Police lay offs

[vjf915 456]

when "plea bargaining" is no longer permitted for heinous acts

I cant wait for the day if this ever happens. Dude gives up other members of his gang and several leaders, thinking he will get off easy......then they look at him and just say "SIKE!!! You're still going away for life."

[crackaloon 15]

Over and above everything is the fact that the very last thing that Camden or Newark should be cutting is police officers.

+1 to KpdPipes

....and the answer is vote with the knowledge that it isn't Chris Christie screwing things up, it's the guys who have been in office for years without doing anything about the real problems. These Bozo's are cutting essentials while keeping all the fat and garbage just to say I told ya so.

[hopper 36]

Btw Camden cops dint make alot of money

Gotta disagree there , i know 3 camden cops and they all make over 6 figures with OT , You gotta remember the Aqarium , all the concerts at the susqehana bank center and the Cmden River sharks baseball stadium all require lots of protection ......... Now imagine going to anyone of those events after the layoffs = not safe !!!!!!!!!

[tommy3rd 132]

Now mind you when I say you I dont mean you in paticular. I mean public workers.

Back in the mid 90s, the public employee retirement system was in great shape. It had enough money to sustain itself. All it took is for one Governor to see that and start raiding it to pay for other stuff to balance the budget. Then the others followed, without ever putting any extra money in. Now there's a deficit. That is the reason this retirement system is in bad shape now.

Corzine tried to put money back in and look where it got him. Blame the politicians who decided that raiding the funds was a good idea. Then again, those same politicians got voted in by us, so I guess we are all to blame.

[CageFighter 236]

its not really the cops, they know how to play the game. its the unions that dont wanna bend & the cops get fired because of it. the FairlLawn PD was asked for 4 days furlough while the rest of the town employess get 21. the union said no, so they laid off 4 cops. again, so much for brotherhood.

[Damjan 73]

Here is a good read posted by a police officer as a comment , very realistic

About the Police and Fire Retirement Fund (PFRS), and more specifically, how it has been mishandled by some of our elected officials.

