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Bill S2190: Adjustments to NJ FID Card

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Senators,

 

Shortly you will hear S2190. I recommend that you review the recent US Supreme Court rulings McDonald vs Chicago and DC v Heller prior to implementing yet another gun law which will eventually be ruled unconstitutional after a long and expensive day in court for NJ.

 

The laws already prevent law abiding citizens from owning and carrying guns. Please focus instead on addressing criminals, their possession and use of illegal firearms. With the recent layoffs of Police throughout the state, further impeding the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves is not in anyone's best interests.

 

Gun laws do not prevent criminals from using illegal firearms. Gun laws prevent law abiding citizens from using legal firearms.

 

Respectfully,

 

Unconstitutionality hasn't stopped NJ before. Plus NJ doesn't recognize Heller or McDonald

 

And the rule of thumb is, all is fine until the Court says otherwise, and the people who don't like it, need to cough up the $$ to challenge it......

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If you already have a FID then will you already be Grandfathered in so we dont have to go through all the bullsh*t again or do have to Re-apply all over gain ???

I didn't see anything in the Bill that addresses that question.

 

I guess we'll find out if and when this moves forward.

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I didn't see anything in the Bill that addresses that question.

 

I guess we'll find out if and when this moves forward.

Yeah cause if the 800,000 or so gun owners have to re-apply then get ready for a Nightmare of waiting !!!!!

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Yeah cause if the 800,000 or so gun owners have to re-apply then get ready for a Nightmare of waiting !!!!!

The good (and bad) news is that 750,000 of them don't know about anything that goes on, and couldn't care less. That's our biggest problem as a group.

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The good (and bad) news is that 750,000 of them don't know about anything that goes on, and couldn't care less. That's our biggest problem as a group.

 

Another problem is that at shooter's meetings (competitive matches), 2A issues are not very welcome in NJ, when I go to PA, time is always given to people with 2A issues/concerns.

 

And gun shops aren't tied into anything either. When the OGaM issue was big, everybody knew the original bill as is, would affect the gun shops. But the gun shops knew nothing of this.

 

I'm not a member yet of any NJ's gun clubs, but how are they at getting information out?

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Another problem is that at shooter's meetings (competitive matches), 2A issues are not very welcome in NJ, when I go to PA, time is always given to people with 2A issues/concerns.

 

And gun shops aren't tied into anything either. When the OGaM issue was big, everybody knew the original bill as is, would affect the gun shops. But the gun shops knew nothing of this.

 

I'm not a member yet of any NJ's gun clubs, but how are they at getting information out?

As far as I know, most don't. There's the ANJRPC newsletter, but that's mostly just to pat themselves on the back. I've never seen any notices about pending legislation or other issues posted at any club or gun shop that I've been to. I can sort of understand the ranges not really caring, their membership isn't really that interested in legislation until after it affects them, but I always thought that the shops have a larger stake in what's going on, and should be more on top of current firearms issues in NJ.

 

Maybe they've just been beaten into submission, and nothing the state does that affects their ability to earn a living surprises them any more.

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These Politicians are putting the cart before the horse. The whole system needs revamping. This Bill does nothing but confuse and bogg down the system. It needs to be made simple.

 

EX: $XXX for a new digital FPID card for handguns AND long guns. Person walks into gun shop, picks out what he wants, fills out 4473, dealer does FREE NICS check, dealer fills out new combined P2P/COE, person walks out with firearm.

 

And dare I say it, all transfers must go through a dealer. :icon_e_biggrin:

 

 

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There are a hundred issues it doesn't "fix".

 

All it really is is a paperwork and manpower reduction act, and for as much (or little) as it addresses other problems, it's better than what we have now.

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this is terrible. I HATE this state so friggin much!!!! It makes me want to throw up that people in this thread are posting "well that's not to bad" This is friggin terrible. All the laws here are friggin terrible. The only laws that should be met with "well that's not to bad' are laws repealing the unconstitutional laws already in place here. The only way they would be considered "Wow that's great" is if the law included rounding up the politicians that voted for the unconstitutional gun laws in the first place and hanging them in public. The politicians that are for these laws need not to just go away or be voted out they are traitors to the U.S. Constitution and should be treated as such.

 

++++++1

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I don't really think that saying the politicians need to be hanged is a great idea on a PUBLIC FORUM. Really, next time you have a thought like that....just click the back button.

 

 

EX: $XXX for a new digital FPID card for handguns AND long guns. Person walks into gun shop, picks out what he wants, fills out 4473, dealer does FREE NICS check, dealer fills out new combined P2P/COE, person walks out with firearm.

 

I see three digits there.....I don't like that. I do however like everything else in this post :icon_e_biggrin:

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The thing with this bill is that it only benefits THE STATE OF NJ , lessens their paperwork and creates more revenue , somehow i dont see it really benefiting us at all ... and then again why would the dems in control want too !!

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Another problem is that at shooter's meetings (competitive matches), 2A issues are not very welcome in NJ, when I go to PA, time is always given to people with 2A issues/concerns.

 

And gun shops aren't tied into anything either. When the OGaM issue was big, everybody knew the original bill as is, would affect the gun shops. But the gun shops knew nothing of this.

 

I'm not a member yet of any NJ's gun clubs, but how are they at getting information out?

 

Depends on the individual Clubs. my CAS club usually mentions anything that bis going on during the pre-match safety briefing..but then again for a group that in many cases shoots a pretty specific type of firearm, i dont EVER recall any CAS shooter playing the FUDD game. Wish i could say the same for some Hunters, Clays/Skeet, or smallbore folks. :icon_neutral:

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The thing with this bill is that it only benefits THE STATE OF NJ , lessens their paperwork and creates more revenue , somehow i dont see it really benefiting us at all ... and then again why would the dems in control want too !!

 

If you think this then you obviously have not had to wait 6-8 months for pistol permits then :p hahahaha

 

Once you have a Handgun Purchasers ID Card, it solves the following issues according to the bill:

 

1. No more waiting 6-8 months for PDs to issue permits

2. No more contacting of your place of work or other bs certain PDs do

3. No more we lost your references' questionaire excuse

4. No more having to bother the people mentioned in number 3

5. No more the NJSP did not send the background check results back

6. No more we did not get your mental health results back

7. No more permit expiration after 90 days

7. No more having to go to the PD to get permits extended another 90 days

 

And this is because the permits will not be required for regular gun purchases from an FFL if you have the card.

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If you think this then you obviously have not had to wait 6-8 months for pistol permits then :p hahahaha

 

Once you have a Handgun Purchasers ID Card, it solves the following issues according to the bill:

 

1. No more waiting 6-8 months for PDs to issue permits

2. No more contacting of your place of work or other bs certain PDs do

3. No more we lost your references' questionaire excuse

4. No more having to bother the people mentioned in number 3

5. No more the NJSP did not send the background check results back

6. No more we did not get your mental health results back

7. No more permit expiration after 90 days

7. No more having to go to the PD to get permits extended another 90 days

 

And this is because the permits will not be required for regular gun purchases from an FFL if you have the card.

 

Pound for pound, items 2, 3, 4, 5 , and 6 will still be in effect, since everybody will still need to apply for the Handgun Purchaser ID card.

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Is it ideal? No. Is it anywhere near where I want NJ gun laws to be? No. Is it still unconstitutional? Yes. Is it better than what we have now? Definitely. If this bill does pass, I will be applying for this card the next available day.

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but they will be required for a FTF transaction, so I will have to continue to apply for PP's just as regularly so I have them on hand in case a deal comes up.

 

Right but this is only for Face to Face purchases. The process is not changing for those so this bill really does not have an effect on the current way you do this anyway.

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Pound for pound, items 2, 3, 4, 5 , and 6 will still be in effect, since everybody will still need to apply for the Handgun Purchaser ID card.

 

Right but this is only *ONCE* every 5 years (2 years minimum) not every time you want permits.

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More smoke & mirrors that will go nowhere, courtesy of our elected dopes. Likely doing this to attempt to get some cred before redistricting, methinks---if the census also affects NJ state legislative gerrymandering

 

 

Plus *One Gun a Month* Madden is up for re-election this year, and he's supposedly vulnerable. And on a side note, I'm donating time and money to his opponent, unless that person is a chump, then I'm just gonna buy more guns. :icon_e_biggrin:

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BTW - the superindendent sets the expiration date, between 2 and 6 years, with the fee prorated it it isn't a 60-month term.

To facilitate a balance in the administrative processing and issuing of handgun purchaser identification cards, the superintendent may issue an initial handgun purchaser identification card which expires on a date fixed by him, provided that the card shall not expire on a date less than two years or more than six years from the date of issuance. The fee for an initial card having an expiration date of other than 60 months shall be fixed proportionally by the superintendent.

 

IT also does not repeal OGaM for HPP holders. The exclusion in the "new" section says that "except for OGaM" there no limitations on the number of firearms purchased

 

Except as otherwise prescribed in subsection i. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, there shall be no limit on the number of handguns a handgun purchaser identification cardholder may purchase from a retail dealer licensed pursuant to N.J.S.2C:58-2.

 

Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30- day period, regardless of whether that firearm is purchased or delivered to the holder of a permit to purchase a handgun or a handgun purchaser identification card

 

Now PDF now refers to CLEO, not CoP.

 

Would almost certainly require the HPP to be laminated by the issuing authority. OTOH, the photgraphy is to be done "at a time and place" of the superindendent's discretion.

 

Looks like it's a half-step down the road of eliminating purchase permits, which are fairly clearly unconstitutional, with a 5-year ID card which may or may not be ruled unconstitutional when the case hits SCOTUS.

 

It is a loosening of the process, nothing more, but nothing less, either.

 

Who benefits if it passes in substantially similar form? FFLs who sell handguns. Handgun purchasers who live in a town with an anti-gun CLEO. Rep Madden (iffy). Gov Christie if he signs. The NJSP from a paperwork angle. The state from a financial angle.

 

Who loses: anyone who wants no permits after a SCOTUS challenge IFF the SCOTUS rules on one but not the other. They might decide that NICS at Point of Sale is enough and anything more is an infringement; but more likely they'll move incrementally.

 

Overall, long-term neutral, short-term positive. In the metagame - extremely positive - this is a rearguard action by the enemies of freedom.

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