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DirtyDigz

If you REALLY want an adjustable stock on your AR...

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How is it any different from a standard stock on any hunting rifle or shotgun?

I understand the intention is to make it more like a regular rifle grip, and maybe if I held one I might think they accomplished that... but, simply based on the pictures posted, it doesn't look comfortable... I'm also wondering how much of a compromise it is with regards to manipulating the controls on an AR.

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Interesting concept, but I am curious how it would affect the handling of the rifle. Wouldn't this change bore axis so that the recoil is no longer delivered straight back into the shooter?

 

Edit: for the ones with the stock/grip combo -- the one with the collapsible stock would be pretty standard I'm guessing

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Howdy,

 

Thought I'd chime in here and address some of the questions and concerns. Some of this is on our FAQ page (http://www.exilemachine.com/faq.html).

 

1) Configuration: CA defines the pistol grip very precisely. NJ and the other Northeast AWB states do not have such a definition. Therefore we do not recommend you use it in what we call Type III configuration, where the Hammerhead is a grip-only and not attached to a buttstock. This is fine in CA but a grey area elsewhere. For NJ we recommend only Type I and Type II configurations as shown, as Hammerhead is obviously part of a rifle stock and not a grip:

 

IMG_8115.JPG

Type I Configuration

 

IMG_8126.JPG

Type II Configuration

 

2) Comfort: Everyone who's actually fired it has remarked how comfortable it is to hold and shoot. There is a balancing act between making it legal and making it look like something that belongs on an AR-15, and something that would be comfortable to hold. The edges are much more rounded than they appear in side-on photos. Type I config puts less of a cramp in your neck as you can hold your head more upright to get a sight picture. We do sell these into the free states for shooters who desire a more traditional rifle hold. We also have a 30-day no questions guarantee. Shoulder it up and if you don't love it, send it back.

 

IMG_7465.JPG

IMG_7138_CR.JPG

 

3) Control Manipulation: Most CA shooters who eliminate the pistol grip install an ambi-safety. We have a sizing page (http://www.exilemachine.com/sizing.html) to help you determine if you'll be able to reach. If you have normal to large sized hands you'll have no trouble. Very small hands and you might need to stretch to hit the mag release, and we have customers who use the Arredondo mag release button to help with that.

 

4) Bore Axis/Muzzle Climb: We have a very detailed writeup about this on our FAQ. Basically if you go with a Type I configuration, your muzzle climb is less than if you shoot your AR in what we call military style, where you put the bottom tip of your buttstock as high as possible on your shoulder, which is how most people shoot these days anyway. Most shooters tell us that there is no felt recoil.

 

5) Evil Features: If you want to run a collapsible stock that is an obvious choice, but it would also be possible to choose a threaded barrel and experiment with different flash hiders or compensators, and not have to pin or weld them, thus destroying resale value on your barrel. This is less common but you may also decide to fix a bayonet, so you could have a bayo lug.

 

-Mark

President / CEO

Exile Machine LLC

Fort Worth TX

214 432 7411

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This is what I really like about the shooting community. I'm not a rifle guy, but the fact that a manufacturer who has no real obligation to directly address the concerns of a very small part of his market would come on here, register on the forum and directly answer questions makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

Thank you Mark, for stepping up. It's not your fault we live in NJ, and coming on and clarifying some of the issues was a nice thing you did.

 

Welcome to the board. And to the Hell that is NJ.

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Thanks for joining and contributing to the discussion! I for one will be purchasing the hammerhead grip in order to get a collapsible stock on my AR when I build it. I was concerned about comfort but your 30 day return policy sold me.

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Mark - thank you for coming on here to address the concerns that were brought up. I once again have to commend you for thinking outside the box, even if this particular setup isn't my cup of tea.

 

Good luck.

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Thanks for the warm welcome. I've always enjoyed my trips to NJ, except for that one time coming out of Newark airport around 1AM when a wrong turn put me in some place that looked like Beirut. :mrgreen:

 

My web provider shows me who links to my company site so when I see a forum or blog is linking up I go out to see what people are saying, and join and provide clarification if needed. This is a new product so there are always questions that come up.

 

People always ask why does someone in TX care about the AWB... I lived in CA for a couple years until about a year ago when I escaped back home to TX, and decided to do something to help those shooters who are still fighting these crazy laws.

 

We've sold boatloads of Hammerheads into CA and have recently started to sell into the free states and the northeast AWB states. CA customers split pretty evenly between Type I/II and Type III/IV configs. We are even prototyping a threadless grip-only model specifically for CA. Finally even though we do have the 30-day guarantee, we have never had a single customer return.

