than 15 years. Four years ago I took my job basically for the security it would provide me and my family down the road. I don't make six figures and never will. The pension is something that is important to all of us. Not all school employees make a small fortune, and after 25 years of service we deserve something. The thing everyone needs to remember is if you were working any of these jobs instead of what you currently do now, you also would feel it is deserved. It is very easy to sit back and have opinions on this, but if you and your family's future was at stake you would feel much differently.

[SpecialK 193]

I am all for the ending of the pension. My girl has to pay 8.5% of her annual pay into it every year, that is more than anywhere else in the Nation! We would much rather take that money and invest it ourselves, but she has already been forced to pay into this crap pension for 8 years, so just give us the money with the interest due on it and you can keep your shit pension program.

[rscalzo 3]

The pension would have been in much better shape if the towns weren't exempted for years regarding their portions of the payments. NJ is in the top five in their pension system mismanagement. In spite of the fact that they are in the red, the state has told towns they can hold off even longer although the amount gains interest every day.

 

It has become obvious that services are going to be cut drastically. Mail delivery and any administrative services are about to become part time. Anything not critical services are about to be put on the back burner. Manpower is down and will not be brought up.

 

while they are hammering state pensions, they should look into Federal. While everyone is crying for a change to 401, that should include anyone getting a pension from Uncle Sam.

[Springfield1911 22]

I have nothing against cops and firemen. But when is this paying up going to end?? We the taxpayers are out busting our hump so we could fund your pensions. I have been working for the private sector forever and you know who funds my pension? I do. Its called investing for your future. Save up and pay your own pension. Firemen and police salaries are not the salaries from 30 years ago. They far surpass the private sector salaries so stop crying the blues already. Property tax are at an all time high in this state and they are not going to get any better.

[rscalzo 3]

The PFRS takes almost nine percent a week from every check. On the otherhand, the towns and counties have paid nothing for years due to mismanagement. At one time not long ago, the state managed to take a system that was funded at 110 percent and bring it to where it is today. the pension system funds have carried the state for years. It was a politicians piggybank. They dumped everyone of their friends into the system who worked a hour a week. Now they system is in trouble and the politicians are pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.

 

No one will be looking to get into anything associated with the state only a few years down the road. What will the standard for a government employee in NJ will rival that of a fry cook at McDonalds. NY tried it a years back and paid for it when the problem employee skyrocketed. Standards will become a thing of the past.

[Springfield1911 22]

RScalzo have you seen some of government employees lately??? A "fry cook" as you put it has more brains than some government employees I have come across. Standards have LONG been gone.

[rscalzo 3]

Where you can run into a problem is here:

 

2C:39-10 Violation of the regulatory provisions relating to firearms; false representation in applications.

 

2C:39-10. Violation of the regulatory provisions relating to firearms; false representation in applications.

 

a. (1) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, any person who knowingly violates the regulatory provisions relating to manufacturing or wholesaling of firearms (section 2C:58-1), retailing of firearms (section 2C:58-2), permits to purchase certain firearms (section 2C:58-3), permits to carry certain firearms (section 2C:58-4), licenses to procure machine guns or assault firearms (section 2C:58-5), or incendiary or tracer ammunition (section 2C:58-10), except acts which are punishable under section 2C:39-5 or section 2C:39-9, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

(2)A licensed dealer who knowingly violates the provisions of subparagraph (d) of paragraph (5) of subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:58-2 is a disorderly person.

 

b.Any person who knowingly violates the regulatory provisions relating to notifying the authorities of possessing certain items of explosives (section 2C:58-7), or of certain wounds (section 2C:58-8) is a disorderly person.

 

c.Any person who gives or causes to be given any false information, or signs a fictitious name or address, in applying for a firearms purchaser identification card, a permit to purchase a handgun, a permit to carry a handgun, a permit to possess a machine gun, a permit to possess an assault firearm, or in completing the certificate or any other instrument required by law in purchasing or otherwise acquiring delivery of any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machine gun, or assault firearm or any other firearm, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

d.Any person who gives or causes to be given any false information in registering an assault firearm pursuant to section 11 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12) or in certifying that an assault firearm was rendered inoperable pursuant to section 12 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-13) commits a crime of the fourth degree.

