bulpup 98 Posted October 9, 2010 The NRA has argued the "slippery Slope" to death, why isn't a $500 CCW a slippery slope in our favor? I do not believe it is a 'S.S.' to more fees, some of course, but really, what a flood gate it could be. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob B 103 Posted October 9, 2010 The NRA has argued the "slippery Slope" to death, why isn't a $500 CCW a slippery slope in our favor? I do not believe it is a 'S.S.' to more fees, some of course, but really, what a flood gate it could be. It's not just a $500 fee. $500 annual fee The law is silent on who pays for Sagem Morpho (fingerprints) so expect to pay $62 Semi-annual qualification - at least $200 per year for ammo and the class Bi-annual psych evaluation - $1000 every two years?????(who knows) Judge still has the ability place restrictions Permit can still be denied based on "character" That's $1262 per year on average. Let's say I'm off a bit, it's still $1000 per year. The best option at this point is to call and/or write to your legislators and the members of the Law and Public Safety Committee of both houses and let them know that you would rather they schedule a committee hearing, release, vote on and pass S69/A1384. And if they schedule the hearing, make sure you show up... you know the anti's will be there. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianargent 7 Posted October 11, 2010 My preference would be for NJ to adopt a moderate version of the Castle Doctrine that would not require us to retreat from our own home and exempt us from civil lawsuits as well. NJ law does not require retreat from the home. Use of deadly force is limited, however. The places to look at 2C3-4, 3-5. 3-6 and 3-9. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted October 11, 2010 NJ law does not require retreat from the home. Use of deadly force is limited, however. The places to look at 2C3-4, 3-5. 3-6 and 3-9. Tried by 12 than carried by 6... I want civil suit protection first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest megaman Posted October 13, 2010 Stop being a bunch of beatches, you have no rights now. Pay 500 and get them, then argue about the cost. The Governor can line item anything he wants in legislation he signs, so maybe he signs it, then line items that the fee is 250 every 5 years... This is how NJ works, work within the system to break it. On another note, my sources tell me this bill is moving right along, no delays, not stuck in committee or any shenanigans that would hold this up from coming to the floor. The repubs will be lock step on this, and some dems will come over because they are in conservative districts. The senate president is also from south jers, even though he is a dem, his people in those districts pay attention. Rich farmers down there. They have guns, are pro rights. We have a very good shot of getting this passed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joejaxx 38 Posted October 13, 2010 Stop being a bunch of beatches, you have no rights now. Pay 500 and get them, then argue about the cost. The Governor can line item anything he wants in legislation he signs, so maybe he signs it, then line items that the fee is 250 every 5 years... This is how NJ works, work within the system to break it. On another note, my sources tell me this bill is moving right along, no delays, not stuck in committee or any shenanigans that would hold this up from coming to the floor. The repubs will be lock step on this, and some dems will come over because they are in conservative districts. The senate president is also from south jers, even though he is a dem, his people in those districts pay attention. Rich farmers down there. They have guns, are pro rights. We have a very good shot of getting this passed. Just as a note to everyone: The Assembly version of the Senate bill was just introduced by two other democrats to the committee on the 7th. Assembly Bill: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A3500/3322_I1.HTM Status: 10/7/2010 Introduced, Referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_G 51 Posted October 13, 2010 Even if some how this gets passed, do you really think our "republican" governor who agrees with our current gun laws would sign it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted October 13, 2010 for a guy like me, this makes no sense. I work in a job, where I cant have a weapon on company grounds nor vehicles. I drive a company vehicle to work. So I would only be able to carry weekends and at night sitting in my living rm. I would also need to pay for me and my wife. It just doesn't make financial sense to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted October 13, 2010 Maybe not being $500 a year, but what if it became something like PA's $26/5 years? I cant carry a weapon at work either, nor would I want to with the work I do. But I would be more than willing to get a small safe to store in my car while I am at work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted October 13, 2010 a little confused.. I just skimmed the wording again.. and it says that renewal will require psych exam but I do not see it mentioned for the initial permit.. again it is written in confusing lawyer language.. so who knows.. anyone care to clear up my confusion? and maybe it has been stated already.. but this is concealed carry? not open carry? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joejaxx 38 Posted October 13, 2010 a little confused.. I just skimmed the wording again.. and it says that renewal will require psych exam but I do not see it mentioned for the initial permit.. again it is written in confusing lawyer language.. so who knows.. anyone care to clear up my confusion? and maybe it has been stated already.. but this is concealed carry? not open carry? From what I have read: Yes, only the renewal requires a psych exam every two years. It is for both types of carry. New Jersey does not care which one you do as long as you have a permit for it (unless the permit has a restriction on it that you can only do one or the other). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted October 13, 2010 Oh so you can OC as well? I thought that it was for CC only. Oh well....if given the option, I would NEVER OC over CC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob B 103 Posted October 13, 2010 fyi, the Assembly version of this bill, A3322, is sponsored by Nelson Albano, the Vice-Chair of the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee. Yes, the same committee that has held up A1384 for 15 years. Looks like they are serious. Start saving your pocket change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted October 13, 2010 It would make my day if this actually came to be.... However, by the time I had the cash saved up for a pistol I could carry, and saved up the cash to get the permit.....the price would be lowered due to everyone fighting it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted October 13, 2010 From what I have read: Yes, only the renewal requires a psych exam every two years. so give out the permits.. let people carry for two years.. then should they wish to renew they will have to evaluate their mental health... makes total sense! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimmyAGR 54 Posted October 13, 2010 so give out the permits.. let people carry for two years.. then should they wish to renew they will have to evaluate their mental health... makes total sense! Makes as much sense as most of NJ's other firearm laws. NJ never does things with common sense in mind. The people who make these laws have no idea what they are voting on, and have no experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genewarper111 18 Posted October 13, 2010 wow...... OK so - get the permit, its valid for one year - pay the next $500 (EEK!!!), after two years see some kind of shrink - ($$??mega??) and then pay another 500 etc... hmm not exactly available to the masses I'd say. The next question is really what courses are considered 'satisfactory' - most importantly, will the State set its own courses or will (say) NRA PPOH be suitable - or anything between PPOH and Hunters' Ed...? Then there's the slight question of the extent to which the issuing court will exercise its option to place restrictions on the permit: "The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried." And of course - does one need a permit for each gun one might wish to carry (Sig p239 one day, Walther PPS the next, Sig 229 if it's raining, or PA carry (always have a revolver in a fanny pack...)) - see quotation above... I guess it doesn't seem very straightforward, which is worrying. .. and $500 a year..... ...wow G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbtrout 141 Posted October 14, 2010 This bill harkens back to the Facially Neutral Laws inacted to keep freed slaves from owning guns. Impose Taxes that are outrageous and keep financially affordable guns away from those deemed undesirable. Only with this it is done with outrageous fees and exams. I still can't believe so many are willing to bend over and take it. No wonder we live in such a fucked up state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted October 14, 2010 This bill harkens back to the Facially Neutral Laws inacted to keep freed slaves from owning guns. Impose Taxes that are outrageous and keep financially affordable guns away from those deemed undesirable. Only with this it is done with outrageous fees and exams. I still can't believe so many are willing to bend over and take it. No wonder we live in such a fucked up state. If it passes..you can go after the fees as unconstitutional. if it doesnt you have Squat.... Im not going to argue anymore you guys do whatever you want... pass/fail Get the permit. Dont. Doesnt matter to me a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbtrout 141 Posted October 14, 2010 You know, maybe I just make a bad Politician. I do not understand supporting something you do not like just to pass it and have the intention of saying you do not like it after. It seems disingenuous to me. I may be wrong. But I believe a principled argument should not compromise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joecs1 11 Posted October 14, 2010 You know, maybe I just make a bad Politician. I do not understand supporting something you do not like just to pass it and have the intention of saying you do not like it after. It seems disingenuous to me. I may be wrong. But I believe a principled argument should not compromise. I "think" the thought process is for those that "can" afford it its just obscene. But there could be no Constitutional issue until we get it passed, and the 1st person who clearly cant afford it, a challenge by the NRA, and every pro-gun group in NJ, challenge the fees and restrictions. I think thats the thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 4 Posted October 15, 2010 If it passes..you can go after the fees as unconstitutional. if it doesnt you have Squat.... Im not going to argue anymore you guys do whatever you want... pass/fail Get the permit. Dont. Doesnt matter to me a bit. I agree with this approach. Appear to "bend over" to get the bill passed and then use the legal system to "switch positions" if you will. Using the legal system we could surely get the cost down as well as fight the restrictions and possibly the pych exam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted October 15, 2010 I do not understand supporting something you do not like just to pass it and have the intention of saying you do not like it after. It seems disingenuous to me. I may be wrong. But I believe a principled argument should not compromise. You seem to forget that this is Jersey, where it always takes money to get anything going. Being vocal about issues and having no financial backing gets you nowhere. Give huge political contributions and expect stuff to sway in your favor. Remember, the CCW bill has been hanging in limbo for years, going nowhere. It took one politician adding something that may end up as a source of revenue for the state to get the ball rolling again. Money talks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbtrout 141 Posted October 16, 2010 You seem to forget that this is Jersey, where it always takes money to get anything going. Being vocal about issues and having no financial backing gets you nowhere. Give huge political contributions and expect stuff to sway in your favor. Remember, the CCW bill has been hanging in limbo for years, going nowhere. It took one politician adding something that may end up as a source of revenue for the state to get the ball rolling again. Money talks. I understand corruption, but it does not mean I believe in it. I think we are better than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted October 16, 2010 We may be, but the politicians that make the laws are not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites