need some quick help with saiga restoration...

[david8613 69]

arent bayonettes illegal in nj? im trying to make my saiga as original looking as possibe, and tips or ideas?

[NJgunowner86 0]

Bayonets are legal - Bayonet lugs are not legal on your rifle. Your Saiga does not have a bayonet lug on its gas block, aside from the fact that changing a gas block requires drilling out the pins (most later model saigas have recessed pins rather than standard protruding pins that can be drifted out) and pressing the blocks off which is a good bit of work, it's illegal to install a bayonet lug with a pistol grip and detachable magazines anyway.

[david8613 69]

nj laws suck, scratch that idea then. i ordered some wood, now i know i need a gas tube should it be vented or not and i also need a Bolt on Lower Handgaurd Bracket the one from carolina should be fine, it is american made right?

[NJgunowner86 0]

nj laws suck, scratch that idea then. i ordered some wood, now i know i need a gas tube should it be vented or not and i also need a Bolt on Lower Handgaurd Bracket the one from carolina should be fine, it is american made right?

 

Lower handguard retaining brackets are not one of the functional parts enumerated in 922r, so it doesn't matter where it was made and doesn't affect your parts count. Those ones start life as Romanian AKM handguard retainers and get cut into the bolt on shape and have a new locking cam installed here in the USA (by me)

 

Just get a AK74 or AK100 style gas tube as far as venting, it really doesn't matter. The gun gets hot as hell when doing serious shooting and the only noticeable way you'll reduce heat is a good pair of gloves. I've also seen people who have fabricated heat shields into the lower handguard that had decent results too.

 

The parts of your gun of which up to 10 may be of foreign origin are:

 

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(9) Gas pistons

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Magazine followers

(20) Magazine floorplates

 

I removed the parts from the list that your rifle does not have: muzzle attachment, barrel extension, sear, trigger housing, operating rod

[Guest]

nj laws suck, scratch that idea then. i ordered some wood, now i know i need a gas tube should it be vented or not and i also need a Bolt on Lower Handgaurd Bracket the one from carolina should be fine, it is american made right?

 

 

instead of buying real AK mags and dealing with the whole pinned not pinned, AND worrying about compliance parts.. you could just use some US made mags and be set..

 

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/sure ... p-356.html

 

they are Saiga specific so would likely need modification to work with your rifle which has been modified to accept AK mags.. but again would virtually eliminate ANY issues you are having.. and honestly.. NO offense.. but pinned 30 round mags are silly because they are combersum and you are not gaining any benefit due to reduced capacity.. its kind of like grabbing a suitcase to carry a bottle of water and your cell phone, no point in carrying something SO big when half the storage space has been rendered useless..

[Guest]

those ones start life as Romanian AKM handguard retainers and get cut into the bolt on shape and have a new locking cam installed here in the USA (by me)

 

you make the ones that they sell?

[NJgunowner86 0]

nj laws suck, scratch that idea then. i ordered some wood, now i know i need a gas tube should it be vented or not and i also need a Bolt on Lower Handgaurd Bracket the one from carolina should be fine, it is american made right?

 

 

instead of buying real AK mags and dealing with the whole pinned not pinned, AND worrying about compliance parts.. you could just use some US made mags and be set..

 

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/sure ... p-356.html

 

they are Saiga specific so would likely need modification to work with your rifle which has been modified to accept AK mags.. but again would virtually eliminate ANY issues you are having.. and honestly.. NO offense.. but pinned 30 round mags are silly because they are combersum and you are not gaining any benefit due to reduced capacity.. its kind of like grabbing a suitcase to carry a bottle of water and your cell phone, no point in carrying something SO big when half the storage space has been rendered useless..

 

Very well said. I cannot stand pinned magazines...totally pointless. Cell phone in a briefcase analogy is a good one V6 Mustang is another good one. I agree with you, in NJ Surefire 15 rd'ers are the best and easiest way to go IMO.

 

And yeah, I make the retainers that CSS sells. I refinish Soviet wood furniture as well from time to time when I have the parts available. As well as a couple other projects. Amateur tinkerer here

[NJgunowner86 0]

Some furniture I did. I strip the cosmoline gunk covered, awful looking surplus furniture down to bare wood, and refinish them. I mix various clothing dyes and/or wood stains to come up with some cool colors.

[uppercuts 0]

How much do you charge for the retaining pins. I need 3 to finish up my conversions.

[david8613 69]

uuuugghhh! all that wood is giving me wood! i wonder why we dont see more of the wood saigas vs the tacticool? beautiful njgun, really nice work i like it alot!

[NJgunowner86 0]

thanks for the compliments.

 

Also to uppercuts, you can buy the retainers on carolinashooterssupply.com, part of my agreement with them is that I do not sell them directly. They go for $28.95 and CSS has extremely fast shipping, usually 2-3 days from them to NJ at most.