The truth should come out, and the public has a right to know how we got to where we are today.Long before I became a police officer, the state of New Jersey enacted a law which required police officers and firemen to contribute a certain percentage of their salary into the state’s “secure” pension fund. Throughout my 22 year career, I have paid 8.5 percent of my salary, as mandated by law, into this fund every pay period.I was not given the option to place my 8.5 percent in an IRA or other investment fund. Every pay check since I was 25 years old had the 8.5 percent taken out of my pay and placed into the PFRS with the promise that the money would be there when I retired. By law, towns and municipalities were required to match that 8.5 percent.By the time Gov. Christine Todd Whitman took office, there was over $100 billion in the fund. This meant that at the current rate of retirements, pension costs for police officers and firemen were funded at 104 percent, well into the future. This was a prudent and financially responsible plan that worked, and it provided security for the families of these men and woman who risked their lives every day serving and protecting the citizens of New Jersey.In no way was it heavily over funded or excessive. It covered the costs of promised retirements with a small cushion left over. It was at this time that Whitman stepped in. Gov. Whitman recognized the billions of dollars in our “secure” and “separate” pension fund, and she proceeded to raid that fund. Unknown and unannounced to the public, monies were indiscriminately withdrawn from the PFRS and used to pay for Whitman’s tax cuts and to balance the state budget.Billions of dollars were taken, and to make matters worse, the Whitman administration passed a law allowing towns and municipalities to no longer contribute to the fund. Over $3 billion in contributions were skipped over the next eight years, while the individual police officers and firefighters continued to have their 8.5 percent contribution taken from them and placed into the PFRS.The state gambled for years, relying heavily on the returns from the stock market to cover the missing funds. Politicians misspoke on the campaign trail, touting the virtues of how their financial genius was able to balance their state and local budgets, and the public was lulled into a sense of false financial security.But the small print in Whitman’s bill was ignored. The funds they failed to contribute would have to be made up at a later date. The pension reprieve was temporary and their contributions would have to be paid back, just like any other loan. It was quietly suggested by the Whitman administration that towns set these contributions aside for when the state called to make good on them. It appears most towns and municipalities failed to heed this advice.Governors (Donald) DiFrancesco, (James) McGreevy, and (Richard) Codey continued this trend, and all failed to call the towns and municipalities on their “loan” while the PFRS fund continued to dwindle down close to $66 billion. They remained silent. To bring this to light at this point would certainly mean political suicide, knowing that towns and municipalities would have to raise taxes to make up for their error in financial judgment and planning.It wasn’t until Gov. Jon Corzine took office that this trend was stopped, but unfortunately, the damage was done. Gov. Corzine made the call the governors before him were afraid to make. He advised the towns and municipalities that it was time to pay back the monies the towns had been given a temporary reprieve on. And the media jumped on this, printing bold headlines “Towns going broke over police and fire pensions.”This attention grabbing and misleading headline made it appear that your police and firemen were bilking the taxpayers dry, when the truth is totally the opposite. The politicians bilked your police officers and firemen dry and in the long run, the tax payers of New Jersey.Towns and municipalities knew they were going to have to pay this money back and for them to insinuate otherwise is simply not true. Realizing the gravity of the situation, a new bill was introduced and passed into law. This allowed the towns to pay back the loan given to them by their public employees in increments; starting at 20 percent, 40 percent, 60 percent, 80 percent, and finally 100 percent each proceeding year.Towns and municipalities continue to act as if they have been caught unaware and shocked by this entire process. The public is being told that payments for police and fire pensions are doubling, tripling and quadrupling and that the public employee system is out of control. What the public needs to know is that they are the victims of a mounting debt that was created by the Whitman administration and compounded by those following her tenure.To blame your public employees for the abuses of the pension system is ludicrous at best, especially when our elected officials are the ones responsible for raiding the fund and then enacting the legislation on how and when to pay it back. Gov. Jim Florio recognized the financial hardship facing the state of New Jersey and proceeded to raise the state sales tax to 7 percent. This helped spell political suicide for him, and Gov. Whitman was not going to make the same mistake. She repealed the 7 percent, dropping it back down to the 6 percent, knowing full well this money would have to come from somewhere.Her solution was to raid the Police and Fire Pension System, allowing her to balance the state budget and give the false appearance that all was fiscally sound under her watch.Our current governor, facing the same financial crisis of those going before him, has chosen a similar route, but one with a more vilifying tone. He has again found the same victim: Your public employees. When asked about the pension situation in the state of New Jersey, Gov. Chris Christie replied “I wasn’t going to put $3 billion into a failing pension system. We need pension reform. I passed some already for new hirees, and this fall we are going after the current employees and pension reform and benefits because we are broke.”Nowhere does he mention how the public employees had already bailed out this state years before, and now he is focused on “going after” the current employees to fix a mess created and compounded by politicians. To say otherwise for him would be political suicide should he aspire to higher political office, and as most of those before him, he is not about to risk his future. Rather, he would gamble on the future of those men and woman and their families who have served this state with honor and integrity.The principals of the pension system are not broken Mr. Governor. What is broken is the manner in which the politicians have treated and abused it. Yes, the system is failing now, but not because of your police officers and firemen. As of 2009, the pension fund should have assets of $112 billion to meet its obligations, yet it is currently sitting at $66 billion.It is the largest unfunded liability in the country. New Jersey is the first state ever to be charged with fraud by the Securities and Exchange Commission, and Gov. Christie, strangely, has no comment on this. Yet he continues his rhetoric on the evils done to us by our police officers and firemen, ignoring the truth and lambasting and vilifying us at every turn.As the saying goes, “Politics has no shame when it comes to preserving your place in office. Why let the truth get in between a good, attention grabbing headline?”The system is on the brink of collapse and continued arrogance and mudslinging will not fix it. The truth is what it is Mr. Governor, and there is no getting around that. Politicians put us in this mess for their own political gain, not our public employees, as you would like the public to believe. You know this and need to stop ignoring the facts. How we deal with it from here is the measure of each of our character and integrity. I know the public is smart enough to recognize this and I hope that you are too. Long after you are gone, we will still be here, protecting and serving as we always have. In the end, all we have left is our name. Let’s hope yours is remembered for you’re integrity and not for what you have slung so far in your race for political aspiration. I challenge you to do the right thing, as so many police officers and firemen strive to do every day for their families and the citizens of New Jersey.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Cops make good money but aren't rolling in cash. Yeah if they work ot they get really good money but aren't people supposed to when they work ot. You can't under pay cops because then people wont want to be cops and poor cops could become crooked cops. Most cops now have student loans to pay due to the fact college is a requirement in most departments. Plus most put their kids in private school for the fact their kids shouldn't have to pay if they lock up another kids dad. Their is alot of things to take into consideration with their salary. How about the fact Camden cops have to live in Camden. Hell you can't even apply unless you live there. I wouldnt live in Camden for $100,000 a year. Let alone run around the streets with bullets flying by my head.

