1 Trigger pull, 2 shots on 1911 Gold Cup

[shazbot 3]

Hey everyone, I'm just getting back into shooting. Used to do it a lot when I was a kid with my Dad. I've been shooting a Colt Gold Cup Nat'l Match MK IV/Series 70 and most of the time it shoots great, but last time I was out at the range I was getting an unintentional double-tap when I would fire. I'm shooting reloads that my Dad/Grandfather had made. Last time I shot it only happened once or twice, but this last time it was almost once or twice every mag (I usually put 50-100 rounds through it each time out) My buddy shot off 3 mags or so and it didn't happen to him.

 

So I can only think it's one of a couple things...

 

1) user error - I'm doing some thing to cause a bump-fire because of the light trigger, though I feel if I squeeze too fast I'm gonna throw off my aim, it's usually very deliberate

2) ammo - it's 20 years old, but some boxes fire just fine, no definitive correlation

3) mechanical - some part is wearing out (it's a 28 year old gun). Though if I pull the trigger, hold it, and manually rack the slide, the hammer stays in place. (read that on another site) (EDIT: while the gun is empty to check if the action is working properly) Next time I'm out I'm gonna check to see if the primers are being dimpled after loading to indicate if the firing pin is hitting the next round (perhaps it's getting stuck?)

 

So can anyone offer any insight to this or perhaps give some tips on trigger squeezing? I usually do a very slow pull, with my left hand cupping my right and my left index finger on the trigger guard.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Maksim 1,504]

um...... tooo much stuff wrong with this post.

 

Has the gun been shot in the past? If you are shooting a 45 ACP your first time out, it is very likely you are bump firing the gun.

 

Not knowing anything else, either 1. get the gun inspected by a competent gunsmith, buy a new box of ammo and let an experienced shooter try the gun.

 

And why would you be holding the trigger while racking the slide?!?!?!

 

In any case, I would not be shooting reloads from 20 years ago that I did not load myself, but that is just me.

[Maksim 1,504]

btw, welcome to the forum. Having re-read your post, and seeing that your buddy shot it no problem, yes, its most likely you.

 

You are most likely hitting it the second time from recoil... you shouldn't be pulling the trigger fast, but cleanly. take up the trigger, feel it break.

 

More importantly, I think it would be wise for you to take a class considering you haven't shot in a long time. You are shooting a fine handgun, but by all means it is not the best first handgun.

 

Will wait for a 1911 expert to see if it can be something mechanical.

[Malsua 1,422]

Sounds like a bump fire to me. It probably has a very light trigger so I'd work on Grip and see if it goes away. I wouldn't think the reloads would have anything to do with it but I certainly would buy some off the shelf stuff and see if the problem disappears. What would make it bump fire? Heavily overcharged? One would think that handloads for a match pistol would be consistent and charged to keep recoil low.

[Parker 213]

It sounds like you are pulling that light Gold Cup trip more than once to make it fire twice (bump fire as others have suggested.) I doubt it's the age of the gun, or the reloads.

 

Here is a detailed function check of the various safety features on a Series-70 style 1911 pistol. If these tests pass muster the problem may be the shooter and you need to adjust your grip accordingly, and press the trigger properly.

 

PS - make sure the pistol is UNLOADED before you perform these functions!

 

Safety/Function Checking a 1911:

http://www.coolgunsite.com/funcheck/function.htm

[tony357 386]

trigger pull is too light or sear and hammer are worn.. should have this checked by a gun smith a double tap could be deadly..

[lunker 274]

The trigger reset on a 1911 is very shot. It is easy to squeeze off unintentional second shots when you have a light trigger with a short reset. If you have stout loads in the gun, that makes it even easier. I have to use good trigger control on my 1911 in 10mm. It is VERY easy to keep pulling the trigger when the recoil is moving the frame.

[SpecialK 193]

It sounds like your 1911 is highly defective! For your and everyone else safety you should give it to me immediately. I will make sure that it is kept in a safe place

 

did you buy that? no? Ok fine everyone else is right User Error is most likely the culprit here.

[shazbot 3]

I checked the function and everything works as it should. Looks like I will have to work on my grip and pull I guess, just strange it is happening more frequently. I don't think I'm holding it too light, and I pull very slow (too slow?), no jerking. It's probably my follow-through and reset I need to work on. Would adjusting the trigger stop help with this? So the fully depressed trigger is 'further away' from the release point? Thanks for the help.

[Maksim 1,504]

Best bet to take someone from the forum to meet up with you next time you shoot.

[Guest schutzen-jager]

i'd say trigger bump caused by heavy recoil or loose grip or a worn or sticking disconnector -

[Shane45 807]

Take the trigger stop screw out completely and see if the problem goes away.

[Old School 611]

Take the trigger stop screw out completely and see if the problem goes away.

 

Yeah Shane - that's what I was thinking and hold the trigger back tight after each shot and let the disconnector do it's job. Also smiths have a tendency to make the trigger return leaf to light.

[creeper 16]

When was the last time it was detailed stripped and cleaned thoroughly?

 

Just be careful with the tiny sear spring and lever that are designed for Gold Cups they are easy to lose! ask me how I know

[PK90 3,570]

...

3) mechanical - some part is wearing out (it's a 28 year old gun). Though if I pull the trigger, hold it, and manually rack the slide, the hammer stays in place. (read that on another site) (EDIT: while the gun is empty to check if the action is working properly) Next time I'm out I'm gonna check to see if the primers are being dimpled after loading to indicate if the firing pin is hitting the next round (perhaps it's getting stuck?) ...

Do this and try to push the hammer off the sear.

[shazbot 3]

@creeper, I field strip, clean and lube the gun after every time out at the range, but I don't strip it down further than that.

 

@pk90, if I press the hammer forward - with decent force - the hammer does fall

[Guest schutzen-jager]

@creeper, I field strip, clean and lube the gun after every time out at the range, but I don't strip it down further than that.

 

@pk90, if I press the hammer forward - with decent force - the hammer does fall

definite hammer , sear engagement problem either from wear or a butchered trigger job - if not comfortable replaceing or recutting them yourself take it to a smith - also slight possibility that the notches are dirty , easy to check by taking them apart -

[creeper 16]

@creeper, I field strip, clean and lube the gun after every time out at the range, but I don't strip it down further than that.

 

@pk90, if I press the hammer forward - with decent force - the hammer does fall

 

Every once in a while it should be detail stripped dpwn to just a pile of parts , cleaned , inspected , oiled and reassembled . It sounds intimidating but its really very easy.

[shazbot 3]

Looks like there's a mechanical issue. If I lock back the slide and release it with the lever, the hammer falls to half-cock... Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith? I think they do it at Shore Shot, so I might just talk to them next time I'm there. Thanks.

[Shane45 807]

Did you ever remove the trigger overtravel screw?

[GRIZ 3,369]

When was the last time it was detailed stripped and cleaned thoroughly?

 

Just be careful with the tiny sear spring and lever that are designed for Gold Cups they are easy to lose! ask me how I know

 

I guess you gave the first reason I don't suggest detail stripping on a regular basis. If you are not 100% sure of what you're doing you can (and eventually will) lose parts, assemeble incorrectly or even damage your firearm. I can understand one wanting to detail strip to see how the gun works but there is absolutely no need to do so on a regular basis if the gun is cleaned properly after shooting unless the gun is broken. I have a Combat Commander I got slightly used in 1975 that worked fine, carried it as a duty gun for a few years, and the first time it was detail stripped was when it was rebuilt in 2000 after over 20,000 rounds.

 

If I lock back the slide and release it with the lever, the hammer falls to half-cock

 

This is a hammer, sear, trigger issue. This is what my Combat Commander started doing when I had it rebuilt. The lighter the trigger pull you want the more likely this is going to happen sooner. I like a 4-6 pound trigger on a 1911. If you "need" less of a trigger and you're not using the gun only for serious competition you're using trigger pull as a crutch and need to work on your basic shooting skills.

[creeper 16]

When was the last time it was detailed stripped and cleaned thoroughly?

 

Just be careful with the tiny sear spring and lever that are designed for Gold Cups they are easy to lose! ask me how I know

 

I guess you gave the first reason I don't suggest detail stripping on a regular basis. If you are not 100% sure of what you're doing you can (and eventually will) lose parts, assemeble incorrectly or even damage your firearm. I can understand one wanting to detail strip to see how the gun works but there is absolutely no need to do so on a regular basis if the gun is cleaned properly after shooting unless the gun is broken. I have a Combat Commander I got slightly used in 1975 that worked fine, carried it as a duty gun for a few years, and the first time it was detail stripped was when it was rebuilt in 2000 after over 20,000 rounds.

 

If I lock back the slide and release it with the lever, the hammer falls to half-cock

 

This is a hammer, sear, trigger issue. This is what my Combat Commander started doing when I had it rebuilt. The lighter the trigger pull you want the more likely this is going to happen sooner. I like a 4-6 pound trigger on a 1911. If you "need" less of a trigger and you're not using the gun only for serious competition you're using trigger pull as a crutch and need to work on your basic shooting skills.

I detail strip every 5000 rounds , I enjoy taking them apart and reaasembling. That said I also only detail strip my 1911's .

[GRIZ 3,369]

I detail strip every 5000 rounds , I enjoy taking them apart and reaasembling. That said I also only detail strip my 1911's .

 

If that makes you happy fine. What I'm saying is there is no reason to do so if the gun is field stripped and properly cleaned on a regular basis.

[shazbot 3]

I took it up to at Armament Gunsmithing in Hillside and he adjusted the sear... works flawlessly now, I definitely would recommend him.