[Guest]

thanks for the compliments.

 

Also to uppercuts, you can buy the retainers on carolinashooterssupply.com, part of my agreement with them is that I do not sell them directly. They go for $28.95 and CSS has extremely fast shipping, usually 2-3 days from them to NJ at most.

 

no wonder you had so much trouble with Dinzags.. :naughty:

[NJgunowner86 0]

thanks for the compliments.

 

Also to uppercuts, you can buy the retainers on carolinashooterssupply.com, part of my agreement with them is that I do not sell them directly. They go for $28.95 and CSS has extremely fast shipping, usually 2-3 days from them to NJ at most.

 

no wonder you had so much trouble with Dinzags.. :naughty:

 

Yep, my nightmares with Dinzag's product led to me try and come up with my own. I thought I'd screw up so I bought two, but it worked first try. Having a spare, I put it for sale on a classified ad, and when I had half a dozen people all PMing me about a single spare item, I knew I was onto something. So I made a few more, and it still wasn't enough. next thing you know, enough people wanted one that I hooked up with CSS and started to turn them out by the dozen.

 

I don't need to shill my product - all one needs to do is compare how an AKM retainer works to how Dinzag's works. An AKM retainer uses a groove atop the barrel and two side notches to lock itself in place. Dinzag's retainer is simply a round clamp that grasps the barrel. An AK's barrel is subject to serious vibration and flexes during shooting. It's a simple matter of design, as to which holds on better. Not only is mine superior, but it costs $55 less as well.

[Guest]

thanks for the compliments.

 

Also to uppercuts, you can buy the retainers on carolinashooterssupply.com, part of my agreement with them is that I do not sell them directly. They go for $28.95 and CSS has extremely fast shipping, usually 2-3 days from them to NJ at most.

 

no wonder you had so much trouble with Dinzags.. :naughty:

 

Yep, my nightmares with Dinzag's product led to me try and come up with my own. I thought I'd screw up so I bought two, but it worked first try. Having a spare, I put it for sale on a classified ad, and when I had half a dozen people all PMing me about a single spare item, I knew I was onto something. So I made a few more, and it still wasn't enough. next thing you know, enough people wanted one that I hooked up with CSS and started to turn them out by the dozen.

 

I don't need to shill my product - all one needs to do is compare how an AKM retainer works to how Dinzag's works. An AKM retainer uses a groove atop the barrel and two side notches to lock itself in place. Dinzag's retainer is simply a round clamp that grasps the barrel. An AK's barrel is subject to serious vibration and flexes during shooting. It's a simple matter of design, as to which holds on better. Not only is mine superior, but it costs $55 less as well.

 

 

mine came with a set screw like the one pictured.. sounds to me like yours was not shipped with all the right parts... it IS nice that yours is a lot cheaper.. and would go that route if i had to again, simply based on cost...but can't say i have had a single issue with the Dinzag unit....on ANY of the builds i have done which definitely numbers more than just a couple..

[NJgunowner86 0]

Yeah, a set screw is OK. But the entire top of mine rotates 180 to lock into the top notch in place as well as the side grooves locking into the barrel. The end result of his is a round clamp with a little nub that pushes against the barrel.

 

The difference is very clear. That's what I meant by my previous posts. And I'm confident mine (a standard AKM retention mechanism) will take a lot more punishment than his. I'm not saying his is bad - mine is just a whole lot better if you ask me.

 

My camera is dead at the moment - of all times. Give me an hour or so to charge I'll take more in depth pics of how mine locks for you. I think the design speaks for itself.

[NJgunowner86 0]

Like I said, I simply can't imagine how Dinzag's single small set screw can possibly even come close to retaining as well as three large locking mechanisms that mount the retainer the way the gun was originally designed to. My retainer is simply an AKM retainer adapted for a Saiga, it uses the same size top cam and side locking lugs.

 

I don't mean to argue with you, I really don't. Dinzag doesn't make a bad product. I just don't appreciate being called a shill for telling people about a superior product that costs less than half of the competitor's simply because I happen to be the guy making it. First and foremost, I'm a gun enthusiast just like all the rest. I shoot these guns for fun, and the pursuit of my hobby and inadequate performance of a different product led me to start making my own. I'm not gonna lie, I don't mind making a few bucks, but I'm no shill.

[Guest]

I don't mean to argue with you, I really don't. Dinzag doesn't make a bad product. I just don't appreciate being called a shill for telling people about a superior product that costs less than half of the competitor's simply because I happen to be the guy making it.

 

the first time you put words in my mouth i simply ignored it.. but its growing old.. i dont think i ONCE accused you of anything..

 

 

to answer the question you posed I am not sure why my Dinzag unit did not malfunction.. not sure why MANY have used this item without issue... like I already CLEARLY stated.. if I needed another I would likely buy yours..

[david8613 69]

ok guys my restoraion is a little more closer to being complete, but im a little baffled on how to put on some of my parts, first is the gas tube, i know your supposed to turn that little lever on the side using the cleaning kit to do it, i did that but that gas tube is not budging not even a little. next how do i get the top wood handgaurd on my gas tube on, i dont want to break it. next taking off the shroud should i do it with a dremel or pipe cutter, i tried with a copper pipe cutter but broke it! if i were to use a dremel how do you keep it neat? now how do you get the retainer on? it looks i would have to take front end of the rifle to do this? lastly my ak mag falls out am i suppose to dremel the mag release a little? i already have the bullet guide installed, i know this is alot of questions, but i know i will get the best answers here! thanks...

[NJgunowner86 0]

ok guys my restoraion is a little more closer to being complete,

 

1 but im a little baffled on how to put on some of my parts, first is the gas tube, i know your supposed to turn that little lever on the side using the cleaning kit to do it, i did that but that gas tube is not budging not even a little.

 

2next how do i get the top wood handgaurd on my gas tube on, i dont want to break it.

 

3next taking off the shroud should i do it with a dremel or pipe cutter, i tried with a copper pipe cutter but broke it! if i were to use a dremel how do you keep it neat?

 

4now how do you get the retainer on? it looks i would have to take front end of the rifle to do this?

 

5 lastly my ak mag falls out am i suppose to dremel the mag release a little? i already have the bullet guide installed, i know this is alot of questions, but i know i will get the best answers here! thanks...

 

1 What gas tube did you buy? If you bought an AK-74 or AK100 gas tube, the rear ramp is the correct angle and the lever will go right on. If you bought an AKM or often labeled "AK" gas tube, you will need to remove material from the rear ramp of the gas tube to make it fit. Take off a little at a time with the dremel, and keep trying it for fit over and over again. You want that sucker to be real tight, it should take a little effort to close that lever. If you remove too much you will be able to easily put the tube on, but the damn thing will rattle and be kind of annoying (though still perfectly functional)

 

2 Put the tube section in a vise, gently closed. Next, take the wood handguard in your hand and put it against the bottom of the brackets. You can tell which side of the handguard is the front by looking at it, the "teeth" will have a larger tooth near the front and the smaller tooth at the rear. If it's got no "teeth" then look at it closely and you will see it tapers slightly, the thinner part is the part that faces toward the muzzle. Push that sucker in hard as hell, then twist hard as hell. It should go on nice and tight. If it goes in easy, it's gonna rattle. (see the trend here? lol)

 

3 I took mine off with a dremel. Pipe cutters work but can be a pain in the ass and cause of many blisters. Just cut the shroud along the circumference of the barrel either flush with the sight block or 5/8" from the muzzle if using a slant brake. Other brakes like an AMD style you will have to measure what distance you should cut at. Or you could always just cut flush with the block if you don't mind the cosmetic gap. Cut a little bit at a time, go around a few times with a dremel. Break out the chisel and sledge and give that fucker a good whack. If it doesn't come off, couple more turns with the dremel, rinse and repeat.

 

4 If you bought a Dinzag bolt on, it goes right on. If you bought a CSS bolt on, there are instructions that go with it. If you bought a standard AKM retainer, to do that you're going to need to remove the front sight and gas blocks. Front sight block will come off with a dremel and a sledge hammer (just took one off to change the sight block the tonight, I bought a Bulgarian FSB with a Soviet AK-74 brake welded to it for my 5.45) but the gas block is going to need the pin driven out with a punch/sledge and then the block is going to need to be pressed off with a 12-20 ton press. Removing blocks is a good bit of work and its a little involved, just make sure you're up to it.

 

5 Yes, you need to dremel the magazine release and remove a little metal. Round up a bunch of magazines and take a little metal off, try them all, rinse and repeat. Some will fit tighter than others. There is a little bit of difference in tolerance between each magazine so it is best to try it with a bunch.

[david8613 69]

arrrrgghhhh! i got the standard retainer, man i dont think i wanna do all that... :snooty: the other stuff i could handle. boy this is making think really hard about going evil black, thats probably why you see more of them less work...i have to think now.... :doh: :roll: :?

[NJgunowner86 0]

arrrrgghhhh! i got the standard retainer, man i dont think i wanna do all that... :snooty: the other stuff i could handle. boy this is making think really hard about going evil black, thats probably why you see more of them less work...i have to think now.... :doh: :roll: :?

 

Yeah. Changing blocks is pretty involved, not really good stuff to try for a first conversion. Front end conversion is a totally different animal than rear end conversion.