 

Look forward to doing business with you in NJ.

 

-Mark

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Awesome, thanks for taking the time to interact with the consumers.

 

I have two things that make me :| when I look at the design. I know everything is preference, and no one is forcing me to use the product-- just want to make that clear so it doesn't sound like I'm judging (as my disclaimer).

1. How does the grip affect trigger squeeze? I know that its dependent on the user, but, on average, would the user have to possibly re-adjust their grip to accommodate a good trigger squeeze?

2. I personally run the system on the inside of my shoulder-pit area moreso on my chest-- would this type of style make it difficult for positive cheek-to-stock, or would it not matter?

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are you the same 'marka' from frrax

 

nope, not even sure what ffrax is... I do go by lowracer on many other sites though.

 

Here are a couple shots of the experimental threadless "stubby" mod for CA. We just saw the tail section off, file a little and spray paint. Could use these in New Jersey, but you will want a good firearms attorney on speed dial in case LEO confuses this for a pistol grip.

 

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Public Testing at our Fort Worth Range...

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IMG_7133.JPG

 

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We just toss a stack of 30-rounders on the bench and let anyone try it who wants a shot at it. We get really good feedback that way.

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Awesome, thanks for taking the time to interact with the consumers.

No problem, I enjoy it.

 

1. How does the grip affect trigger squeeze? I know that its dependent on the user, but, on average, would the user have to possibly re-adjust their grip to accommodate a good trigger squeeze?

It's just like holding a wooden rifle. Hard to describe it otherwise. When I pick up my M1 carbine or Garand it's pretty much the same hold. M1's a bit fatter but the muscle memory from wooden rifle to Hammerhead hold is pretty close. Look at photos of marksmen shooting wooden rifles, you'll see it's a similar geometry.

 

2. I personally run the system on the inside of my shoulder-pit area moreso on my chest-- would this type of style make it difficult for positive cheek-to-stock, or would it not matter?

I think you'd have to try it and try different stocks. Your cheek weld goes on the pistol buffer tube, and there are a bunch of those on the market and it's popular to put some foam sleeve over those to make it more comfy. I find good sleeves at mountain bike stores where they're sold as hand grip material. Some pistol buffer tubes come with foam installed or as an option. Ace and Model 1 Sales have some nice ones. Choice of stock is a big part of the fit too. There are probably hundreds of stocks to choose from. The entry length stocks work well on the back of the Hammerhead. And the good thing about using something like the ACE AR-UL-E stock is that you can just cut the buffer tube if you need it shorter. Because there's no buffer/spring inside it, it's just a tube.

 

For instance in this config you can cut that AR-UL-E stock down as short as you like. Or use an adjustable stock now that there's no Pistol Grip.

 

IMG_8126.JPG

 

Can I mention the gun auction sites on here? Don't want to run afoul of the rules.

 

-Mark

Exile Machine LLC

214 432 7411

[email protected]

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I agree, it *looks* uncomfortable...

 

It's pretty hard to judge the comfort if you haven't actually held it and fired it.

Try one for 30 days. If you don't love it, send it back. Won't cost you a dime. (BTW We've never had a return on this policy).

 

Customer comments here:

http://www.exilemachine.com/customer_reviews.html

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You can just remove the Pistol Grip from an AK-47 and hold it like a wooden rifle... I haven't tried it since I don't own an AK yet but there are those in CA who do this.

 

Yeah, and it's truly terrible....Unless the operator has gorilla hands or something! lol

 

Really though, no point in doing that. If the threaded barrel is that important, one could always have a factory configuration Saiga and thread the muzzle, and remain NJ compliant. I can't remember for the life of me who, but some company is releasing a monte carlo-stocked and slightly reshaped AR-15 either this year or next.

 

Me personally, I simply don't see the point of over-neutering the rifle like these ARs above. I can't understand how a collapsible stock could possibly be worth trading for that awful looking grip. Especially in NJ where who knows, the AG/NJSP who can make up rules about guns as they go along, can simply decide to call that a pistol grip and throw you to the lions, on a whim.

 

As much as their laws suck, at least California is clear about what they consider a pistol grip or not, what constitutes a proper magazine lock, exact model by model listing of the ban list and not "_____-type" etc.

 

But hey, to each his own. Me personally, I'd rather not have a stock that not only neuters my rifle even more than it needs to be, but also requires me to have an attorney on speed dial. :shock:

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