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The older M1A that I guess got banned?

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So apparently we were offically told Colt Match Target series AR-15/M4 style rifles are good and the new Springfield Armory M1A is allowed.

 

They said the OLD M1A had features which are still evil and therefore isn't un-banned, ergo- is still banned... but the new one has changes. So I ask you, if some one I knew of who knew someone who had a bobs-your-uncle-and-Dad-and jimmboy-brother... had an older M1A that became banned... Could he take the steps to correct whatevr the problem is and then it would now be legal? And what would those steps be?

 

Thanks very interested in this,,.,,

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So apparently we were offically told Colt Match Target series AR-15/M4 style rifles are good and the new Springfield Armory M1A is allowed.

 

They said the OLD M1A had features which are still evil and therefore isn't un-banned, ergo- is still banned... but the new one has changes. So I ask you, if some one I knew of who knew someone who had a bobs-your-uncle-and-Dad-and jimmboy-brother... had an older M1A that became banned... Could he take the steps to correct whatevr the problem is and then it would now be legal? And what would those steps be?

 

Thanks very interested in this,,.,,

Others may have more info to offer, but I'll take a stab at this. Springfield M1A's post-1994 are legal to own. I assume the arm you are talking about was purchased prior to 1994? If I were you, first I would ask this question to Bobs-your-uncle-and-Dad-and-jimmboy-brother; "Prior to when the ban went into effect in 1994, did you declare and register this arm in 1993 like you were supposed to and pay the $50 fee?" Because, those who had these back then could do such. And only then. If they didn't, it's illegal to possess.

 

Here's some other info: http://www.ehow.com/list_6755650_rifles-legal-new-jersey_.html

"The Springfield M1A rifle is another such model that has been modified by manufacturers to be legal for sale and possession in New Jersey. Only Springfield models manufactured after 1994 possess performance measures that are not substantially identical to banned assault rifles. Springfield M1A models built before 1994 are illegal to possess or use. In order to make sure that the model you are using or about to purchase is legal, you may call in to the manufacturer with the rifle's serial number to determine a specific manufacturing date."

 

And I wish you all the luck in the world searching out any more info on the NJSP site to assist you. It's a daunting task to say the least.

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I'de assume the pre assault weapon ban rifles had the bayonet lug intact. Simply remove it and you will be good to go with only one evil feature (flash hider). Or if it was registered in 93, it doesnt matter.

Unless it was properly registered in '93, a serial number below 76xxx technically makes any M1A in New Jersey a pre-94 gun, with or without the lug intact. All the '94 ban did was remove the bayonet lug from the production M1A's. Nothing else changed. High-power shooters lobbying the AG's office to make an exception for the revised model helped reverse things in 1997. I know the ban law is based on operation, capacity and appearances; but why put yourself in a position to test a junior prosecutor's mettle? Technicalities have a way of making or breaking a case in court. Unless you are wealthy, err on the side of caution.

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Right, so if you remove the lug on a pre 94 gun that wasnt registered, isnt it now compliant?

 

Its like saying you had an AR15 kicking around with a bayonet lug and a muzzle brake(legal). OOPS, not legal here! Cut off the lug. Tada! Legal!

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Right, so if you remove the lug on a pre 94 gun that wasnt registered, isnt it now compliant?

 

Its like saying you had an AR15 kicking around with a bayonet lug and a muzzle brake(legal). OOPS, not legal here! Cut off the lug. Tada! Legal!

An AR-15 with the lug removed is technically still an AR-15 and is banned in N.J. Even Jackie Chiles would struggle with a judge as he dances around cosmetic accomodations that have been made to make things right vs. the way the law is written. By grinding the lug away, does this action fall under the "defacing of a firearm" clause which is a punishable offense? I dunno. I don't want to find out. Interesting conversation, but one that shows how convoluted the laws in New Jersey are. Maybe I am making more of it than it should be, but attorney fees are nothing to sneeze at today.

 

Source: http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

 

The following are not considered assault firearms within the meaning of this definition:

1. The Colt Match Target rifle, based on the manufacturer's specifications, is not part of the

AR-15 series, and, thus, is not prohibited under N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w(1). Although this rifle

may resemble the Colt AR-15, there have been substantial changes to the firearm, including

the receiver, which is not identical to an AR-15 receiver. In addition, because of changes in

the configuration of the firearm, the Colt Match Target rifle is not substantially identical to

a firearm prohibited under this classification.

 

2. The Springfield M1A rifle is not one of the enumerated firearms which are specifically

prohibited under the State assault firearms laws. It has been prohibited in this State as being

substantially identical to a named firearm. However, according to the manufacturer's

specifications, the M1A has been modified. The modified M1A, which became available in

1994, is not considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm under N.J.S.A.

2C:39-1w(2) and these rules. However, earlier versions of the M1A, which contain at least

two of the criteria identified in the Attorney General's Guidelines Regarding the

"Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault Firearms Laws dated August 19,

1996 and reproduced in paragraph 2 above, are considered to be substantially identical to a

prohibited firearm and continue to be defined as an assault firearm.

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There is a list you can find (I think on AR15.com?) that denotes serialized lowers and what constitutes pre-ban definition vs. post-ban definition by manufacturer for AR-type black rifles. Uppers as we know on Colt-clones are not serialized, lowers are. Colt alone has 18 different series, with the Match Target designations starting in 1998. For the M1A's you can get some general serial number information on http://m14tfl.com/upload/ or contact SA if you're unsure. One needs to be a Harvard-educated lawyer to decipher the gobbbledygook laws today. Evan is doing a fine business in New Jersey because of such.

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Parker and Glenn both thank you and both have the points I'm tryin to make.

 

So Parker, you're saying there were steps necessary about registering at ban time etc. Lets just say I don't know and I understand the part that makes it illegal to possess. I don't have one I'm just sounding something out here.