[BRN169 6]

At least in camden you could turn the BB New Jersey's 16" guns towards the shore and blast away.

 

You could follow that up with swinging them west and cutting that cancerous growth off of Pennsylvania they call Philadelphia... That would straighten that state out for at least a few generations.

[The_Matrix 105]

You could follow that up with swinging them west and cutting that cancerous growth off of Pennsylvania they call Philadelphia... That would straighten that state out for at least a few generations.

 

Funny...but true.

[matty 810]

Cycles. Gov't employment goodness/badness always lags behind private sector, in good & bad times. Tax collections & budgeting cause a year or two lag or more from when the economy tanks and private sector folks are unemployed in droves, to when the lack of revenue catches up and public sector has to take a hit. The 91-94 recession was not as bad as this one, so there was less pain felt in the public sector and the minor correction of 01-02 (internet bubble) didn't affect them at all. The last time I recall this much serious talk and real action at keeping a lid on spending was in the mid-late 70s. Eventually boom times returned and tax money rolled in and public employment went back up again, as seen in the mid-80s and 95-now. It is unfortunate that many cops that are lower paid are losing their jobs, but seniority has always ruled. The world will not end, and crime will not get out of control. It sucks for them, and its always better to have more cops on the job in places like Camden, but there's so many people out of work long term in this state. And of course the stellar leadership and administration of the geniuses that run the NJ cities and state. I hope the cops let go are rehired and cuts can be made via attrition, it increases workload, but a lotta folks have had to put up with lower staffing at their jobs and having to do more work to stay employed--

[GoNRA 12]

I think cops should start at 50k and max out around 120k. But I think there has to be a balance, too many cops and you have a police state, to little cops and crime runs rampant. I wouldn't mind them paying a few cops a high salary, rather than paying a lot of cops a high salary. Like Dennis from 101.5 said you can't go 3-5 miles without seeing a cop somewhere. Especially in the nice towns that don't need a huge police force, there is not much going on most of the time and it can be a waste of resources. If they would get rid of jurisdictions or make the towns have combined services and police forces (kinda like Manalapan and Eatontown) I can see it saving resources.

 

about the pension issue, the state needs to figure out a way to raise money for the pension fund, maybe the red light camera's will help with this, even though I hate them lol. Feel like big brother is watching me, but that's besides the point. I've heard the other side of this argument on this topic and it opened my eyes. Think about working a stressful job, and seeing the crap of society day in and day out, not to mention all the other crap you see. I can see this job being mentally and physically tiring on anyone, and on top of that they have to think about what they will do when retirement rolls around. Social Security is in the shi**er, the pention system is horribly dwindled, and now they are reduced to crap for raises. Tell me... where is the future in this type of work? where do you go from here on out?

 

Think if your starting a job at 35 a year and can only get 2 percent increases a year you wouldn't take the job (well unless your cartman from southpark, "respect my authoritai" ). There isn't a future in it, and all of those who were expecting to get a job in this career have thus either turned away or are regretting the decision or going through with it regardless.

 

The only way I can see this changing is if you can make officers exempt from the 2 percent increases, and put new hires on a 401k plan, I think all public employee's should be on a 401k plan. Give them the 8.5 percent in their paychecks and let them decide how they will save their money. If the state needs to makeup some of the money to pay what they took in the pension, they should find a way to cut back programs to help fund the pension for the remaining pension participants.

[karcirate 1]

You might be living in a police state if...

 

You insult the President or other official to his face and you can get away with it, but when you do the same to a police officer, it is likely you will have the crap beaten out of you.

 

 

(Thanks Jeff.)

[vjf915 456]

I could guarantee you that 99.99% of cops would not kick your a** for insulting them to their face.

[tsafa 2]

I can't say I have too much sympathy. While I respect the work the Police do in risking their lives to fight real crime... I have a complete and utter lack of respect when I see that their main job is to issue tickets. It is clearly obvious that a large percentage of the police is dedicated 100% to revenue raising. The is not Policing... that is Tax Collecting. Every one of those tax collectors should be fired in every town, every city and every state. We don't need more tax collectors. What we need is police that will help keep American Communities safe from real crime. They should keep only the minimum amount of police necessary to fight real crime. I can't wait till the axe starts falling on State Troopers.

 

Beyond that... people should take an interest in protecting themselves, rather then relying on others to protect them. This seems like a good time to push for more gun rights in NJ. More armed citizens means less of a need for Police/Tax Collectors. Instead of dialing 911 to report a burglary... people can learn to dial 1911.

