Guns need to be registered?

[Jon 264]

I believe at issue here is not the direct ownership or possession of he pistol, rather how, when, where you acquired it and more importantly how you brought it into the state. I believe that the transportation of a pistol purchased in another state into NJ is illegal. Hence, in order to be compliant, you would need to do a FFL to FFL transfer. In order to do that, you need a FPID and a PPP, which would effectively register the gun anyway.

 

If you were a resident of PA, purchased a handgun, and then moved to NJ, you would be permitted to bring the handgun with you and would not need to register it.

[Freedom-First 2]

If you were a resident of PA, purchased a handgun, and then moved to NJ, you would be permitted to bring the handgun with you and would not need to register it.

 

Can you post statute on that?

[mrjam2jab 9]

Can you post statute on that?

 

Can you post statute showing your thought?

[Freedom-First 2]

Can you post statute showing your thought?

 

I will try - but that's why I was asking. I'm not challenging you, I am just trying to learn and confirm. Internet - lots of erroneous info from well intentioned individuals.

 

I will research again, my thoughts were from reading the laws years ago and many discussions.

 

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Malsua 1,422]

There is no mandatory registration of firearms.

 

Pistol permits to Purchase are for PURCHASE, not ownership.

 

If you own guns, inherited or legally purchased, including legally purchased in a different state, you've met the legal requirements under the law.

[Freedom-First 2]

If you own guns, inherited or legally purchased, including legally purchased in a different state, you've met the legal requirements under the law.

 

 

But this is where it becomes convoluted... you need to be able to demonstrate how you came into possession of the firearm. If you can't, then you are automatically presumed guilty.... is my understanding.

 

This is an area that always creates debate.. FID is for purchase not ownership/possession... understood.

 

The problem is that the common perception however is that FID is a qualifying license to possess or own and this concept even permeates many Law enforcement agencies.

 

So, an arrest is made and it takes an attorney and a few (several) thousand $$$ by the time you prove you were ligit.

[kenw 293]

The fact remains that there is no requirement to register any firearm legally acquired in another state that meets NJ compliance laws.

 

There is a difference between illegally possessing a firearm and possessing an illegal firearm.

 

If I toss my perfectly legal handguns in the trunk of my car and drive to McDonald's, take in a movie, and go visit my friends in Totowa, I am illegally transporting guns, notwithstanding the legality of the guns themselves. I'm not required to carry an FID card to prove that I'm allowed to have and own guns, and in that case, it wouldn't matter. I would have broken the law in spite of the fact that I am legally allowed to own and possess firearms in NJ, and that the firearms in my possession are perfectly legal to own in NJ.

 

If I had lived in a free state and legally purchased a non-compliant gun and subsequently became a resident of NJ, applied for and received an FID card, even bought some more guns here, and it was found in my possession, I would be in possession of an illegal gun notwithstanding my status as someone who may legally purchase, possess and own guns in NJ.

 

There is no real necessity or requirement to prove ownership on demand. If the gun is illegal to own in NJ, even if you're the legal owner, you're screwed, and, if you're illegally in possession of the gun, even if it's legal to own in NJ, you're screwed.

 

Simple, isn't it??

[Malsua 1,422]

you need to be able to demonstrate how you came into possession of the firearm. If you can't, then you are automatically presumed guilty.... is my understanding.

 

Where does this come from? I don't see anything in 2C about possession other than legal or not legal possession. Nothing about purchasing other than how to go about legally purchasing in NJ.

 

Here's the relevant statue

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful Possession of Weapons.

 

b. Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

And the exemptions: 2c:39 6e and f

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

(1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

[Freedom-First 2]

Thanks for the replies and statutes.

 

I understand and see your position.

 

Maybe I'm looking at it from a practical standpoint being that the laws are somewhat convoluted and the really skirt the line of what is allowed and not allowed constitutionally.

 

IMHO - the FID is like a little insurance policy. If you qualify to have one, then no problem... and it could make your life a lot easier in the case where an undereducated LEO decided to confiscate first and ask questions later. It's just a little paperwork...right? In today's environment, I don't want to have the need to argue with any official that I am in legal possession of a firearm, but in almost all cases, the presentation of an FID card will satisfy any LEO in terms of your legal qualification to have the gun. You may be correct to the letter of the law...Just my opinion.

[Malsua 1,422]

Thanks for the replies and statutes.

 

I understand and see your position.

 

Maybe I'm looking at it from a practical standpoint being that the laws are somewhat convoluted and the really skirt the line of what is allowed and not allowed constitutionally.

 

IMHO - the FID is like a little insurance policy. If you qualify to have one, then no problem... and it could make your life a lot easier in the case where an undereducated LEO decided to confiscate first and ask questions later. It's just a little paperwork...right? In today's environment, I don't want to have the need to argue with any official that I am in legal possession of a firearm, but in almost all cases, the presentation of an FID card will satisfy any LEO in terms of your legal qualification to have the gun. You may be correct to the letter of the law...Just my opinion.

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that having a Firarms PURCHASER ID card was a bad thing. It offers no legal protection whatsoever in relation to handguns. It is, in a sense a long gun carry permit. If you read the statutes it will prevent your conviction if you are outside of the exemptions but still within the transport guidelines. It does not permit you to carry a loaded long gun anywhere however but it makes it legal to have a long gun in places other than listed within the exemptions.

 

I think we will all agree that having a Purchaser ID on you could potentially forestall your arrest by an ill informed street cop on a stop. Legally however, if you pushed it enough and got an informed detective onto the scene and you were still legally within the exemptions, they'd probably let you go on your way. I'm not sure this has ever been tested or that there has ever been a case where someone who would have been arrested was non arrested upon producing a Purchaser ID.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I know I've been told by gun shops that if you drop off a firearm for gunsmithing work you will need a FID to pick it up again. If you don't have one they cannot TRANSFER it back to you. Another reason you should just get the FID card anyway.

[DonkeyPunch 9]

I just got off the phone with the Lower Township Police Department. They were very professional and cooperative. There was a two week period where they were checking that what I was saying was correct, but they have agreed to change their website to more accurately reflect the true legal requirements. The new language was read to me over the phone. It wasn't perfect, but the important errors have been corrected (I thought it wise not to dwell on the minutia). I was told that it will take a few days to update the website, but it will be updated to reflect the changes.

 

If anyone else has any similar problems with their local PD's, please post them. I, and NJ2AS will do our very best to work constructively with your PD to get the discrepancies corrected, while you are able to remain anonymous.

 

Thanks, OP, for bringing this up.

Just reading this for the first time now. Awesome! Thanks for doing that. I'm sure plenty were believing what was on their website was true due to it being on the website of a police department.