Shooting it dirty

[robot_hell 72]

Hi all,

 

I just bought a 1911 and I'd like to test its limits to see how long it can go without a cleaning before becoming unreliable. Logic, however, tells me that shooting it dirty increases wear on parts that make friction contact, and that's not something I want to do.

 

Normally I plan to keep this gun maintained by cleaning and oiling after every 2 or 3 range sessions, but I would be doing this test very sparingly to measure the gun's initial reliability (and later to see how it changes over time).

 

Am I worried for nothing (i.e. is it not a big deal as long as I don't do it often)? Should I break it in normally first?

[Cylinder Head 22]

It's a 1911, not a Glock. Break it in normally, then try and play around with filth tolerances.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Logic, however, tells me that shooting it dirty increases wear on parts that make friction contact, and that's not something I want to do.

 

I agree with you on this but don't think you will measurably shorten the life of your 1911 by doing so. I have never felt the desire to do this to a gun and have run 500-600 rds through a 1911 with no malfunctions. If you want to do your own torture test go for it. As you have stated, I would fire several sessions first to ensure the gun is broken in before you do your test.

 

As far as Glocks go, I remember reading an article by Peter Kokalis. At that time he had run 170,000 rds through his Glock 17 with no cleaning and no malfunctions. If you wanted to do this with a Glock it would obviously be a very big investment in ammo.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Sorry, I generally belong to the school of "Shoot it 'til it malfunctions and then clean it" - especially with 1911's. Not so much an issue anymore, as I don't shoot near enough to make that a reality - guilt usually occurs before malfunction. But back in the day, when I shot IPSC and was shooting about 800 - 1000 rounds a month out of my 1911, the first sign that it required cleaning was when the slide would no longer lock-back on an empty mag. This usually occurred around 1500 rounds fired - and those were lead SWC, so the bullet lube gummed things up considerably more than jacketed bullet loads.

 

I really think that people tend to overclean their firearms - which may (please note that I said "may" - I have no empirical proof) cause more wear & tear than "shooting it dirty". It should also be noted that a dirty weapon is more likely to shoot to POA. Now dirty, in this instance, can mean as few as one round down the bore before shooting for score. This is more applicable to long arms than handguns and is evidenced by competitive shooters shooting a "fouler" before going for score.

 

Stop worrying and shoot the damn thing. :mrgreen:

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[sirsloop 1]

I clean my pt-99 somewhere in the vicinity of 200-400 rounds. Cleaning it is so simple, so see no reason not to do it. Last night I shot 80 rounds though it, its at home dirty now. Tomorrow I'm going to probably run 250 rds through it... so it'll get cleaned tomorrow night. If you spend a grand plus on a pistol, why would you want to run the thing until it fails? Just for the fun of it? In the real world will you ever need to shoot 1500 rounds without cleaning the pistol? Just seems like a test that has meaningless results.

[Don't Tread On Me 4]

I clean my pt-99 somewhere in the vicinity of 200-400 rounds. Cleaning it is so simple, so see no reason not to do it. Last night I shot 80 rounds though it, its at home dirty now. Tomorrow I'm going to probably run 250 rds through it... so it'll get cleaned tomorrow night. If you spend a grand plus on a pistol, why would you want to run the thing until it fails? Just for the fun of it? In the real world will you ever need to shoot 1500 rounds without cleaning the pistol? Just seems like a test that has meaningless results.

 

I agree, also God forbid you need the gun one night and the thing jams because you were trying out the "shooting it dirty" method. Just don't see the point IMO. However, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the results.

[robot_hell 72]

Lots of good responses on both sides. I've decided that while I won't be cleaning it after every range trip, I'm not going to intentionally foul up the gun.

 

Thanks all

[Krdshrk 3,877]

IMO if you're using the gun for home defense as well, I would make sure it's clean. You don't want any jams/misfires/etc if you're trying to save your life.

 

Also practice malfunction drills!

[robot_hell 72]

I'm interested in practicing malfunction drills; how do I simulate that without jamming up the gun on purpose?

[Malsua 1,422]

I'm interested in practicing malfunction drills; how do I simulate that without jamming up the gun on purpose?

 

Load a snap cap in the mags is one way.

[jeff47 30]

Besides jamming up the gun on purpose to simulate say an extraction failure, you can add dummy rounds in the mag while you shoot or just while you're sitting in your living room to try them out. When I took the MDTS training, once we performed the malfunctoin drills we loaded every mag thereafter with at least one of these things, at random places in the mag. So while we were going through the rest of the drills (some of which were speed drills) the gun would jam at least once per mag and force you to clear it. Really drove home the drills and it became second nature very quickly. If you've never done any formal tactical handgun training and are considering using the gun for self defense, I'd highly recommend it. Well worth it in my opinion.

[robot_hell 72]

But wouldn't a snap cap just simulate a failed primer? Rack the slide and get another round. It wouldn't really help with learning how to clear FTF and FTEs.

[Malsua 1,422]

But wouldn't a snap cap just simulate a failed primer? Rack the slide and get another round. It wouldn't really help with learning how to clear FTF and FTEs.

 

If you get a failure to feed or eject that isn't solved by racking the slide, the gun is out of commission in a firefight. What else is it you want to simulate? Besides, a failed primer IS a failure to fire and a failure to eject. It's not a doublefeed or a misfeed, but those usually involve removing the mag, holding the slide back and shaking it or something equally silly.

 

I suppose you could grind some flat spots on the bullets to cause it to fail to feed properly, but really, unless you're training for the sandbox, does it really matter that much?

[robot_hell 72]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[sirsloop 1]

I would just randomly load snapcaps in mags. It wont simulate a stovepipe, but it will allow you to practice tap/rack. It'll also give you a great opportunity to recognize anticipation or poor trigger pulls when shooting. Ya know if you pull the trigger and notice you drop your wrist or move left/right. Its a great way to realize things you need to work on.

 

I saw a number of malfunctions last night at the SS fun shoot. There were a few wacky magazine issues, a guy that was having problems with FTE due to light reloads, and I had one stovepipe. I was having problems with FTF with some crap bullets a while back and got plenty of tap+rack practice. The stovepipe was cleared without thought and I still placed very well.

[jermz1987 243]

Just drop that sucker in some mud before going to the range. LOL