 

It has been my opinion... through the last four recessions... That Recessions are not the Sickness... They are the Cure.

[vjf915 456]

I can't say I have too much sympathy. While I respect the work the Police do in risking their lives to fight real crime... I have a complete and utter lack of respect when I see that their main job is to issue tickets. It is clearly obvious that a large percentage of the police is dedicated 100% to revenue raising. The is not Policing... that is Tax Collecting. Every one of those tax collectors should be fired in every town, every city and every state. We don't need more tax collectors. What we need is police that will help keep American Communities safe from real crime. They should keep only the minimum amount of police necessary to fight real crime. I can't wait till the axe starts falling on State Troopers.

Roughly 60% of police officers run patrol....so yes you are right, the majority of police officers run patrol. But patrol does NOT mean tax collectors. There are a lot of other things that patrol does. The mere presence of patrol officers normally deters more serious crime from happening, but this only works if the police are RIGHT THERE. But also, in the act of patrolling, they catch bigger criminals. Not too long ago, NY adopted a zero tolerance policy, and worked from the ground up. They started catching people jumping the train station terminals, and found out that a lot of people doing that were committing much larger crimes....even as bad as rapists and murderers. The biggest benefit of patrol officers is NOT catching people doing 33 in a 25, even though thats what mostly happens. Zero tolerance, from the ground up B)

 

Beyond that... people should take an interest in protecting themselves, rather then relying on others to protect them. This seems like a good time to push for more gun rights in NJ. More armed citizens means less of a need for Police/Tax Collectors. Instead of dialing 911 to report a burglary... people learn to dial 1911.

This is something I can really get behind. If the state can no longer fund to have as many officers, crime is BOUND to go up. Even if this was not the case, I would still rather carry than dial 911. But this is a better time to push the issue and use this as more of a reason. Not only should it be a constitutional right, but now we NEED it to protect ourselves.

[alowerlevel 77]

<----- lives ~5min from Camden

 

 

Time to stock up on more guns and even more ammo

[CageFighter 236]

I think cops should start at 50k and max out around 120k.

 

you are being very generous. i would start them in the 40s and top them out at 75-80k.

maybe the higher brass should get more, but i dont think the Chief should get over $125k.

 

PS: our soldiers risk ALOT more for 1/4 of the pay the cops are getting (even private security), our troops on the front lines deserve more.

[vjf915 456]

To think that police officers make too much money at their current pay grade is foolish compared to what others make. Their benefit to society is MUCH higher than many of these corporate America jerkoffs who make millions upon millions every year. I do not think that cops should make millions a year, but I think that their pay and pension is relatively fair for what they contribute to society. Anybody who thinks otherwise should step into the environment for a little bit.....I bet their tune would change.

[GRIZ 3,369]

If they would get rid of jurisdictions or make the towns have combined services and police forces (kinda like Manalapan and Eatontown) I can see it saving resources.

 

Regional police departments is not a new idea. It goes back to at least the early 70s that I know of. The problem is who determines how departments get regionalized? As it stands only if two or more towns agree to it can it be done.

 

I have a complete and utter lack of respect when I see that their main job is to issue tickets.

 

In some low crime towns this may be true. Don't think they are doing it for local revenue as (last I knew anyway) fines from all tickets written under Title 39 (MV law) goes to the state not the town. Maybe someone else can verify this. Larger departments have traffic bureaus whose job it is to write tickets. This frees up the patrol division to patrol and answer calls and not let everyone do whatver they want in a motor vehicle.

 

Towns generally have police departments sized to their crime rate and/or size, either of which dictate larger police departments.

[vjf915 456]

Not sure who it was that said they lack respect for cops who write tickets. Two huge issues with that. First, how often do you see in the news an officer getting shot because he pulled some scum of the earth crackhead over? Just because they are writing tickets does NOT mean it's a safe job. Second, lets see how much you disrespect cops who pull people over for disobeying the law if one of your family members got killed by someone who was speeding down the street, or driving under the influence......yea they are SO unnecessary

 

And does this mean that you don't respect our soldiers who serve the same role overseas? No they don't "pull" people over in cop cars. But those who actually patrol the areas they are stationed in, or man the checkpoint stations. They have the same role, just a hell of a lot more dangerous. The same function is performed though.

 

Whoever said they have a lack of respect for patrol officers has an even larger lack of intelligence.

[matt6669 71]