 

99 out of a hundred might not be a problem. But many will ask for a photo ID to verify the validity of the FID card. Is the address currently on your FID card valid? If you not longer live there, the FID card is no longer a valid document in the eye's of the state. Is it worth taking a chance of having the document voided until corrected if possible?

 

Everything sounds great until the crap hits the fan. In fact, where does it leave the FFL for not insuring the correct info is available. Is the 4473 reflecting the address on your FFL or your current address? Either way he can have a problem if audited.

[maideneddie 35]

A "fry cook" as you put it has more brains than some government employees I have come across. Standards have LONG been gone.

Whats so funny is if you had a state government job, you would not be posting negative things, none of you would. You would all be defending the public employee pension system. We PAY the same taxes you all do, face all the same economic pitfalls that you all do, and work just as hard as you all do. The only difference between us and you is instead of having only one boss, or supervisor, we are under the scrupulous eye of the millions of taxpayers. People are unfortunately so quick to think we are all a bunch of slacking bums, because you "pay our salaries", but perhaps you should take a look around your own workplace. I'll bet at any given moment there are people facebooking, having personal phone conversations on company phones, shopping online, ect. Instead of being so bitter to the people that serve you and provide services to you everyday, maybe understand that it is not us that are screwing you, it is the corrupt, self serving politicians that YOU all elected. They are the one causing the problem.

[Springfield1911 22]

You mean the same corrupt politicians you union people keep voting in?

[maideneddie 35]

Not just us, but also the same hardworking tax paying people that are being referred to in this thread!

[rscalzo 3]

You mean the same corrupt politicians you union people keep voting in?

 

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about. The PBA is not a union and doe not represent any agency in contract negotiations. There is no "union" and never was unlike other states that are represented by a union.

 

The PBA and the FOP which is not as popular in NJ is a fraternal organization that lobbies for issues of concern. So the last time I looked, we couldn't vote anyone in. In fact the candidate backed by the PBA lost.

[Springfield1911 22]

Yes your right. An organization that lobbies and kisses the asses of crooked politicans so they can keep getting bigger and bigger pay raises and not pay a dime into their healthcare and also collect pensions that no one in the private sector will ever get. Even though the taxpayer is paying the pension.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Everybody wants to take shots at people who seem to be doing better then us.

Whats the problem ??? You want a better life work towards it. Call your elected rep. Tell them you want better boarder security so that you only have to compete against a fellow American instead of an illegal who works off the books while his/her benefits are paid by the tax payer. Tell them you want fair trade not free trade. How are we supposed to compete against someone who lives in the dirt and makes .45 cents a day. While your at it tell them you want pro worker legislation so you dont have to fear losing your job just for considering a union. Don't drink the talk show Koolaid. There directing your anger from the greedy corporations towards the few American workers left who have what our fathers and there fathers before them had. The answer is not to tear fellow Americans down but to make Mega Corporations pay a living wage to it's workers instead of mega bonuses to a few upper management types who never bear the costs of there decisions.

[Blackfox 1]

Everybody wants to take shots at people who seem to be doing better then us.

Whats the problem ??? You want a better life work towards it. Call your elected rep. Tell them you want better boarder security so that you only have to compete against a fellow American instead of an illegal who works off the books while his/her benefits are paid by the tax payer. Tell them you want fair trade not free trade. How are we supposed to compete against someone who lives in the dirt and makes .45 cents a day. While your at it tell them you want pro worker legislation so you dont have to fear losing your job just for considering a union. Don't drink the talk show Koolaid. There directing your anger from the greedy corporations towards the few American workers left who have what our fathers and there fathers before them had. The answer is not to tear fellow Americans down but to make Mega Corporations pay a living wage to it's workers instead of mega bonuses to a few upper management types who never bear the costs of there decisions.

 

You are right, but then tell an American to do the work illegal

[GoNRA 12]

Everybody wants to take shots at people who seem to be doing better then us.

Whats the problem ??? You want a better life work towards it. Call your elected rep. Tell them you want better boarder security so that you only have to compete against a fellow American instead of an illegal who works off the books while his/her benefits are paid by the tax payer. Tell them you want fair trade not free trade. How are we supposed to compete against someone who lives in the dirt and makes .45 cents a day. While your at it tell them you want pro worker legislation so you dont have to fear losing your job just for considering a union. Don't drink the talk show Koolaid. There directing your anger from the greedy corporations towards the few American workers left who have what our fathers and there fathers before them had. The answer is not to tear fellow Americans down but to make Mega Corporations pay a living wage to it's workers instead of mega bonuses to a few upper management types who never bear the costs of there decisions.

 

You are right, but then tell an American to do the work illegal

[Old School 611]

I've stayed out of this thread but I think alot of the posters should self reflect.

 

There seems to be duffuses on both sides of this arguement.

 

Here are the given issues 1) Our government is terribly corrupt.

2) Government spending is out of control.

 

 

Accepting these two issues, look at yourself and determine if you are a contributor or parasite. I see both have posted here.

[SpecialK 193]

Ah I see now, NJ is so messed up because people want services for free! I get it now!

 

Who in their right mind would run into burning buildings for a living if they weren't paid; and then when they turn 65 they are FORCED to retire. The pension is also not voluntary. I didn't post this and say "We need to fund the pension!!!" I posted this because this needs to be fixed. If your stance is you don't want to pay the people that serve and protect you a pension then start writing letters saying to stop taking their money and putting it into a forced pension program! The whole point of the video is that fire and police pay into this pension and the politicians are borrowing from it. You, the tax payer, have not contributed anything to this pension in years! You have actually been taking their money and using it!

 

It is amazing how ignorant people are about how their own state works. I don't even live there yet and I have a better grasp than most.

 

either pay them like they were promised or lets come up with a new system.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

 

You are right, but then tell an American to do the work illegal

[rscalzo 3]

You are right, but then tell an American to do the work illegal

[docwalt 1]

Chad.... you still have any of that popcorn left?

[djg0770 481]

 

 

This is my personal favorite...

[rscalzo 3]

I call the NYPD---

Bank Robbery

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. Bank Robberies are investigated by the Federal agency...sometimes. Only once did they actually respond. The case of ROBBERY is a state charge.

 

You can call all you want but INS/ICE will not allow the holding of any undocumented unless there is an associated SERIOUS crime involved. So why would they respond? To just let them go after tying up resources doing paperwork? State agencies cannot enforce Federal regulations.

[maideneddie 35]

 

 

This is my personal favorite...

Dan that is awesome, got to find the popcorn smiley though...

[docwalt 1]

Apples and Oranges ????? Why is it everytime these treads come back to F O O D!!!!

[GRIZ 3,369]

they should look into Federal. While everyone is crying for a change to 401, that should include anyone getting a pension from Uncle Sam.

 

There were big changes to the federal pension sysytem during the Reagan Administration with the adoption of the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). Under FERS the biggest chunk of your pension comes from the thrift Savings Plans which is basically a 401K. Federal retirees get health insurance of their choice but there is no employer contribution to it. The retiree has to pay for it in full. Granted they pay a group rate but pay for it all.

 

The first area of reform in the NJ Pension Sytem is the way it is designed to be abused by the politically hooked. There has to be a name for it but I'm not sure what it is. Say you're an engineer employed by a big firm or you own your own business. Get appointed to the Anytown Downtown Improvement Committee which pays you a nominal salary ($5-10K year) which requires you make a monthly meeting and do maybe 10-12 hours work between meetings. Do this for 25 years or so and then get yourself a real (appointed) state job that pays 150K. Work at that for 3 years (it is high 3 in NJ isn't it) and you get a pension based on that 150K salary plus free health benefits.

 

The opportunities for lawyers to abuse the system is even better with all the lawyer jobs available full and part time throughout the state.

 

So why would they respond? To just let them go after tying up resources doing paperwork? State agencies cannot enforce Federal regulations.

 

ICE has a problem picking up illegals. If the only Federal crime is being illegal the most ICE can do is hold them on a $1500 bond and issue a notice to appear. The number of agents they have tied up working serious cases like human trafficking doesn't leave much manpower to pick up an illegal who washing dishes in a restaurant or working as a roofer for $10 a hour. The public is part to blame for illegals getting work. They don't want to pay the union guy $30 a hour for the job that an illegal will do for $10. Arrest all the illegals working in restaurants in NJ and none will have clean dishes.

 

50 years ago there were Americans to do the jobs that many illegals do. The nanny state started during the Johnson Administration has made it too easy for enabling those Americans who don't want to work for a living to live off the government. Remember during the Clinton Administration when it was discovered Social Security was instructing drug addicts on how to apply for SSI because they couldn't work because they were drug addicts?