tactical vests

[tuktuk 16]

was trying to see if we ever discussed this topic. didnt find anything. so again as usual with me i apologize in advance if i missed the discussion on this topic BUT if we never did >>> LETS

 

TACTICAL VEST >>> you have one? want one? owned and burned it? useful or useless? cool factor? practical (used one in Mogadishu or in our eternal fight against zombies) or just looks good on pix? legal? throw in any intel you got.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I've got a few different vests that I use for Airsoft, but some of them are definitely up to mil-spec.

 

My favorite is my SOE CQB vest. Original SOE gear - with the black trim. This thing's near impossible to find now.

[bbk 188]

Some info here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/19059-magazine-rig/

[tuktuk 16]

Some info here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/19059-magazine-rig/

 

nice. very good intel, but still i wanna get a lil more specific if possible >>> talkin about full tactical vests. esp wud like to hear from our military/leo vets/current

[bbk 188]

An LBV/LBE, like every other piece of gear (to include firearms), is mission specific.

 

Understand that a vest or chest rig is considered the secondary line, while a belt is considered first line. Now, if you're just getting it for aesthetics, it doesn't really matter. But in a dynamic scenario, would I take the time to throw my chest rig on? Probably not (even though I might be able too).

 

We have ground pounding grunts on the forum that had to hump around the ridiculous loads that could give a better idea (notably mortar men and medics), as I didn't have to deal with that type of stuff daily. However, having a kit that can carry enough to arm a Sudanese militia (and feed them on the side) is not the smartest idea, and probably not even the most ideal. Pounds = pain, bottom line. There is a reason why the Army is constantly trying to optimize kits to lighten the load. There is a reason why more-task-specific units don't hump around the types of loads that our blessed infantry or combat medics do-- and it goes back to the fact that kits are ALWAYS mission specific.

 

Another factor that the US Army has been considering regarding kits is that with the proper training, an individual does not have to carry a combat load of 300+ rounds (albeit there are still units whose SOPs may dictate this). With an upswing in rifle marksmanship, task-driven units' SOPs might reflect a combat load of no more then 150-180 rounds (read: five or six 30 round magazines [these numbers do not reflect the practice of downloading two less rounds]). Again, this varies, but the consensus is that ALL units are trying to optimize kits (most notably trying to reduce weight).

 

Now, reducing weight/dead space on a rig can be done without the expense of ammunition. I think this is a bigger issue in NJ as we're only allowed 15 rounds, which in effect makes us double our magazine count (meaning if we want to be able to carry 150 rounds, it would take 10 magazines instead of just five, etc). This can be done in numerous ways, and is really about optimizing a "balance" that shifts weight away from creating stress points on your body (off your back or neck for example). Still, an addition of a belt, or extra pack might be a good idea as well.

 

With all of that said, my rigs are task specific. I don't expect to have to ever carry everything on my tactical nylon... SHTF, zombies, volcanoes, whatever. I honestly think its a bit too much, and a bit gimmicky. Instead, I run a chest rig that is similar to what I've trained/used prior, and its tasks would be a carbine course. In an HD situation, I run a Redi-Mag on my rifle, so, I'm not immediately screwed if the first magazine blue-falcons me. With the tinfoil hat on, if the worst were to happen, yes, I would still only run my chest rig, and compliment it with a pack and/or belt.

I do have an actual vest, but I've barely touched it since I bought it because I realized its useless to my needs. Its a total PITA to put on; not enough webbing; I don't run plates; and doesn't breathe well. I'm only holding on to it because I'd rather have it than not... plus I could always cut it up and use it like that.

 

If you're looking for cool factor, check out airsoft forums-- plenty of relevant threads I could imagine

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

A "Tactical Vest" has different meaning for different people. If you are going to war - or a SHTF scenario, then the previous posts would all apply. When I think of "Tactical Vest", I'm thinking more along the lines of a cover garment, like this one made by Woolrich...

 

http://www.woolrich....ct=44424=

 

I have two vests that were part of the departed SigTac line. They are a little more overt than the Woolrich offering because they have, what are obviously, mag pockets on the lower right. A lot of people consider this type of vest too obvious, but I have found that is the case only with the initiated, and those aren't the people we have to worry about.

 

I like having pockets for everything - cell phone, glasses case, dog leash, Kindle, extra mags and the extra benefit of a long cover garment that allows easy access. While I jokingly call mine my "shoot-me-first" vest, they are great utilitarian garments.

 

JMO/YMMV

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[tuktuk 16]

copy that. i see what you guys are saying. i guess for me, personally, tactical vest is something like PIC1 or PIC2 or PIC3

since i never really owned one, i dont know if those kind are really useful or not. i dont see myself using sometin like this in my lifetime (hopefully), however ...... 8)

[Krdshrk 3,877]

It all depends on what you want to do. A battle belt with MOLLE loops may be best for you - you can put on pretty much whatever pouches you want/need.

[FFDP82 4]

1: Keep it light. If you can't run, kneel, squat, and walk around in it for a couple hours, all you have is a mall ninja costume.

2: I see a lot of them have pistols on them, I would say don't bother. If things are so bad you need to wear a "war vest", then a pistol isn't going to be very useful.

3: Look up airsoft forums. I'm not a fan of airsoft, but those guys do run around in the woods and play hard with their gear.

 

4: "Tactical Vests" are fun to play dress up with or play around with at the range, but if you're truly concerned with emergency preparations, buy a nice backpack or rucksack and fill it with lots of stuff useful to you in an emergency. Mad Max fantasies are fun but in a real crisis there are things that will be a lot more important to have than guns and ammo, like food, water, first aid, clean socks, gloves, etc.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Pistols on a vest are a waste of space, yes. Unless you're not using that space. I prefer to keep a pistol holstered at my hip.

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

I rock my old ALICE 782 gear

[bbk 188]

Pistols on the vest aren't necessarily a "bad" idea, or at least I'll trust the judgment of professionals I've met who did bad things to bad people (I've never run a pistol on my vest so I can't talk from experience). The main reason they would run that configuration some times was because they were going to be in confined spaces (notably vehicle and vehicle dismounting), and running a drop leg was not an option (nor could they run a shoulder or belt holster as those would interfere with other essentials). I agree with most of the notions that putting a holster on the vest isn't the best option-- but, again, it goes back to mission specifics. I personally wouldn't run a vest mounted holster for safety reasons. Not that it could cause any more problems-- but the NDs I've heard of are far more devastating than NDs when drawing from the hip or leg.

 

2: I see a lot of them have pistols on them, I would say don't bother. If things are so bad you need to wear a "war vest", then a pistol isn't going to be very useful.

As for that comment, that gives me the impression you might not have experience with the application of these ideas. Sure, long guns/rifles are a primary, but a pistol tends to be the life line. I can say from experience that a lot of times in MOUT situations, the SOP I was familiar with stated to use handguns and not long guns. When behind the wire, when rifles and PCs could be set aside, a pistol was still strapped on somewhere (had to be).

 

I agree with the rest you've said though, about keeping it light. I also agree that a person is better off thinking about a sort of pack for the essentials instead of a rig.

[FFDP82 4]

As for that comment, that gives me the impression you might not have experience with the application of these ideas.

 

You are correct, I don't

 

Thank you for the info.

[njpilot 671]

anyone have an opinion on this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Law-Enforcement-SWAT-Vest/dp/B001BR1O74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288145004&sr=8-1

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Well by looking at the customer added images... Mall ninja.. lol.

 

Vests like that tend to be very hot. That one doesn't look adjustable either.

[FFDP82 4]

Yeah, that one is screaming ninja....

 

You want one that that is very light, and preferably "blank" with MOLLE webs to add pouches as you desire.

[specopsscout 26]

Hey Brother,

The vests you referenced in your posts are an older generation of load bearing equipment. I had Blackwater make me one years ago(like twenty) when they were first starting out, and all their work was custom stuff made in Va, as I recall. It worked well, but comparing it to more modern designs is a little reaching. Whether you choose to go with a plate carrier type of set up so that you can include body armor, or a load bearing equipment set up for weight reduction and ventilation, modularity is really the key now, or as has already been mentioned, mission specific. My personal vest of choice is an ESSTAC LBB(Load Bearing Boar). It's a front opening load bearing set up with integrated hydration carrier/mini day pack, and eight magazine pouches. The pouches can be changed between weapon systems, so that you can use the same set up with an AR15 or AR10. It's covered with external PALs for integrating additional pouches, and it comes in the best camouflage pattern to date, Multicam .

 

The reason folks have moved away from subloads, meaning things worn around the hips and legs, really started several years ago, with a British study. It was determined at the time that their soldiers performed substantially better, both in the areas of endurance and agility when the legs and hips were left unencumbered. Current trends and experience have reinforced the findings. Moving everything up onto the torso adds a small amount of additional protection against injury to that area as well. I had my pistol mounted to my vest twenty years ago, and know of many who have found the virtues to doing the same. The old theory was to keep your pistol and knife on your first line(you belt). That way, in a worst case scenario, you could dump your second line(load bearing equipment) to escape and evade faster, while still having them. Unfortunately dumping your gear also dumps your gear, making E&E more difficult, as you'll lose survival food and water, comms, first aid, ect. when you really need it most. It's really not too difficult to move a holstered pistol from a LBE set up to your belt. In the old days, we used to wear a flat pancake style nylon holster for the purpose. It collapsed when empty and could be used to carry the pistol when you dropped the rest of your gear. Nowadays, with set ups like the Safariland QLS system, it's much easier to remove the holster from it's mounting point on your vest, to the mounting point on your belt...Just some food for thought...

I hope this helps...

Respectfully,

Harry

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Nice info there. Good to know there's another big fan of Multicam here on the forums

[bbk 188]

Dumping gear is still an issue, especially in current operations that involve a lot of roadside work and air support. Because of this, a lot of manufacturers are coming up with "truck" bags that are specifically catered to hanging somewhere in a vehicle (or static location too), that can be grabbed quickly even if the primary is lost. The specific one I'm thinking of right now I can't seem to remember who manufacturers... but a more streamlined one is made by SOTech: http://www.skdtac.com/S_O_Tech_Go_Bag_p/sot.502.htm This is more of a "GO bag" but it can be utilized in the same manner (plus GO bags tend to be used in the same manner as truck bags).

 

As for that rig you linked, that's the exact one I've been wanting, Harry. Seems really streamlined with the integral, individual mag pouches; plenty of molle space for GPs, map/intel, IFAK if need be, or more ammo; split-front is awesome and I think is almost integral now with how weighted rigs can get; and plenty of space on the back for a molle attaching bag or hydration pack (which I also think is integral). Also comes in two different models that can hold 6/8mags.

[specopsscout 26]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the kudos and for the additional information. As to Multicam, yeah, I've been a fan since it first came out, and long before it was considered cool. I wore it to a Sniper course about five or six years ago. During the stalking phase when questioned by another student as to which of the several students ghillies they thought offered the best camoflage, the instructors both instantly pointed to me, I had intentionally gone sans ghillie, and stated that they felt the Multicam cammies and cover I was wearing was superior to the handmade and custom suits most of the other students were wearing...Most weren't familiar with Multicam at the time and thought I was wearing some kind of hunting camoflage.

Respectfully,

Harry

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yeah - My airsoft team uses Multicam as the primary uniform. Back before it became popular it was hard to get - we had to buy the fabric straight from Crye and make the BDUs and tac gear ourselves! This was back in '06-07'ish.

[bbk 188]

Most weren't familiar with Multicam at the time and thought I was wearing some kind of hunting camoflage.

 

But it is a hunting camouflage, its just called Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage by our hunters

[specopsscout 26]

[T1Defense 17]

Having used several types of vests, you cant go wrong with Eagle, Paraclete or Diamondback.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MOLLE042-1.html

 

just picked this up a few weeks ago and works great, very easy to run and gun with

[Ray Ray 3,566]

 

10 pistol mags is about the limit. This would be strictly a Cx4/Px4 set up or running with a Glock!

[Shane45 807]

I wanted to keep it really simple. This is the route I took. Its a Mini Chest rig from Maxpedition.

 

[bbk 188]

I'm actually totally sold on running a "battle belt" now that I've put one together. I haven't run it with a rifle yet, but I think it would be a far more natural than running it with a pistol. Mine is set up for two pistol mags, two rifle mags, a holster, dump pouch, and admin pouch... a good amount of weight, but there is no shifting around as long as I make it snug. And the most surprising part is that even though I'm easily wearing 8-10+ pounds on my waist, I hardly feel it. Even with just five pounds on my chest, I can feel the stress on my shoulders, back, and neck. It also easily comes on/off, and looks a lot more low-key then a chest rig or PC.

 

If need be though, I run a PC that carries 6+ rifle mags, and some more pouches-- to include a hydration carrier. Both systems are optimized to run with each other; the belt being first line, and the carrier being second.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Here's some of my gear:

 

My Krukspec Multicam Plate Carrier:

3x Double AR mag pouches, Generic holster, General utility pouch, Dump pouch, Hydration carrier in the back

 

Original SOE CQB Vest:

4x Double AR Mag pouches, 4x Pistol mag pouches, Utility upper, Buttpouch

 

CHICOM rig:

Lightweight rig - can hold 3x AK mags, 4 grenades

 

And when I want to swap out and use the battle belt, here's how I put it on:

3x Double AR mag pouches, HSGI Gas Mask/Spent Mag pouch, Utility pouch, and I can toss on that holster as well.

[EchoMirage 137]

http://www.cheaperth...MOLLE042-1.html

 

just picked this up a few weeks ago and works great, very easy to run and gun with

 

just practice more. you lost quite a bit of time on reloads on the proving grounds