 

Glenn I'm thinking like you, if you then therefore removed the illegal features, whatever they are (and I'm not sure I haven't been up close and personal on an M1A, I know they are one of the Mothers Of All Rifles but I haven't had the pleasure yet) ... could the steps be taken to make it legal now, or because it's BEEN illegal it stays illegal?

 

Thanks guys i"m not trying to stir the pot I'm trying to figure this out for real.

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When they added the section concerning the M1A to the statute they left off the last sentence from the original AG letter that would help clarify what they're saying;

 

However, earlier versions of the M1A, which contain at least two of the criteria identified... are considered to be substantially identical to a

prohibited firearm and continue to be defined as an assault firearm.

 

Here's what they left off;

"As a result, it will be necessary to clearly distinguish the physical characteristics or lack of physical characteristics when making a determination regarding the M1A rifle."

 

In other words, they don't look at the serial number / manufacture date, they look at the features. If it was made after 1994 it's automatically good to go, (unless someone added evil features to it later). If it was made before 1994 then one of the evil features must be removed, (bayonet lug).

 

I confirmed this with the State Police last year when I bought one. :)

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When they added the section concerning the M1A to the statute they left off the last sentence from the original AG letter that would help clarify what they're saying;

 

 

 

Here's what they left off;

"As a result, it will be necessary to clearly distinguish the physical characteristics or lack of physical characteristics when making a determination regarding the M1A rifle."

 

In other words, they don't look at the serial number / manufacture date, they look at the features. If it was made after 1994 it's automatically good to go, (unless someone added evil features to it later). If it was made before 1994 then one of the evil features must be removed, (bayonet lug).

 

I confirmed this with the State Police last year when I bought one. :)

 

 

I win! B)

 

BTW, shane, I really dont think its gray. Made before 94, its substantially identical because of the features. Made after, and they arent because they didnt make them with the features. Remove an evil feature on a pre 94 rifle, and its no longer substantially identical. I think this ones pretty clear (for once)

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Shane, I agree with you that it's usually better to be safe than sorry and different departments may look at things differently... But these rifles are just too darn cool to play it safe!!! :icon_e_biggrin:

 

Seriously, I don't really think this particular passage is gray either. They never say earlier versions are banned, they say "...earlier versions of the M1A, which contain at least two of the criteria...are defined as an assault firearm."

So by definition, earlier versions with only one of the criteria... are not defined as an assault firearm.

 

But of course that is using logic and we all know how NJ legislators feel about that! <_<

 

At any rate, I keep a copy of the AG letter rolled up in the buttstock just in case.

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If I do get an M1A, it wont be a SA anyway. I want one from LRB that uses a real forged reciever compared to Springfields Cast reciever.

 

Shane,

That LRB is nice, and not cheap either! You do get what you pay for these days. I've read some good things about them on the M14 forum. I picked up a SA "loaded" back in the 90's, before the ink dried on the Attorney General's signature noting the M1A as an accepted legal shooter in N.J. For an investment cast frame, it will suffice fine for the civilian shooter. Doubt I will ever put 400,000 rounds through it like some G.I. forged receivers are rated, and I will admit the machining quality isn't as perfect as my '39 Garand, but it's better than some I've seen today and the rifle is a shooter. Its only liability is me behind it. My SA still uses a lot of ex-GI parts like NM trigger group, op. rod, TRW bolt, etc. I don't know how the new ones are built today so can't comment on that. I shoot some factory fodder but mostly reloads. I started working up some new handloads this summer with H4895 and so far have been pleased. So far, this rifle seems to prefer a mild reload of 168 gr. Horn. BTHP's over H4895.

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Guest Damagedworld

Shane,

That LRB is nice, and not cheap either! You do get what you pay for these days. I've read some good things about them on the M14 forum. I picked up a SA "loaded" back in the 90's, before the ink dried on the Attorney General's signature noting the M1A as an accepted legal shooter in N.J. For an investment cast frame, it will suffice fine for the civilian shooter. Doubt I will ever put 400,000 rounds through it like some G.I. forged receivers are rated, and I will admit the machining quality isn't as perfect as my '39 Garand, but it's better than some I've seen today and the rifle is a shooter. Its only liability is me behind it. My SA still uses a lot of ex-GI parts like NM trigger group, op. rod, TRW bolt, etc. I don't know how the new ones are built today so can't comment on that. I shoot some factory fodder but mostly reloads. I started working up some new handloads this summer with H4895 and so far have been pleased. So far, this rifle seems to prefer a mild reload of 168 gr. Horn. BTHP's over H4895.

 

Some pics:

 

 

100 yd. group w/ some 147gr. ball:

 

 

200 yd. group with Fed. factory 150 gr. FMJBT:

 

 

Best 3-shot group @ 200 yds. during load development:

 

 

3-shot measurement using OnTarget softare:

 

 

that software is neat where did you get it?

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that software is neat where did you get it?

 

The direct link is here: http://www.ontargetshooting.com/

 

I found this S/W on http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html. It's come in handy and is sometimes easier than carting home all those targets and measuring them. Often I just snap the picture at the range with my cellphone camera and ship it directly my Photobucket or my email, then import the image later into the OnTarget application and measure. Wish I had all these tools and websites back in the 70's when I started shooting rifles. :icon_e_biggrin:

 

Another one I've downloaded but used only a little is S/W called Point Blank. It does not have the ability to import targets (I've only played with this one sparingly, so haven't found this function,) but it does has some neat calculators in it as well as trajectory tables tailored for your specific bullet provided you input the correct variables. Download here: http://www.huntingnut.com/index.php?name=News&topic=4

 

 

Thanks Shane. I enjoy the M1A.

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