 

The stock handguard works perfectly fine. Me personally I use it on both my guns. I really like the shape of it, it's very comfortable, and I added a rail to the bottom of each to put a stubby VFG on. I like it so much that the one I put an ultimak rail on for a red dot, that I cut out a square of it so I could still use it

 

A lot of people change handguards for the "heat reduction" and all the manufacturers advertise "cooler operation" but the fact of the matter is these guns get hot. Real hot. No matter what handguards, and very quickly. If you're after it for function the best is to use a VFG and/or wear gloves (I do both).

 

I see what you mean with the AK look if you are going for style. It's all up to you and how much/what work you want to do with the gun.

[Guest]

ok guys my restoraion is a little more closer to being complete, but im a little baffled on how to put on some of my parts, first is the gas tube, i know your supposed to turn that little lever on the side using the cleaning kit to do it, i did that but that gas tube is not budging not even a little. next how do i get the top wood handgaurd on my gas tube on, i dont want to break it. next taking off the shroud should i do it with a dremel or pipe cutter, i tried with a copper pipe cutter but broke it! if i were to use a dremel how do you keep it neat? now how do you get the retainer on? it looks i would have to take front end of the rifle to do this? lastly my ak mag falls out am i suppose to dremel the mag release a little? i already have the bullet guide installed, i know this is alot of questions, but i know i will get the best answers here! thanks...

 

 

you are having trouble getting the OLD gas tube OFF or getting the NEW one on..

 

trying to use a standard hand guard retainer is REALLY involved as pointed out.. thats why we suggested the bolt on ones...

 

when you say it falls out do you mean the lock does not engage?

[Guest]

remove a little metal.

 

just to be clear.. highlighted the important part here.. LOL

[Guest]

arrrrgghhhh! i got the standard retainer, man i dont think i wanna do all that... :snooty: the other stuff i could handle. boy this is making think really hard about going evil black, thats probably why you see more of them less work...i have to think now.... :doh: :roll: :?

 

 

if you use EITHER bolt on retainer, doing an "traditional ak style" is just as easy as a "evil black" style

[david8613 69]

ok i know its been awhile but i have been a little busy with stuff, i figured out why the gas tube would not come off, the damn gas piston! duh! :oops: anyway now im gonna modify the lower hand guard retainer and do the muzzle brake, any quick tips before proceed?

[FFDP82 4]

Fit the handguard retainer TIGHT. I am guessing you have the CSS one? Grind just enough material that the bolt will just barely slide through the groove, that will hold it nice and tight. If it fits on easily and loosely, it will come loose easily. What klnd of brake are you doing, 14x1 or 24x1.5mm?

[david8613 69]

i have the retainer thats not from css, i have to modify it in order to use it, i dont wanna take off the front sight and stuff, muzzle brake is the original style thats 14x1 but i havent removed the shroud that is covering my threads i hope! so i need some tips on that...

[FFDP82 4]

You want tips on a 14x1, don't bother, save yourself the time and money. The 14x1 brakes are little more than fishing weights and will not help with recoil any. If you have the TAPCO 74 'style' brake or the slant one you literally have a piece of junk. Not trying to be mean, just honest. Removing the FSB and pinning on a proper 24x1.5mm brake and your best bet is to go that route. There are plenty of diagrams, tutorials and blueprints for that.

 

Either way, ditch the 14x1 crap and go with 24mm, a monkey could change the front sight block. Literally all you need is a sledge hammer and a wood block. With a little oil, you don't need either, and can just pound the block on by ramming the gun against a table, side of the house, etc. I'm laughing but I'm not joking, it's really how it's done. Think about it, douche bags build these things from the ground up in caves, no reason an educated American can't do one little mod in the garage. The 24mm brakes work better, have no legal issues with threads, and require less tools to install.

[david8613 69]

the muzzle brake i picked up on gun broker the foriegn one i thought it was authentic, how do i check it verses a fake one? i already started cutting the shroud with a little pipe cutter but was thinking dremel might be quicker, so i commited i gotta finish it.. as for the retainer i need to make the one pictured in this thread above, if its ok to do that.

[FFDP82 4]

Do you have a photo of the muzzle brake? If it is the "slanted nut" looking ones, or anything TAPCO, it unfortunately is junk

 

Also yes, you can definitely make the retainer like shown above. You just cut it to shape like the one shown above, use a 10-32 screw for the cam, and also, after you finish doing the cuts, take the retainer and heat it red hot with a propane torch, and keep it red hot for maybe a minute or so, then let it cool slowly in the air. That will soften up the metal and make it slip over the barrel easier.

 

And yeah, for removing the shroud dremel works good, just cut along the circumference, and go very slow and check often, don't want to cut into the barrel.